What to do ( video)

kadajawi · 08-03-2015, 06:47 PM

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Someone send that clip to Pentax then... maybe at some point they realize their error.

movie SR does have one advantage. It buffers the video for a while, so if you stop a pan the system notices and is able to slow down the pan gently. You don't get to see exactly what you are recording though.

What you should do is reduce sharpening as much as possible to make it easier for the encoder. Lower contrast maybe, in order to get more dynamic range.

Steve.Ledger · 08-03-2015, 07:21 PM - **2 Likes**

They haven't realized their error in at least 7 APS-C models so far, I doubt they will.

fuent104 · 08-05-2015, 12:37 PM

Here's a very nice deal on a Sony VG-20.

Sony NEX VG20 Handycam E Mount Interchangeable Lens Camcorder Body Only w Box | eBay

It may not be heads a shoulders above other cameras in terms of image quality, but it will have several advantages:

1. Full frame sensor (wide lens selection becomes easier)
2. Unlimited recording times (since it's a video camera)
3. Classic camcorder ergonomics (this is great, especially for longer shoots and hand-held work)
4. E Mount is even more flexible than M/43.

For this same amount of money, you may be able to get one of the other cameras people have mentioned, but you probably won't be able to afford the accessories to make it more useful for handheld shooting. With this camera, you're ready to go. All you'd need is an E-PK adapter.

PiDicus Rex · 08-07-2015, 05:56 PM

Fuent104 : I've been intrigued by those Sony VG's for a while - they look to me like what the Canon XL series should have evolved in to.

There's a few negative reviews of them on them, especially the earlier VG10, but they do look to be good value, and very user friendly for 'video' shooters.

fuent104 · 08-07-2015, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

Fuent104 : I've been intrigued by those Sony VG's for a while - they look to me like what the Canon XL series should have evolved in to.

There's a few negative reviews of them on them, especially the earlier VG10, but they do look to be good value, and very user friendly for 'video' shooters.

The VG10 wasnt well received, and the VG20 didn't get a ton of reviews. At their original prices, they may not be great, but I'd be shocked if they are not better than a $700 DSLR for shooting events. The economics alone should mean you will have more usable footage.

PiDicus Rex · 08-10-2015, 06:08 AM

Personally,... I'd be in favor of any hypothetical K-02 following a similar physical layout.

jonsalty · 08-10-2015, 06:12 AM

So I went and spoke to my local camera store and given my circumstances he suggested upgrading to the k3.
I did a panning shot with the k500 and it was really staggered. I don't know whether that was because I was using 24 fps at 1/50 and should be using something slightly higher? I know the k3 goes up to 60i fps. Do you think that will solve the panning issues.

As an update I spoke with the client about content and I have to produce something stupid like 40x 10 second clips for social media. I did a production schedule and they require it ASAP so I will likely be doing a coupe of 24 hour days lol.

**winkler** · 08-10-2015, 07:47 AM

First question I would ask is what will be the longest time length of a single video clip? If it is over 25 minutes then look to the Panasonic G4 series cameras or look at dedicated video cameras (SONY, Panasonic, JVC, etc). There will be a lot of products at reasonable prices if you don't need quality exceeding 1080P. 2nd question is more of a statement. 80% of the quality of your video work will be good audio. Have you thoroughly researched how you will record the audio of your events? Build that into your budget.

That said, I agree with most comments. Pentax video specs are good for B-roll in some situations.

jonsalty · 08-10-2015, 11:45 AM

Thankfully the contract got so large I am bringing in an assistant who IS a professional videographer whereas I just own a company but figured I'd be able to get away with filming smaller projects.
The audio will likely be music over the top but I do have a zoom h1.
Footage wise I have a gopro which will be doing an 8 hour time lapse all dslr footage will be 5-30 seconds long. As it is all for social media and instagram and twitter limit video time.

Steve.Ledger · 08-10-2015, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by jonsalty

So I went and spoke to my local camera store and given my circumstances he suggested upgrading to the k3.
I did a panning shot with the k500 and it was really staggered. I don't know whether that was because I was using 24 fps at 1/50 and should be using something slightly higher?

More likely your PC or the player used to view the file. K-3 won't be any different. The suggestion to upgrade to the K-3 is based on the dealer's sales figures and profit margin.
I have the K-50 and 24fps is fine, but it's at the borderline of what the human eye/brain can detect as 'smooth' frame-to-frame transition.

richandfleur · 08-10-2015, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

I have the K-50 and 24fps is fine, but it's at the borderline of what the human eye/brain can detect as 'smooth' frame-to-frame transition.

This.

24p is actually too slow to smoothly pan quickly over a background. It threw a lot of people when they saw this judder in their new expensive Bluray setups, which also run at 24p.
Shooting on any camera at that shutter speed and frame rate will create the same issue.
The Big Judder Problem and the Overhyping of 24p

That said, if the codec is poor / bitrate too limited then this will exacerbate the situation, with fast pans being a real workout for any codec. In which case a more capable camera will help. The disappointing thing though is that the K-3 is not dramatically more capable than the K-500 in this regard.

kadajawi · 08-10-2015, 02:32 PM

Hollywood also only uses 24p... shoot at 1/50 and you should be ok.

60i... it would have to be deinterlaced, which is a bit of a headache, and costs a lot of (processing) time to be done properly.

Also, for 60p you'll need faster internet connections for decent quality, etc. IMHO it makes more sense to stick with 24/25p and learn how to do it.

richandfleur · 08-10-2015, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by kadajawi

Hollywood also only uses 24p... shoot at 1/50 and you should be ok.

60i... it would have to be deinterlaced, which is a bit of a headache, and costs a lot of (processing) time to be done properly.

Also, for 60p you'll need faster internet connections for decent quality, etc. IMHO it makes more sense to stick with 24/25p and learn how to do it.

Fully agree. I'd shoot at 24 or 30fps progressive and feel the Pentax 60i is a lame attempt to try and compete with the other brands in this arena.

Just pointing out 24fps is going to cause issues for fast pans, so if you beer this in mind then you can work with that issue.

Steve.Ledger · 08-10-2015, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by richandfleur

..... so if you beer this in mind then you can work with that issue.

A bit early for a brew in NZ, surely?

richandfleur · 08-10-2015, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

A bit early for a brew in NZ, surely?

lol, glad someone noticed. I expect technically to early, but frankly I'd be keen if someone else was today.

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08-03-2015, 06:47 PM	#31
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here. Someone send that clip to Pentax then... maybe at some point they realize their error. movie SR does have one advantage. It buffers the video for a while, so if you stop a pan the system notices and is able to slow down the pan gently. You don't get to see exactly what you are recording though. What you should do is reduce sharpening as much as possible to make it easier for the encoder. Lower contrast maybe, in order to get more dynamic range.

08-03-2015, 07:21 PM - 2 Likes	#32
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	They haven't realized their error in at least 7 APS-C models so far, I doubt they will.

08-05-2015, 12:37 PM	#33
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	Here's a very nice deal on a Sony VG-20. Sony NEX VG20 Handycam E Mount Interchangeable Lens Camcorder Body Only w Box \| eBay It may not be heads a shoulders above other cameras in terms of image quality, but it will have several advantages: 1. Full frame sensor (wide lens selection becomes easier) 2. Unlimited recording times (since it's a video camera) 3. Classic camcorder ergonomics (this is great, especially for longer shoots and hand-held work) 4. E Mount is even more flexible than M/43. For this same amount of money, you may be able to get one of the other cameras people have mentioned, but you probably won't be able to afford the accessories to make it more useful for handheld shooting. With this camera, you're ready to go. All you'd need is an E-PK adapter.

08-07-2015, 05:56 PM	#34
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Fuent104 : I've been intrigued by those Sony VG's for a while - they look to me like what the Canon XL series should have evolved in to. There's a few negative reviews of them on them, especially the earlier VG10, but they do look to be good value, and very user friendly for 'video' shooters.

08-07-2015, 06:57 PM	#35
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex Fuent104 : I've been intrigued by those Sony VG's for a while - they look to me like what the Canon XL series should have evolved in to. There's a few negative reviews of them on them, especially the earlier VG10, but they do look to be good value, and very user friendly for 'video' shooters. The VG10 wasnt well received, and the VG20 didn't get a ton of reviews. At their original prices, they may not be great, but I'd be shocked if they are not better than a $700 DSLR for shooting events. The economics alone should mean you will have more usable footage.

08-10-2015, 06:08 AM	#36
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Personally,... I'd be in favor of any hypothetical K-02 following a similar physical layout.

08-10-2015, 06:12 AM	#37
jonsalty New Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 24 Original Poster	So I went and spoke to my local camera store and given my circumstances he suggested upgrading to the k3. I did a panning shot with the k500 and it was really staggered. I don't know whether that was because I was using 24 fps at 1/50 and should be using something slightly higher? I know the k3 goes up to 60i fps. Do you think that will solve the panning issues. As an update I spoke with the client about content and I have to produce something stupid like 40x 10 second clips for social media. I did a production schedule and they require it ASAP so I will likely be doing a coupe of 24 hour days lol.

08-10-2015, 07:47 AM	#38
winkler Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 23	First question I would ask is what will be the longest time length of a single video clip? If it is over 25 minutes then look to the Panasonic G4 series cameras or look at dedicated video cameras (SONY, Panasonic, JVC, etc). There will be a lot of products at reasonable prices if you don't need quality exceeding 1080P. 2nd question is more of a statement. 80% of the quality of your video work will be good audio. Have you thoroughly researched how you will record the audio of your events? Build that into your budget. That said, I agree with most comments. Pentax video specs are good for B-roll in some situations.

08-10-2015, 11:45 AM	#39
jonsalty New Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 24 Original Poster	Thankfully the contract got so large I am bringing in an assistant who IS a professional videographer whereas I just own a company but figured I'd be able to get away with filming smaller projects. The audio will likely be music over the top but I do have a zoom h1. Footage wise I have a gopro which will be doing an 8 hour time lapse all dslr footage will be 5-30 seconds long. As it is all for social media and instagram and twitter limit video time.

08-10-2015, 12:54 PM	#40
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by jonsalty So I went and spoke to my local camera store and given my circumstances he suggested upgrading to the k3. I did a panning shot with the k500 and it was really staggered. I don't know whether that was because I was using 24 fps at 1/50 and should be using something slightly higher? More likely your PC or the player used to view the file. K-3 won't be any different. The suggestion to upgrade to the K-3 is based on the dealer's sales figures and profit margin. I have the K-50 and 24fps is fine, but it's at the borderline of what the human eye/brain can detect as 'smooth' frame-to-frame transition.

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08-10-2015, 01:38 PM	#41
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger I have the K-50 and 24fps is fine, but it's at the borderline of what the human eye/brain can detect as 'smooth' frame-to-frame transition. This. 24p is actually too slow to smoothly pan quickly over a background. It threw a lot of people when they saw this judder in their new expensive Bluray setups, which also run at 24p. Shooting on any camera at that shutter speed and frame rate will create the same issue. The Big Judder Problem and the Overhyping of 24p That said, if the codec is poor / bitrate too limited then this will exacerbate the situation, with fast pans being a real workout for any codec. In which case a more capable camera will help. The disappointing thing though is that the K-3 is not dramatically more capable than the K-500 in this regard.

08-10-2015, 02:32 PM	#42
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Hollywood also only uses 24p... shoot at 1/50 and you should be ok. 60i... it would have to be deinterlaced, which is a bit of a headache, and costs a lot of (processing) time to be done properly. Also, for 60p you'll need faster internet connections for decent quality, etc. IMHO it makes more sense to stick with 24/25p and learn how to do it.

08-10-2015, 03:26 PM	#43
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by kadajawi Hollywood also only uses 24p... shoot at 1/50 and you should be ok. 60i... it would have to be deinterlaced, which is a bit of a headache, and costs a lot of (processing) time to be done properly. Also, for 60p you'll need faster internet connections for decent quality, etc. IMHO it makes more sense to stick with 24/25p and learn how to do it. Fully agree. I'd shoot at 24 or 30fps progressive and feel the Pentax 60i is a lame attempt to try and compete with the other brands in this arena. Just pointing out 24fps is going to cause issues for fast pans, so if you beer this in mind then you can work with that issue.

08-10-2015, 03:37 PM	#44
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by richandfleur ..... so if you beer this in mind then you can work with that issue. A bit early for a brew in NZ, surely?

08-10-2015, 04:32 PM	#45
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger A bit early for a brew in NZ, surely? lol, glad someone noticed. I expect technically to early, but frankly I'd be keen if someone else was today.