[Edgar_in_Indy]

These arguments always come down to comparing cameras from different use points (pro vs consumer) and very price points.

It's like saying don't buy a Toyota corolla as Mercedes do a far better AMG flagship model.

We're comparing options at the same price point. Real world budgets, and what can deliver the look the OP is after in that range.

Some people on here refuse to appreciate the fact that a DSLR allows someone with a small budget to get high-end video quality without spending five figures on a video camera. They say DSLR's are for taking pictures, and if you want good video, then buy a good video camera. These sticks-in-the-mud make it unpleasant to even discuss video features on the forum.

[richandfleur]

Some people on here refuse to appreciate the fact that a DSLR allows someone with a small budget to get high-end video quality without spending five figures on a video camera. They say DSLR's are for taking pictures, and if you want good video, then buy a good video camera. These sticks-in-the-mud make it unpleasant to even discuss video features on the forum.

Fully agree.


A DSLR is a camera, with a sensor, and a mirror in front of it to bounce light up into the optical viewfinder.
Flip that mirror up and you have live view, a sensor with no obstruction in front of it.


This, and the way a DSLR undertakes phase detection auto focus, is the only difference between a DSLR and a mirrorless camera.


DSLR's ARE used in all sorts of event videography. Why an FS7 reference should enter a discussion about a K-500 I just don't know.
If someone was asking about upgrading from a K-500 to something better for stills, would we suggesting a 645Z?

[Tanzer]

Some people on here refuse to appreciate the fact that a DSLR allows someone with a small budget to get high-end video quality without spending five figures on a video camera.

I have a GH4 myself, and as I said earlier, I can recommend it for many users. But it depends on what you want to do. To say it is the only right choice for someone, who later stated they are doing event-type work, is a blind disservice.

They say DSLR's are for taking pictures...

I've heard people say this too, but not on this thread. I only use my GH4 for video (precisely because it is not a very good stills camera).

... and if you want good video, then buy a good video camera.

Again I'm not sure who you are referring to. That seems like a very black-and-white statement. Kind of like blurting out that a DSLR is the only right choice for someone, regardless of what you want to do.

These sticks-in-the-mud make it unpleasant to even discuss video features on the forum.

That's an interesting comment from someone who has not actually posted any information to this thread, regarding important video features, or videography.

---------- Post added 08-20-15 at 11:23 PM ----------

A DSLR is a camera, with a sensor, and a mirror in front of it to bounce light up into the optical viewfinder.
Flip that mirror up and you have live view, a sensor with no obstruction in front of it.

Correct.

This, and the way a DSLR undertakes phase detection auto focus, is the only difference between a DSLR and a mirrorless camera.

Also correct, but I'm not sure that was ever in question.

DSLR's ARE used in all sorts of event videography.

Excellent, we are in agreement, a solid 3 out of 3!


Now, let's see if you agree with these statements:

- Video is a lot more than about image quality. (Some "pros" actually have the audacity to claim that sound is more important than video, if you can believe that -- Do you?)

- Because of electronic shutters used in video vs. mechanical shutters (when used) for stills, rolling shutter for a moving object (or moving camera) may be more noticeable in video than it is in still images. And, larger sensors have more rolling shutter than smaller sensors.

- Like photography, your subject must always be in focus. Getting a moving subject in a moving scene in focus is more challenging in video than in photography. Because they are moving. No amount of post can fix an out-of-focus shot.

- Shutter angle should remain at or close to 180 degrees, so that leaves gain, iris, and ND filters. Practically speaking, this means that adjusting exposure dynamically during a scene can only be done using a de-clicked iris, except on cameras that have continuously variable gain.

- This is just a smattering of issues facing the videographer. Since PF is a mostly photograpy-centric forum that might explain why nobody has identified these issues, and we're on page 6 of the thread. (You can agree or disagree with this item too.)

My apologies to anyone who feels it is unpleasant to discuss video features on the forum. It might be related to the fact we all shoot Pentax.

[Steve.Ledger]

I'll fight for your right to an opinion, Tanzer but I do feel this is turning into a pissing contest.
For the record, my opinion is that audio in most cases is more important. Excellent video footage can be spoiled by lousy audio, rarely the other way around.

The OP made his choice already, no need to imply disapproval of it.

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Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 08-20-2015 at 10:30 PM.

[richandfleur]

Agree Steve.

I mentioned sound amongst other items on page 4.

game over in this thread for me. Good luck to the op.

[Edgar_in_Indy]

They say DSLR's are for taking pictures, and if you want good video, then buy a good video camera.

I've heard people say this too, but not on this thread. I only use my GH4 for video (precisely because it is not a very good stills camera).

That's funny, because it seemed to me that you just said it was your "main point" that just because you *can* make video with a "stills" camera, does not mean you *should*. On the previous page you said "My main point is, the fact that some stills cameras can take video, is a red herring. The experience of shooting stills and video is different."

That's an interesting comment from someone who has not actually posted any information to this thread, regarding important video features, or videography.

I've been following this thread, but I haven't gotten involved since I recently had a disappointing experience trying to discuss video features on the forum. Would you like me to get your permission before posting in the future?

[Tanzer]

Maybe I should have added sarc tags to my comment regarding audio? Anyhow ....

Hi all,

I did my first professional shoot yesterday on my k500 and go pro hero4. Camera performed better than I thought even if I was hand holding a lot. Followed a lot of your tips.

Here is the video: (please do not share, this is for internal use only)

https://youtu.be/iWkwVhM4vvg

I just had a chance to watch your video. (Didn't want to view it at work that day, then forgot when I got home.) I think it looks quite nice. I really think the mix of locked-down shots and handheld works well. The initial establishing shots being stationary helped. Although the K500 and GoPro footage doesn't intercut very well, you will find it much easier to intercut the G7 footage with the GP.

One thing, you broke the 4th wall at 0:19-0:21 with your reflection in the bus. That is okay for some work but not so great for a music video.

I also watched your E46 video, I really liked that a lot. The focus pulls from 0:09 to 0:19 had a lot of breathing. It wasn't so obvious from 0:00 to 0:09. So I would either reframe the shots so the focus breathing was not so obvious, limit the range of the pull, or use a slider move. A manual focus lens would give you a smoother pull as well. But overall, I liked that a lot. The cooler color cast suited the mood.

Good luck with the G7. Not sure of the base ISO on the G7, but on the GH4 it is ISO 200. You will probably want to pick up a good 2- or 3-stop ND filter, because in bright daylight, you will find that you need to stop down to at least f/22 or get the exposure in check.

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Last edited by Tanzer; 08-21-2015 at 09:57 AM.

[Tanzer]

That's funny, because it seemed to me that you just said it was your "main point" that just because you *can* make video with a "stills" camera, does not mean you *should* ...."[/I]

I shoot a GH4 for video because it suits my needs. But other people's needs may be different. It is wrong to carte blanche rule out dedicated professional video cameras for ENG work, like the XA20, which can cost less than a DSLR setup with a lens, and provides useful features. Or even the G30, which is much cheaper and still carries many of the same critical features.

I don't see any contradiction in my statements, and stand by them. I think you have misquoted my position regarding videocameras, and DSLRs and should do the right thing.

I've been following this thread, but I haven't gotten involved since I recently had a disappointing experience trying to discuss video features on the forum

Sorry if you had a bad experience, but it didn't come from me. I don't keep score but I seem to recall your posts have historically been quite reasonable and informative. If you can point to some time where I denigrated one of your posts or otherwise offended you, I apologize. But there is no need for name calling. (Stick in the mud? Seriously?)

[Edgar_in_Indy]

Sorry if you had a bad experience, but it didn't come from me. I don't keep score but I seem to recall your posts have historically been quite reasonable and informative. If you can point to some time where I denigrated one of your posts or otherwise offended you, I apologize. But there is no need for name calling. (Stick in the mud? Seriously?)

No, you weren't involved in that thread, so no hard feelings there. I don't think "stick-in-the-mud" is very high on the list of offensive names, but regardless I agree that probably does not describe you.

I actually had two groups of people in mind: Those who say "We don't need video!", and those who (needlessly, I think) point out that a consumer DSLR is not the same as a dedicated high-end video camera.

The "We don't need video!" group on the forum gets up in arms when somebody suggests that Pentax should have better video-specific features. These are the ones that I would really describe as sticks-in-the-mud. They're usually old-school guys who started out with film and state they have no interest in doing video and they would be happier if their Pentax didn't have any video features whatsoever. Call them purists, or sticks-in-the-mud, or whatever, but some of them get kind of hostile when the topic of video comes up.

You don't belong in that camp since you are definitely not anti-video. I appreciate you sharing your experiences with video and with the GH4. That is a camera that I have considered more than once in the past.

I just think you should keep in mind that not everybody has the budget to maintain a nice photography kit and then on top of that acquire an equally nice video setup. Most people already realize that they will have a better experience and get better results using quality, specialized video tools, but that misses the point. With a few key features added here and there, DSLR's are "good enough" for a lot of us when it comes to video. They can give results that in many ways are more pleasing than what a budget consumer camcorder provides.

I would love to have a GH4 and the corresponding lenses to compliment my Pentax DSLR, but with my family's budget, it is not likely to happen anytime soon.

[jonsalty]

Maybe I should have added sarc tags to my comment regarding audio? Anyhow ....



I just had a chance to watch your video. (Didn't want to view it at work that day, then forgot when I got home.) I think it looks quite nice. I really think the mix of locked-down shots and handheld works well. The initial establishing shots being stationary helped. Although the K500 and GoPro footage doesn't intercut very well, you will find it much easier to intercut the G7 footage with the GP.

One thing, you broke the 4th wall at 0:19-0:21 with your reflection in the bus. That is okay for some work but not so great for a music video.

I also watched your E46 video, I really liked that a lot. The focus pulls from 0:09 to 0:19 had a lot of breathing. It wasn't so obvious from 0:00 to 0:09. So I would either reframe the shots so the focus breathing was not so obvious, limit the range of the pull, or use a slider move. A manual focus lens would give you a smoother pull as well. But overall, I liked that a lot. The cooler color cast suited the mood.

Good luck with the G7. Not sure of the base ISO on the G7, but on the GH4 it is ISO 200. You will probably want to pick up a good 2- or 3-stop ND filter, because in bright daylight, you will find that you need to stop down to at least f/22 or get the exposure in check.

Thanks mate. I really appreciate your feedback.
I'm by no means a professional videographer I certainly don't do it for a living however I own a marketing company (small) and really enjoy photography and videography so began to learn how to record events for clients.
Since my last message I have gained another client.
This means from now I have 3 proper sized videography contracts which I am glad I have the g7 for. I am still yet to give it a practise run but I did notice that I will be requiring an ND filter for sure.
Thanks again for looking at my other video too. That was my first attempt at video . It was great fun to do too.

[Tanzer]

no hard feelings there

Likewise, brother. We're all good.

The common thread here is that we are all heavily invested in Pentax and frustrated about the video limitations. For various reasons, I gave up waiting, and found another solution. But I don't really want to grow another lens collection, and adapting my K-mount lenses has other limitations. So I'd still like for Pentax to improve things.

I'm by no means a professional videographer I certainly don't do it for a living however I own a marketing company (small) and really enjoy photography and videography so began to learn how to record events for clients.
Since my last message I have gained another client.

Congrats on the growing clientele. It might not be your primary job, but if you are making some income from it, and are starting to offset some of your equipment expenses, well, then, you are a professional!

[kadajawi]

Edgar, you are preaching to the choir. Those individuals are in some other place on this forum, and I find them rather annoying too. There seem to be fewer these days though, or they keep quiet now.

[jonsalty]

And finally.
Here is the footage that I recorded on my new Panasonic Lumix G7.
I shot it in 4k so if you're watching it from a pc be sure to crank up the quality. If you saw my last post which was the same project recorded on my pentax I'm hoping that you'll see the difference in quality.

I welcome all forms of creative feedback too

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[Steve.Ledger]

Definitely superior video IQ.
Did you use an IOS lens?

How does the camera build feel? Last LUMIX I held was a p.o.s

[PiDicus Rex]

Thumbs up for the vision. Noted a few judders from the tripod, and few rough handheld shots, but they're the sort of thing only other cinematographers will note.

Thumbs down for the vocals audio - most of the instruments were clear, but the voice, couldn't understand what was being sung most of the way through.