[Steve.Ledger]

Pentax said, that they are not interested in video...

I'd like you to provide poof that 'PENTAX' actually said this.
What they actually said [PF Interview at Photokina 2014] was they are working on the problem with noise generated by the mechanical SR during video and when asked about RAW/Uncompressed video they said that they do value the importance of video recording though their priorities are with still images before RAW/Uncompressed video capability.. All DSLR manufacturers prioritise for stills first but remember, PANASONIC, SONY and CANON all have many years background of professional and consumer video camera/camcorder manufacturing so they have a ton more experience and prior R&D to draw from for their DSLRs and DSLMs. Pentax do not.

Remember, they are after a new younger market [also said in that interview], the demographic previously using smartphones for photos and video. Hence the KS-1.
They don't give a fig about a few aging luddites who keep saying 'DSLRs aren't for video - buy a video camera' .. They know their business.

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Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 12-26-2014 at 12:51 PM.

[Aksel]

...
They don't give a fig about a few aging luddites who keep saying 'DSLRs aren't for video - buy a video camera' .. They know their business.

Fully agree with you, but...

Yes, they know THEIR business. They know, that right now they can't solve all problems regarding video. (of course, if they can do it, then they will also do so - but right now, they can't)

And this is the key (at least for me) how to understand that answer in Photokina:

#14. Raw/uncompressed video is being offered in an increasing number of HDSLRs. Is this something you have explored?

We do value the importance of video recording, but at the same time, as the brand Pentax/Ricoh, we value the still image rather than videos. So at this moment, we are not giving priority to this issue

This is said by a person of Japanese cultural environment - this is also important.

But there is also theother side of that story. You mentioned the KS-1 - what changes you can find (in video)? Or when comparing to other manufacturers sayings - whether they also say that "as the brand ... we value the still image rather than videos. So at this moment, we are not giving priority to this issue" . If they understand, that video is the problem for them.

This is very strong statement.

And this is confirmed by the PENTAX production compared to other manufacturers. Only in video (not only raw!) Pentax is fully behind others. If we assume that this is a reality (after the appearance of the K-3), then it should be, after all, that they do something in this direction. Unfortunately, the Pentax / Ricoh operates exactly according to what they have expressed directly - it's not a priority for us. Yes, they are interested in video, but this is not a priority for them.

While this is not a problem for me. For still images - there is Pentax for me. For video - other tools.

[Steve.Ledger]

Well you may read it how you like I suppose, I try not to read everything as a negative.. Saying stills are a priority doesn't automatically mean they don't care about video, it's just not their first concern [keeping myself alive is a priority but it doesn't mean I don't care about my cats! ]. Of course they care about video, they would loose sales if they didn't include it and means they stay in business. I know there's a dozen or so users of this and other forums who don 't care about video and that's a choice they've made but an awful lot more people including industry pros do care and care a heck of a lot. Just look how PiDicus Rex raves on about his K-01, he loves it and uses it a lot as a corporate/short client production tool.

The comment re the KS-1 was not in relation to video, it was in relation to their target customers and how they are designing cameras to attract this demographic.

[Aksel]

... I try not to read everything as a negative...
The comment re the KS-1 was not in relation to video, it was in relation to their target customers and how they are designing cameras to attract this demographic.

Video is also important to me.

About the "negative" readings. Don't know, but i think, that it is realistic. KS-1. You said, that this camera is for... For whom? If it should be directed to young people, then... i think that video is important for them.

SR in K-5IIs vs K-3, sensor-shift vs mechanical. In stills - it's OK, but in video the K-3's SR is not impovement. It is worse than mechanical SR (for video).

#13. Many users do not find electronic video stabilization to be satisfactory. Do you have plans to bring back sensor-shift video SR like in the K-5, or possibly a different type of stabilization? Was there a reason you moved away from mechanical video SR?

The sensor-shift SR is one of our advantages, even for videos, but at this time we have had difficulties solving the problem of sounds of shifting (noise during recording). So it might take time to get a real solution to avoid this problem, and then we will consider how to do it.

Yes, we know, that we have problems with it, but... " we value the still image rather than videos". Same story here.

But I'm not negative to Pentax. They gave me some good photography tools - I'm thankful to them for that. But I am not the owner of Ricoh Imaging Company, do not even have their payroll, and that's the reason, why I can be a realist about their production.

[Steve.Ledger]

You're repeating that which I already know, Aksel. Difference is, you're reading more 'Pentax in doomed' into the interview than I.
Cheer up

[kadajawi]

I think if Pentax hired someone with video background, even as an advisor, they could make huge improvements. They just don't know anything about video, and it shows. It's all about the specs.

Now... Do I want a dedicated video camera? No. Stills are a priority for me, and I don't want to carry 2 cameras, and swap them when I want to shoot something else. One camera and a switch/dial/button.

I do want them to improve the video functionality when possible, without hurting video. A couple of firmware related improvements, like SR and MPEG2.

A dedicated camcorder... They could do it, but the audience wouldn't be consumers. No AF etc.

[Steve.Ledger]

Now... Do I want a dedicated video camera? No. Stills are a priority for me, and I don't want to carry 2 cameras, and swap them when I want to shoot something else. One camera and a switch/dial/button.

Agree, and I really think a lot of the knockers are missing this point. The convenience alone is worth any minor disadvantages.
I have a pretty decent camcorder, but I rarely use it now because it's a pain to carry as well as a DSLR.

[PiDicus Rex]

Should Pentax try and build a K-mount camcorder?

No. They should just write decent firmware for their existing models, which have hardware that is more then capable of doing the job.

Even to the point of a different firmware for a 'Cine-Only' operation - Give the owner the chance to decide if they want a video priority camera instead of a stills priority.

---------- Post added 28-12-14 at 01:26 PM ----------

Just look how PiDicus Rex raves on about his K-01, he loves it and uses it a lot as a corporate/short client production tool.

Yeah, I know, obsessed much

---------- Post added 28-12-14 at 01:26 PM ----------

I think if Pentax hired someone with video background, even as an advisor, they could make huge improvements. They just don't know anything about video, and it shows. It's all about the specs.

ME !!!!!!

[Aksel]

I think if Pentax hired someone with video background, even as an advisor, they could make huge improvements. ...

This is the main question for me - why they are not interested how to improve their products. Why focus only on stills, when their cameras have video capability (and if it is important for them)? There are lot of people who can help them, if they just... see what has already been done. In the world there are lot of professionals who can help them. But there is only one question - why they are not interested in that...

Don't say to me, that it cost too much in declining market situation. This is not the reason. Not talking about new SR system's elaboration (hope, that they are working on that). But in fact, there are many software improvements that can be made too.

[LensBeginner]

Agree, and I really think a lot of the knockers are missing this point. The convenience alone is worth any minor disadvantages.
I have a pretty decent camcorder, but I rarely use it now because it's a pain to carry as well as a DSLR.

It depends on what you have to record... if you want to have a performance archive, then those 20-30' per video aren't enough.
For me it's an either...or situation, I would rarely need to carry both at the same time.

---------- Post added 12-28-14 at 12:00 PM ----------

No. They should just write decent firmware for their existing models, which have hardware that is more then capable of doing the job.

Even to the point of a different firmware for a 'Cine-Only' operation - Give the owner the chance to decide if they want a video priority camera instead of a stills priority.

I wish... point is... older (discontinued?) models don't increase revenues, new models do...
Independent groups are the only answer, but Pentax is not all that mainstream...

[kadajawi]

It depends on what you have to record... if you want to have a performance archive, then those 20-30' per video aren't enough.
For me it's an either...or situation, I would rarely need to carry both at the same time.

---------- Post added 12-28-14 at 12:00 PM ----------



I wish... point is... older (discontinued?) models don't increase revenues, new models do...
Independent groups are the only answer, but Pentax is not all that mainstream...

I can understand that the 30 minute limit is a problem sometimes. Usually not for me, sometimes it is (though my camera is limited to 5 minutes at the highest quality setting... so I run into limits much faster). I could imagine them offering a K-3C... same camera, just a bit more expensive because of the import taxes involved in an unlocked unlimited duration video feature. Or maybe a firmware you can sneakily install.


In general I'd be happy with a K-5 with a more video optimized firmware, especially if they add pixel binning and a sensor that does full sensor readout. Nikon has that in the D5300, any the hardware they use is similar to what Pentax uses or can get when they do a new camera. So that + video firmware (though it should still be a stills camera... seriously, it should be possible to add good video functionality without hurting stills).

[DantaxD-SK]

Ok, how about they take a K-3 ii then-
Swap out the sensor and processor for the innards of the Sony a6000, an affordable machine with a good video reputation.
Add some more bells and whistles from the K-s2 including the swivel screen.
Sell the body only for ~ $1200 - $1500 USD.
Offer a super kit with the HD 16-85mm WR, vertical grip, Polaroid shoulder mount, Tascam TM-2X mic, ATH-M50x headphones, and a couple good UHS SDXC cards.

Maybe they could also make a bigger version of the above based on the guts of a Sony Alpha A7 II and sell it for roughly $2500 and bring it down to $1800-$2200 after about a year.
Another good idea ring the big beast out to market before the smaller one by about 6 months to give it some opportunity to sell well by being the only Pentax with this feature.

Actually if this really is the plan it would make the absence of movie AF in the K-s2 and K-3 ii seem less insane.
Self competition is UGLY, It will be very severe come December, and it is business as usual for marketing economists to give orders to designers.

And do realize that the reason given there being no full frame mirrorless Pentax in the next couple years is sensor heat.
And to reiterate... Sony, the company that makes the A7 mark 2 and the A7 s, Full frame mirrorless cameras intended for video work, is the same company that makes the sensors for Pentax.
Sensor heat is mostly an issue in long duration video work.

Best case scenario is hurry up and wait.

In the nearer term I want my K-s2 to be able to focus peak while recording movies.

[richandfleur]

I don't think Pentax should be allowed anywhere near another video capable product until they sort the basic out.

[PiDicus Rex]

until they sort the basic out.

Agreed.

But. Given the speed of the changes that have and are happening, and the fact it has now been more then a year since there were any firmware updates for any of the models we love, Well,... I would take a serious look at a K-Mount video-only camera in the form factor of the Sony NEX-VG10-30 body style.

The problem that ALL Dslr/Milc manufacturers now have, is what to do to catch up to the Sony A7s. ( Not the A7r or A7ii )
After using one for various shoots over the last few weeks, I will happily call it the Industry Benchmark - It overall performance, and its configurability (oh, the joy of it) put is so far ahead of the game.
Frankly, Sony got the Basics right, then gave it firmware that lets it match footage with the same lenses as what you get from F3, FS100, FS700 and F5.

A video shaped camera, based on the K3 sensor, with the Sensor Shift and a decent CoDec, and decent connectivity, could be a good camera, but Penta'x market penetration at this point simply wouldn't support the business model needed to make it profitable.

Updating the K-3 (and, pleeeeease, the K-01) firmware to include the functions needed for it to do Video to the same performance standard as it does Stills, is a no-brainer, and would help shift remaining units from stores.

[EricG]

I know this is in regards to a K-mount camcorder, but it made me think about the JVC LS300 as a possible alternative. Super 35 sensor but Micro 4/3 mount which could easily be adapted for our lenses. I know we wouldn't get the benefit of the active mount but we wouldn't even need a focal reducer... So, we basically have a camcorder that can shoot 4k right now and use our lenses with a cheap adapter.

But now you've done it, I'm actually going to vent... I'm still shaking my head at Pentax on the video front. I was holding my breath for the K-3ii. Now, I'm actually trying to think of a major camera manufacturer that isn't ahead of Pentax in this area now other than maybe Fuji. I thought for sure, Pentax would figure this out before Olympus...

I actually don't think Pentax realizes what it is missing. I have friends shooting other higher cost cameras who always prefer the build quality of Pentax and the better weather proofing. A few flakes of snow and they are wrapping them up... There are a lot of people shooting video now and they want to be able to take their cameras out in a thunderstorm or other locations. Pentax can go there where other cameras won't or can't. Pentax cinematography is just begging to be used as a marketing tool. Taking stills and video off a mountain top, slogging with the troops or kids in the mud, etc. The A7s can have low light, but we should own the swamps, gutters, mountains, and everywhere else on the planet. Think the GoPro of the DSLR video world. If you wanted to dream big then imagine a Pentax release of the 31mm with cine-gearing. How much would people pay for that? Not everyone here, but I would be very tempted and be willing to pay more for it. People vent about a $1000 lens but does Pentax realize that people who shoot for video may drop $5000 for a lens? I may detest Canon, but they figured out how to rebadge their lenses (just look at their cine lenses). Philip Bloom just did a love letter to the Pentax 645z. I'm hoping one day, we'll see the same on the video front and not a camcorder. I've saved about $5k waiting for Pentax and haven't spent a dime because I won't invest in more k-mount becauseI have what I need for the stills I like to shoot. But I don't own what I need to shoot for video... If nothing else, could they at least figure out how to let us hook up to an Atomos Ninja, a flattish profile, and 60p. To say nothing about shake reduction... Venting and dreaming all at once...