What to do ( video)

Steve.Ledger · 07-29-2015, 01:22 AM

Aside from the much poorer build quality of Canons, the video IQ is much the same. IOW: If you are happy to use a consumer level Canon DSLR then stick with the the K-500. The K-S2 isn't any better for video with the exception that it has the vari-angle screen and a mic input..

richandfleur · 07-29-2015, 03:35 PM

My 2c...

Get a GoPro, sit it on an egg timer and you'll get one revolution in an hour. Take a 12MP photo every 5 seconds or so. Later in post, remove the fish eye, correct levels/chromatic aberration etc, resize to 2.5MP and then pan across the timelapse, so it's moving even if the camera was still etc. Heck resize to 8MP for a 4k timelapse...

You Tube

The brief of a timelapse to summarise the whole day sounds doable with not much gear. I'd suggest even the K-500 could work. Get a nice lens, turn off the movie sr stabilisation, pick an aperture where the depth of field is workable, as you won't get any aids to assist, such as focus peaking, continuous tracking autofocus, digital zoom etc.
I personally don't use a DSLR for timelapse anymore as I don't like the extra shutter actuations, but would need to if the scene had complex lighting aspects.

Not to knock the other great posts, but I think you'd need to work out what you want the finished product to look like, and then work back from there to select the gear required to achieve that, - filling any obvious holes with new gear only if required.

I think if you

TaoMaas · 07-30-2015, 04:58 AM

What about renting some Canon gear for this shoot? That might show you a clearer path. FYI, test it before the day of the shoot! lol The worst thing a photographer can do is be surprised by new gear on a shoot.

PiDicus Rex · 07-31-2015, 10:59 AM

900 pounds, that's about $1500au ?
You could get a secondhand BMD Pocket Cam and a K-to-M4/3 adapter for that here.
And then have to deal with it's issues....
What about a secondhand VG-20 and K-to-E mount adapter?
That way you could keep using your current lenses, and IIRC it has HDMI output, so could feed an external recorder for bigger gigs later.

kadajawi · 08-03-2015, 07:01 AM

Forget Canon. Hardy better than Pentax. They only enjoy the reputation they got early on.

A Pentax K-5 will turn out beautiful high bitrate AND stabilized video, the last Pentax to do so.

A Samsung NX1 would let you use your old Pentax lenses and shoot beautiful 4K video, however the codec at the moment is too high end, computers can't handle it properly yet. And with old lenses video isn't stabilized. You would also have to raise your budget.

If you want stabilization either wait for Sony or get an Olympus, those will stabilize all videos regardless of lens. Or, well, the K-5.

Steve.Ledger · 08-03-2015, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by kadajawi

A Samsung NX1 would let you use your old Pentax lenses

I haven't checked, but is there an adapter to use K-mount on an NX Mount DSLM and get full use?

richandfleur · 08-03-2015, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by kadajawi

Forget Canon. Hardy better than Pentax.

That was my thought also. You'd need a reason to move to anything, as just changing cameras (even to a more capable device) isn't going to instantly make your video more successful on it's own.

If you have a stabilised mount, (tripod, some form of steady cam), then the pentax will do about as good as the other base models. You do get moire and aliasing on a lot of cameras, but if the 'story' is good then most people don't notice. People will notice shaky video must more easily and that all comes down to production values rather than the device. That's why I personally go on about the lack of stabilisation now in Pentax cameras.

Not saying Pentax is great in the video field, but how you use the tools is probably more important. Changing to a 4k capable device won't change the rest of the aspects involved in producing a 'professional' level product.

jonsalty · 08-03-2015, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by richandfleur

That was my thought also. You'd need a reason to move to anything, as just changing cameras (even to a more capable device) isn't going to instantly make your video more successful on it's own.

If you have a stabilised mount, (tripod, some form of steady cam), then the pentax will do about as good as the other base models. You do get moire and aliasing on a lot of cameras, but if the 'story' is good then most people don't notice. People will notice shaky video must more easily and that all comes down to production values rather than the device. That's why I personally go on about the lack of stabilisation now in Pentax cameras.

Not saying Pentax is great in the video field, but how you use the tools is probably more important. Changing to a 4k capable device won't change the rest of the aspects involved in producing a 'professional' level product.

I have a storyboard meeting with the client tomorrow to go through what shots they are wanting from the event.
If it's simple ill pop it on my tripod and it'll be fine. My main issue is if I have to do any walking around style shots I find that the footage is really wobbly. I think it is probably the SR or stabilisation compensating which in my opinion gives an unnatural look.

I shot this using my k500 and a hero4 silver and because I used a tripod I think it came out rather well. So I must agree regarding dslr stabilisation

Youtu.be

kadajawi · 08-03-2015, 02:40 PM

I do like shaky camera, but it has to be the shaky look of a big, heavy camera. Light cameras jitter too much. SR fixes that. During the concert (I once posted a video of the concert here... and IMHO the handheld footage shot at 50mm looks great) I also moved from one side of the stage to the other while at 18mm, and it looked great. Completely handheld.

Stabilized mount and avoid detailed scenes (shoot wide open) and too much motion, then the Pentax should perform very well.

If only Pentax reenabled SR and high bitrate MJPEG, the cameras could be at least competitive with Nikon and Canon.

Oh well. Olympus does look great, if you want to go handheld.

@jonsalty: Turn off movie SR. That should fix most of your problems. If you don't mind looking too goofy you could put your camera on a tripod and carry around that tripod. That can work, there are guides on the net.

jonsalty · 08-03-2015, 02:44 PM

What would you recommend to be the safest settings for video on a k500? I did a test yesterday with different shutter speeds, frame rates etc. I've read that fps 24 and 1/50 is the best because it has a similar motion blur to what our eyes naturally seem I made that mistake when panning a race car with a shutter speed of about 1/800 and the frame was so jerky.

kadajawi · 08-03-2015, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by jonsalty

What would you recommend to be the safest settings for video on a k500? I did a test yesterday with different shutter speeds, frame rates etc. I've read that fps 24 and 1/50 is the best because it has a similar motion blur to what our eyes naturally seem I made that mistake when panning a race car with a shutter speed of about 1/800 and the frame was so jerky.

It depends. If you do 1/800 you can stabilize in post (or even the movie SR may work, which would give you higher resolution). After that there are ways to re-add motion blur in post. It might be worth a test. Software stabilization needs short shutter speeds.

Steve.Ledger · 08-03-2015, 03:43 PM

I don't understand a word of that.
Tell me, how does Movie SR result in higher resolution?
By short shutter speeds do you mean faster or slower? I don't think 'short' is a term that works for speed.

I'm still interested in your comment about using Pentax lenses on the NX1.

kadajawi · 08-03-2015, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

I don't understand a word of that.
Tell me, how does Movie SR result in higher resolution?
By short shutter speeds do you mean faster or slower? I don't think 'short' is a term that works for speed.

I'm still interested in your comment about using Pentax lenses on the NX1.

Sorry... I directly translated from German. Faster. 1/800 instead of 1/50.

MovieSR (probably) works by capturing the whole sensor at, say, 2500x1400 or so (at least that'd be the ideal situation). It will then crop the image to 1920x1080, while moving the part that it takes the image from around. If you do software stabilization in post, you're working with a 1920x1080 image that you then crop from... after that you'll be blowing up the image again, but it won't look as sharp as before of course.

The faster shutter speeds help in freezing the motion... motion blur looks pretty ugly when you software stabilize it. It becomes very noticeable.

I don't know about the NX1, I think I've read something about adapters, but they are fully manual. So MF etc. Only Sony seems to have active adapters for Canon...?

richandfleur · 08-03-2015, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by jonsalty

I have a storyboard meeting with the client tomorrow to go through what shots they are wanting from the event.
If it's simple ill pop it on my tripod and it'll be fine. My main issue is if I have to do any walking around style shots I find that the footage is really wobbly. I think it is probably the SR or stabilisation compensating which in my opinion gives an unnatural look.

I shot this using my k500 and a hero4 silver and because I used a tripod I think it came out rather well. So I must agree regarding dslr stabilisation

https://youtu.be/6xhJDvpEwWk

That looks great and based on your comments you'll be fine.

Turn that Movie SR off.
If you leave it on you will not be able to remove it's warping jello effect in post, it gets burned in.
Seriously, no joking here, it is a stupid stupid system and will make or break a professional project.

Beering that in mind, you won't have any stabilisaiton, so you'll need to think smart about this.

Agree that if your brief requires walk about / non tripod shots then you'll need to consider how to provide that stabilisation.
Shoulder rigs could be an option, but I'd be looking at Olympus or Sony for sensor stabilisation, or an optically stabilised lens.
That's where Pentax really lucks out as no one is making stabilised lenses for them these days, as it's assumed they'll provide the stabilisation in body.

Settings.
Others will provide more info on this. Pretty much all modern Pentaxs (anything with Movie SR in it) have the same video capabilities.
Flat profiles may help, others can comment on that.

Personally I'd go full HD, 1080P, 24fps, maximum stars quality.
I have had good results from using the AV mode in video, but would look at 1/50s as the shutter speed if going to manual.
Keep the ISO down where possible. Video on a Pentax is essentially baked in JPG files conceptually, so anything that ups the ISO really degrades the image quality.

Just read the K-S2 review section on video and it gives an interesting slide over image comparing stills with video.
It makes for interesting but disappointing reading...
Pentax K-S2 Review - Movie Mode | PentaxForums.com Reviews

Steve.Ledger · 08-03-2015, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by kadajawi

MovieSR (probably) works by capturing the whole sensor at, say, 2500x1400 or so (at least that'd be the ideal situation). It will then crop the image to 1920x1080, while moving the part that it takes the image from around.

As has been mentioned before. MovieSR isn't useful for moving around/walking while held in hand - it's impossible for software to emulate SR hardware/gimbal type stabilization which stabilizes before the light hits the sensor... MovieSR [I think] is simply there for hand-holding while keeping as still as possible while the scene moves in front of you. Slow panning is also possible without MovieSR spoiling things 'too' much.
As some of you already know, I bought a 17-70mm Sigma Optically Stablized lens which totally solves the problem when I use the K-01 or K-50 for hand held video clips.
It's a shame this is necessary but at the same time it's my only HSM lens so I also get very quiet AF

---------- Post added 08-04-15 at 11:00 AM ----------

Originally posted by richandfleur

Just read the K-S2 review section on video and it gives an interesting slide over image comparing stills with video.
It makes for interesting but disappointing reading...
Pentax K-S2 Review - Movie Mode | PentaxForums.com Reviews

Indeed, and that sample video very well illustrates how MovieSR completely wrecks a clip.

08-03-2015, 02:40 PM	#24
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	I do like shaky camera, but it has to be the shaky look of a big, heavy camera. Light cameras jitter too much. SR fixes that. During the concert (I once posted a video of the concert here... and IMHO the handheld footage shot at 50mm looks great) I also moved from one side of the stage to the other while at 18mm, and it looked great. Completely handheld. Stabilized mount and avoid detailed scenes (shoot wide open) and too much motion, then the Pentax should perform very well. If only Pentax reenabled SR and high bitrate MJPEG, the cameras could be at least competitive with Nikon and Canon. Oh well. Olympus does look great, if you want to go handheld. @jonsalty: Turn off movie SR. That should fix most of your problems. If you don't mind looking too goofy you could put your camera on a tripod and carry around that tripod. That can work, there are guides on the net. Last edited by kadajawi; 08-03-2015 at 02:48 PM.

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07-29-2015, 01:22 AM	#16
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Aside from the much poorer build quality of Canons, the video IQ is much the same. IOW: If you are happy to use a consumer level Canon DSLR then stick with the the K-500. The K-S2 isn't any better for video with the exception that it has the vari-angle screen and a mic input..

07-30-2015, 04:58 AM	#18
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	What about renting some Canon gear for this shoot? That might show you a clearer path. FYI, test it before the day of the shoot! lol The worst thing a photographer can do is be surprised by new gear on a shoot.

07-31-2015, 10:59 AM	#19
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	900 pounds, that's about $1500au ? You could get a secondhand BMD Pocket Cam and a K-to-M4/3 adapter for that here. And then have to deal with it's issues.... What about a secondhand VG-20 and K-to-E mount adapter? That way you could keep using your current lenses, and IIRC it has HDMI output, so could feed an external recorder for bigger gigs later.

08-03-2015, 07:01 AM	#20
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Forget Canon. Hardy better than Pentax. They only enjoy the reputation they got early on. A Pentax K-5 will turn out beautiful high bitrate AND stabilized video, the last Pentax to do so. A Samsung NX1 would let you use your old Pentax lenses and shoot beautiful 4K video, however the codec at the moment is too high end, computers can't handle it properly yet. And with old lenses video isn't stabilized. You would also have to raise your budget. If you want stabilization either wait for Sony or get an Olympus, those will stabilize all videos regardless of lens. Or, well, the K-5.

08-03-2015, 01:28 PM	#21
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by kadajawi A Samsung NX1 would let you use your old Pentax lenses I haven't checked, but is there an adapter to use K-mount on an NX Mount DSLM and get full use?

08-03-2015, 02:22 PM	#22
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by kadajawi Forget Canon. Hardy better than Pentax. That was my thought also. You'd need a reason to move to anything, as just changing cameras (even to a more capable device) isn't going to instantly make your video more successful on it's own. If you have a stabilised mount, (tripod, some form of steady cam), then the pentax will do about as good as the other base models. You do get moire and aliasing on a lot of cameras, but if the 'story' is good then most people don't notice. People will notice shaky video must more easily and that all comes down to production values rather than the device. That's why I personally go on about the lack of stabilisation now in Pentax cameras. Not saying Pentax is great in the video field, but how you use the tools is probably more important. Changing to a 4k capable device won't change the rest of the aspects involved in producing a 'professional' level product.

08-03-2015, 02:44 PM	#25
jonsalty New Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 24 Original Poster	What would you recommend to be the safest settings for video on a k500? I did a test yesterday with different shutter speeds, frame rates etc. I've read that fps 24 and 1/50 is the best because it has a similar motion blur to what our eyes naturally seem I made that mistake when panning a race car with a shutter speed of about 1/800 and the frame was so jerky.

08-03-2015, 02:56 PM	#26
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by jonsalty What would you recommend to be the safest settings for video on a k500? I did a test yesterday with different shutter speeds, frame rates etc. I've read that fps 24 and 1/50 is the best because it has a similar motion blur to what our eyes naturally seem I made that mistake when panning a race car with a shutter speed of about 1/800 and the frame was so jerky. It depends. If you do 1/800 you can stabilize in post (or even the movie SR may work, which would give you higher resolution). After that there are ways to re-add motion blur in post. It might be worth a test. Software stabilization needs short shutter speeds.

08-03-2015, 03:43 PM	#27
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	I don't understand a word of that. Tell me, how does Movie SR result in higher resolution? By short shutter speeds do you mean faster or slower? I don't think 'short' is a term that works for speed. I'm still interested in your comment about using Pentax lenses on the NX1.

08-03-2015, 04:03 PM	#28
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger I don't understand a word of that. Tell me, how does Movie SR result in higher resolution? By short shutter speeds do you mean faster or slower? I don't think 'short' is a term that works for speed. I'm still interested in your comment about using Pentax lenses on the NX1. Sorry... I directly translated from German. Faster. 1/800 instead of 1/50. MovieSR (probably) works by capturing the whole sensor at, say, 2500x1400 or so (at least that'd be the ideal situation). It will then crop the image to 1920x1080, while moving the part that it takes the image from around. If you do software stabilization in post, you're working with a 1920x1080 image that you then crop from... after that you'll be blowing up the image again, but it won't look as sharp as before of course. The faster shutter speeds help in freezing the motion... motion blur looks pretty ugly when you software stabilize it. It becomes very noticeable. I don't know about the NX1, I think I've read something about adapters, but they are fully manual. So MF etc. Only Sony seems to have active adapters for Canon...?

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08-03-2015, 04:42 PM	#29
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by jonsalty I have a storyboard meeting with the client tomorrow to go through what shots they are wanting from the event. If it's simple ill pop it on my tripod and it'll be fine. My main issue is if I have to do any walking around style shots I find that the footage is really wobbly. I think it is probably the SR or stabilisation compensating which in my opinion gives an unnatural look. I shot this using my k500 and a hero4 silver and because I used a tripod I think it came out rather well. So I must agree regarding dslr stabilisation https://youtu.be/6xhJDvpEwWk That looks great and based on your comments you'll be fine. Turn that Movie SR off. If you leave it on you will not be able to remove it's warping jello effect in post, it gets burned in. Seriously, no joking here, it is a stupid stupid system and will make or break a professional project. Beering that in mind, you won't have any stabilisaiton, so you'll need to think smart about this. Agree that if your brief requires walk about / non tripod shots then you'll need to consider how to provide that stabilisation. Shoulder rigs could be an option, but I'd be looking at Olympus or Sony for sensor stabilisation, or an optically stabilised lens. That's where Pentax really lucks out as no one is making stabilised lenses for them these days, as it's assumed they'll provide the stabilisation in body. Settings. Others will provide more info on this. Pretty much all modern Pentaxs (anything with Movie SR in it) have the same video capabilities. Flat profiles may help, others can comment on that. Personally I'd go full HD, 1080P, 24fps, maximum stars quality. I have had good results from using the AV mode in video, but would look at 1/50s as the shutter speed if going to manual. Keep the ISO down where possible. Video on a Pentax is essentially baked in JPG files conceptually, so anything that ups the ISO really degrades the image quality. Just read the K-S2 review section on video and it gives an interesting slide over image comparing stills with video. It makes for interesting but disappointing reading... Pentax K-S2 Review - Movie Mode \| PentaxForums.com Reviews

08-03-2015, 05:38 PM	#30
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by kadajawi MovieSR (probably) works by capturing the whole sensor at, say, 2500x1400 or so (at least that'd be the ideal situation). It will then crop the image to 1920x1080, while moving the part that it takes the image from around. As has been mentioned before. MovieSR isn't useful for moving around/walking while held in hand - it's impossible for software to emulate SR hardware/gimbal type stabilization which stabilizes before the light hits the sensor... MovieSR [I think] is simply there for hand-holding while keeping as still as possible while the scene moves in front of you. Slow panning is also possible without MovieSR spoiling things 'too' much. As some of you already know, I bought a 17-70mm Sigma Optically Stablized lens which totally solves the problem when I use the K-01 or K-50 for hand held video clips. It's a shame this is necessary but at the same time it's my only HSM lens so I also get very quiet AF ---------- Post added 08-04-15 at 11:00 AM ---------- Originally posted by richandfleur Just read the K-S2 review section on video and it gives an interesting slide over image comparing stills with video. It makes for interesting but disappointing reading... Pentax K-S2 Review - Movie Mode \| PentaxForums.com Reviews Indeed, and that sample video very well illustrates how MovieSR completely wrecks a clip.