What to do ( video)

PiDicus Rex · 08-17-2015, 02:56 PM

Nice work Jon - and here's me wondering how you recorded such clear 'live' sound - so it's well mixed with the traffic and outdoors sounds.

jonsalty · 08-17-2015, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

Nice work Jon - and here's me wondering how you recorded such clear 'live' sound - so it's well mixed with the traffic and outdoors sounds.

Thanks very much.

Yes unfortunately as you read above our client didn't quite think the concept through until we did a site visit. Therefore dubbed audio it was.

jonsalty · 08-19-2015, 12:42 AM

It was my birthday today so I treated myself to the Lumix G7 with a 100mm-300mm lens for my videography projects.

kadajawi · 08-19-2015, 03:05 AM - **1 Like**

Nice. Congrats, aaaaand... another one bites the dust (leaves Pentax).

If only Pentax would wake up, if only...

Tanzer · 08-19-2015, 08:25 AM

Well I haven't left Pentax. For stills shooting, my K5 and K3 completely trounces the GH4.

Panasonic can make some improvements if they really want to support both still and video shooters. For example, the GH4 has a "manual stills" and "manual video" on the mode dial, which looks nice at first. However, some of the basic settings cross over between modes, which you wouldn't realize until you start actually using the camera. Who uses the same shutter speed for video and stills? This is a super easy fix, nothing to do with hardware. Considering they have gone through many firmware updates already, and the next Vlog update might be a paid upgrade, I don't see it happening.

And why can't Sony or Panasonic make autofocus lenses that have real (mechanical, or at least linear) focus rings?

Nobody's perfect.

jonsalty · 08-19-2015, 10:10 AM

I will still be using my pentax for photography, (at least until I learn the capabilities of the g7 )
But the g7 realistically is going to be used for videography primarily.

Tanzer you sound very pleased with your pentax and I'm glad it works for you. I've only played with the g7 for about an hour so am still learning the pros and cons. It is certainly a different photography experience, new buttons, new menus, different sensor, like going from a pc to a mac I'll have to live with it for a while before I can comment on anything.

Tanzer · 08-19-2015, 02:48 PM

Don't get me wrong, the GH4 is awesome for video. If the G7 is anything like the GH4 (and by all accounts it seems like it is at least as good) you will love it for the quality of the video it produces.

Although the GH4 was marketed as a dual-purpose camera, the use cases for video and stills are very different. At the next event where I have to shoot both stills and video, I will carry two bodies: The K3 for stills, and the GH4 for video. After all, for many of my past events where I only shot stills, I often carried two bodies, and I am just an amateur photographer. There are even more reasons to carry two bodies when shooting both stills and video. In addition to the different exposure/focus settings, all the peripheral gear is also different. For example, many events are dark and you instantly will need a flash on your stills camera, and an LED video light for video, in addition to your audio/mic. One takes a ballhead, the other takes a monopod with a fluid head. On and on. (Not saying that you personally have to carry two bodies; it depends on what you are doing.)

Also, you will find that the way you compose your shots and move around the room is different.

My main point is, the fact that some stills cameras can take video, is a red herring. The experience of shooting stills and video is different. The important thing is to use the best tool for the job, and that might or might not be a large-sensor camera.

Good luck! I wish there were a Panasonic forum as good as Pentax Forums, let me know if you find one.

Last edited by Tanzer; 08-19-2015 at 02:54 PM.

Steve.Ledger · 08-19-2015, 03:23 PM

Quote:

My main point is, the fact that some stills cameras can take video, is a red herring.

Many pros around the globe would totally disagree with that opinion.
Actually, many amateurs too I'd say. Although still an emerging technology, the DLSR form factor and lens interchangeability is a massive advancement and is changing the videography world.
It's a natural and organic progression which while Pentax hasn't quite grasped the importance yet will most definitely not go away.
Approaching photography and videography differently is something you have to do whether you are using the same device or picking up another one.

Tanzer · 08-20-2015, 05:54 AM

I agree that lens interchangeability is a good thing, but for the type of event videography the OP is getting paid to do, having a parfocal zoom lens is probably more important than a set of primes, whether interchangeable or not.

The DSLR form factor is, in fact, the red herring, and is about cheapness. There is nothing a DSLR bodied camera can do better than a proper interchangeable lens video body. If those are too expensive for paid professional work, then the shooter has to weight the tradeoffs between the cheaper alternatives. Some folks believe that an S16 is the minimum that is needed for legitimacy, but that ignores the existing body of commercial work.

kadajawi · 08-20-2015, 08:33 AM

I think the difference is that these days, S35 cameras are affordable. Customers may not be willing to accept small sensor work and the look that results in. It just tends to look cheaper IMHO. To me a DSLR also looks more professional than say a X900, just the camera itself. The latter reminds me more of tourists.

DSLRs are not an ideal form factor for video. That's for sure. I wish I had a way to get my hands further apart from the camera (camera roll is quite visible and annoying, the SR takes care of the rest), but then I would lose control.

I think what would be ideal would be if we could connect a smartphone to the camera as the rear display, at least for the settings, and maybe then there could be BT based attachments, like remotes that have buttons, dials, ...

PiDicus Rex · 08-20-2015, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by jonsalty

It was my birthday today so I treated myself to the Lumix G7

Let us see what results you get?
Is the G7 a m4/3rds mount?

jonsalty · 08-20-2015, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

Let us see what results you get?
Is the G7 a m4/3rds mount?

Absolutely, just need to find the time to go out and do some shooting.
Yes it is mFT.

Steve.Ledger · 08-20-2015, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Tanzer

The DSLR form factor is, in fact, the red herring, and is about cheapness.

Disagreeing that it's a fact, or that it's about cheapness.
I don't see why the form-factor is any different an issue when shooting stills or time-lapse isn't, my high-end consumer camcorder form factor is utterly terrible.
In many cases a DSLR shooting video will be tripod mounted (or rig mounted if you are really keen) just as a IL Video camera would be.
I appreciate that it's your own personal opinion, but I'm convinced it's not everyone's, especially some well known pros and many independent film makers.

Tanzer · 08-20-2015, 03:40 PM

Sorry that's not what I meant. We are in agreement that the DSLR grip is certainly better than the horizontal handle and strap that is used on today's downsized video cameras. That is a vestige of the larger shoulder mounted cameras, where a grip (on a handle which was separate from the body) made sense. Incidentally, that kind of grip still makes sense today, on today's shoulder mounted cameras like the AG-AC8 or FS-7. It also makes sense on cameras which support a rotating hand grip like the XF200.

What I meant was that choosing a DSLR-type camera (regardless of the handle form factor) for video use is very much about cheapness. Okay, let me say it in a more positive way, that "using a DSLR camera for video use is about affordable compromises". Sony and Panasonic have professional video products which are more capable for video than their still cameras. That is not my opinion, that is a fact.

Now if the professional bodies like the FS7 are too expensive, one must make a choice amongst the cheaper alternatives, be it a DSLR or an ENG camera. One should choose carefully, understanding the intended application and nature of the paid work, and accepting the limitations of the chosen path. They all have limitations.

---------- Post added 08-20-15 at 06:56 PM ----------

Originally posted by kadajawi

I think the difference is that these days, S35 cameras are affordable.

Getting there, but there is a lot of room for refinement.

I seem to recall someone stating that AMC's The Walking Dead is shot entirely on S16 cameras. Not sure if that is correct, but the cinematography looks pretty good to me.

richandfleur · 08-20-2015, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Tanzer

What I meant was that choosing a DSLR-type camera (regardless of the handle form factor) for video use is very much about cheapness. Okay, let me say it in a more positive way, that "using a DSLR camera for video use is about affordable compromises". Sony and Panasonic have professional video products which are more capable for video than their still cameras. That is not my opinion, that is a fact.

These arguments always come down to comparing cameras from different use points (pro vs consumer) and very price points.

It's like saying don't buy a Toyota corolla as Mercedes do a far better AMG flagship model.

Originally posted by jonsalty

I have just got contracted to do my first event videography job and feel that the k500 isn't up for the challenge.
I have been looking at upgrading to the k-S2 (I'm going to read your reviews on it on here).

What are your thoughts, I do a lot of photography which the pentax is great for but videography should I be upgrading to another pentax or look into another model?

We're comparing options at the same price point. Real world budgets, and what can deliver the look the OP is after in that range.

08-20-2015, 03:40 PM	#74
Tanzer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Perrineville, NJ Posts: 1,375	Sorry that's not what I meant. We are in agreement that the DSLR grip is certainly better than the horizontal handle and strap that is used on today's downsized video cameras. That is a vestige of the larger shoulder mounted cameras, where a grip (on a handle which was separate from the body) made sense. Incidentally, that kind of grip still makes sense today, on today's shoulder mounted cameras like the AG-AC8 or FS-7. It also makes sense on cameras which support a rotating hand grip like the XF200. What I meant was that choosing a DSLR-type camera (regardless of the handle form factor) for video use is very much about cheapness. Okay, let me say it in a more positive way, that "using a DSLR camera for video use is about affordable compromises". Sony and Panasonic have professional video products which are more capable for video than their still cameras. That is not my opinion, that is a fact. Now if the professional bodies like the FS7 are too expensive, one must make a choice amongst the cheaper alternatives, be it a DSLR or an ENG camera. One should choose carefully, understanding the intended application and nature of the paid work, and accepting the limitations of the chosen path. They all have limitations. ---------- Post added 08-20-15 at 06:56 PM ---------- Originally posted by kadajawi I think the difference is that these days, S35 cameras are affordable. Getting there, but there is a lot of room for refinement. I seem to recall someone stating that AMC's The Walking Dead is shot entirely on S16 cameras. Not sure if that is correct, but the cinematography looks pretty good to me. Last edited by Tanzer; 08-20-2015 at 03:57 PM.

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08-17-2015, 02:56 PM	#61
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Nice work Jon - and here's me wondering how you recorded such clear 'live' sound - so it's well mixed with the traffic and outdoors sounds.

08-17-2015, 02:57 PM	#62
jonsalty New Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 24 Original Poster	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex Nice work Jon - and here's me wondering how you recorded such clear 'live' sound - so it's well mixed with the traffic and outdoors sounds. Thanks very much. Yes unfortunately as you read above our client didn't quite think the concept through until we did a site visit. Therefore dubbed audio it was.

08-19-2015, 12:42 AM	#63
jonsalty New Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 24 Original Poster	It was my birthday today so I treated myself to the Lumix G7 with a 100mm-300mm lens for my videography projects.

08-19-2015, 03:05 AM - 1 Like	#64
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Nice. Congrats, aaaaand... another one bites the dust (leaves Pentax). If only Pentax would wake up, if only...

08-19-2015, 08:25 AM	#65
Tanzer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Perrineville, NJ Posts: 1,375	Well I haven't left Pentax. For stills shooting, my K5 and K3 completely trounces the GH4. Panasonic can make some improvements if they really want to support both still and video shooters. For example, the GH4 has a "manual stills" and "manual video" on the mode dial, which looks nice at first. However, some of the basic settings cross over between modes, which you wouldn't realize until you start actually using the camera. Who uses the same shutter speed for video and stills? This is a super easy fix, nothing to do with hardware. Considering they have gone through many firmware updates already, and the next Vlog update might be a paid upgrade, I don't see it happening. And why can't Sony or Panasonic make autofocus lenses that have real (mechanical, or at least linear) focus rings? Nobody's perfect.

08-19-2015, 10:10 AM	#66
jonsalty New Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 24 Original Poster	I will still be using my pentax for photography, (at least until I learn the capabilities of the g7 ) But the g7 realistically is going to be used for videography primarily. Tanzer you sound very pleased with your pentax and I'm glad it works for you. I've only played with the g7 for about an hour so am still learning the pros and cons. It is certainly a different photography experience, new buttons, new menus, different sensor, like going from a pc to a mac I'll have to live with it for a while before I can comment on anything.

08-19-2015, 02:48 PM	#67
Tanzer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Perrineville, NJ Posts: 1,375	Don't get me wrong, the GH4 is awesome for video. If the G7 is anything like the GH4 (and by all accounts it seems like it is at least as good) you will love it for the quality of the video it produces. Although the GH4 was marketed as a dual-purpose camera, the use cases for video and stills are very different. At the next event where I have to shoot both stills and video, I will carry two bodies: The K3 for stills, and the GH4 for video. After all, for many of my past events where I only shot stills, I often carried two bodies, and I am just an amateur photographer. There are even more reasons to carry two bodies when shooting both stills and video. In addition to the different exposure/focus settings, all the peripheral gear is also different. For example, many events are dark and you instantly will need a flash on your stills camera, and an LED video light for video, in addition to your audio/mic. One takes a ballhead, the other takes a monopod with a fluid head. On and on. (Not saying that you personally have to carry two bodies; it depends on what you are doing.) Also, you will find that the way you compose your shots and move around the room is different. My main point is, the fact that some stills cameras can take video, is a red herring. The experience of shooting stills and video is different. The important thing is to use the best tool for the job, and that might or might not be a large-sensor camera. Good luck! I wish there were a Panasonic forum as good as Pentax Forums, let me know if you find one. Last edited by Tanzer; 08-19-2015 at 02:54 PM.

08-19-2015, 03:23 PM	#68
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Quote: My main point is, the fact that some stills cameras can take video, is a red herring. Many pros around the globe would totally disagree with that opinion. Actually, many amateurs too I'd say. Although still an emerging technology, the DLSR form factor and lens interchangeability is a massive advancement and is changing the videography world. It's a natural and organic progression which while Pentax hasn't quite grasped the importance yet will most definitely not go away. Approaching photography and videography differently is something you have to do whether you are using the same device or picking up another one.

08-20-2015, 05:54 AM	#69
Tanzer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Perrineville, NJ Posts: 1,375	I agree that lens interchangeability is a good thing, but for the type of event videography the OP is getting paid to do, having a parfocal zoom lens is probably more important than a set of primes, whether interchangeable or not. The DSLR form factor is, in fact, the red herring, and is about cheapness. There is nothing a DSLR bodied camera can do better than a proper interchangeable lens video body. If those are too expensive for paid professional work, then the shooter has to weight the tradeoffs between the cheaper alternatives. Some folks believe that an S16 is the minimum that is needed for legitimacy, but that ignores the existing body of commercial work.

08-20-2015, 08:33 AM	#70
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	I think the difference is that these days, S35 cameras are affordable. Customers may not be willing to accept small sensor work and the look that results in. It just tends to look cheaper IMHO. To me a DSLR also looks more professional than say a X900, just the camera itself. The latter reminds me more of tourists. DSLRs are not an ideal form factor for video. That's for sure. I wish I had a way to get my hands further apart from the camera (camera roll is quite visible and annoying, the SR takes care of the rest), but then I would lose control. I think what would be ideal would be if we could connect a smartphone to the camera as the rear display, at least for the settings, and maybe then there could be BT based attachments, like remotes that have buttons, dials, ...

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08-20-2015, 08:57 AM	#71
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by jonsalty It was my birthday today so I treated myself to the Lumix G7 Let us see what results you get? Is the G7 a m4/3rds mount?

08-20-2015, 11:28 AM	#72
jonsalty New Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 24 Original Poster	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex Let us see what results you get? Is the G7 a m4/3rds mount? Absolutely, just need to find the time to go out and do some shooting. Yes it is mFT.

08-20-2015, 01:20 PM	#73
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by Tanzer The DSLR form factor is, in fact, the red herring, and is about cheapness. Disagreeing that it's a fact, or that it's about cheapness. I don't see why the form-factor is any different an issue when shooting stills or time-lapse isn't, my high-end consumer camcorder form factor is utterly terrible. In many cases a DSLR shooting video will be tripod mounted (or rig mounted if you are really keen) just as a IL Video camera would be. I appreciate that it's your own personal opinion, but I'm convinced it's not everyone's, especially some well known pros and many independent film makers.

08-20-2015, 05:02 PM	#75
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by Tanzer What I meant was that choosing a DSLR-type camera (regardless of the handle form factor) for video use is very much about cheapness. Okay, let me say it in a more positive way, that "using a DSLR camera for video use is about affordable compromises". Sony and Panasonic have professional video products which are more capable for video than their still cameras. That is not my opinion, that is a fact. These arguments always come down to comparing cameras from different use points (pro vs consumer) and very price points. It's like saying don't buy a Toyota corolla as Mercedes do a far better AMG flagship model. Originally posted by jonsalty I have just got contracted to do my first event videography job and feel that the k500 isn't up for the challenge. I have been looking at upgrading to the k-S2 (I'm going to read your reviews on it on here). What are your thoughts, I do a lot of photography which the pentax is great for but videography should I be upgrading to another pentax or look into another model? We're comparing options at the same price point. Real world budgets, and what can deliver the look the OP is after in that range.