Multiple Pentax cameras and video shooting

johnmflores · 02-17-2016, 09:03 PM

Panasonic "solved" the 4GB SD card problem back in 2012 with the GH2. That little beast can record for 90 minutes of HD video on an SD card and still have battery left over. It creates multiple files on the card that most editors know how to automagically combine into a single piece of footage.

richandfleur · 02-17-2016, 10:04 PM

Yeah K-1 has movie SR so that new uprated sr system doesn't get used in video mode, apparently.

And once again you can't use focus peaking during video recording.

And one assumes the bit rate is the same.

And it can do 1080 at 30fps or 60i.

This side of things is really starting to show its age, and Pentax is falling to the bottom now. Fuji was always pretty crap at video, but their latest has improved in this area.

Steve.Ledger · 02-18-2016, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

That's not correct. Most Windows 32 bit machines support NTFS and, recent versions, also exFAT, which all allow files >4 GB.
The "32 bit" in Windows 32 bit is about not being able to utilize more than 4GB of RAM. It has nothing to do with file size..

Sorry you're right, I mean't FAT32 machines but failed to include that comment.

kadajawi · 02-19-2016, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by dcshooter

K5 originally only supported SDHC, so the 4gb limit (it was a space limit, not time) was designed with its FAT32 filesystem in mind. However, it was left in the software even after SDXC was added, probably since the sensor can't make it much past that amount of full hd recording before overheating and shutting off anyway.

The later cameras have time limits in order to avoid the EU camcorder tax. The GH2 file splitting is to avoid this tax as well, not to get around the 4 gig restriction, something which Panasonic was up front about when they released the camera. It supported exFAT SDXC out of the box and splits files even where there is no 4gb limitation, even though it could theoretically be programmed to produce much longer files.

I've shot with my K-5 for 2 hours or so without a break (well, starting recording again, but that's hardly time to cool down). Or for longer durations when it is 35°C and sunny. Never had the camera shut off. Hot pixels, yeah. Plenty of hot pixels (but those mostly show when it's dark. When the ISO can low enough hot pixels are not noticeable. And I'm keen to try out that trick that is supposed to remove hot pixels in camera...

One person who was able to do a hands on says video quality has visibly improved over older Pentax cameras. Perhaps it does read more than 2 MP worth of pixels, and then downsamples them? That would help.

Shame about the not-improved encoding capabilities though... and most of all movie SR. That means the image will be cropped. You spend all the money to get a FF sensor, and then it throws those pixels away.

If the camera is aimed at beginners who have never shot a video before, deactivating an immensely useful issue because audio may be screwed up might make a tiny bit of sense. But beginners aren't going to buy a FF camera. I think it is reasonable to expect that buyers of a FF camera are capable of making decisions and understanding that some features do have trade-offs. Might as well deactivate SR for stills because hey, you could be using the camera on a tripod, and SR may screw things up there.

Last edited by kadajawi; 02-19-2016 at 01:06 PM. Reason: .

Steve.Ledger · 02-19-2016, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by kadajawi

....deactivating an immensely useful issue because audio may be screwed up might make a tiny bit of sense. But beginners aren't going to buy a FF camera. I think it is reasonable to expect that buyers of a FF camera are capable of making decisions and understanding that some features do have trade-offs. .

The argument about noise doesn't hold water. It's not there with the K-7 clips I still have, I never heard it in stills mode with the K-50 and certainly not with the Q or the MX-1 (which has a dual-SR function). Also consider that the mechanical SR is active in Movie mode in order to hold the mechanism in place (else it would flop around like it does when the camera is turned off). So this (unconfirmed) argument from Ricoh is a red herring as far as I'm concerned.
And I just want to add, that the 5-axis IBIS I now enjoy using my new Olympus OMD 'in movie mode' is also silent.

madbrain · 02-19-2016, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

Panasonic "solved" the 4GB SD card problem back in 2012 with the GH2. That little beast can record for 90 minutes of HD video on an SD card and still have battery left over. It creates multiple files on the card that most editors know how to automagically combine into a single piece of footage.

My 2008 vintage HG21 camcorder that uses SDHC and FAT16 also records continuously, and creates files when it hits the 2GB file limit (it's 2GB max on FAT16).
The file system is not what's preventing most cameras from recording continuously. Sloppy firmware is, as well as the unwillingness of most manufacturers - except Panasonic - to allow continuous recording, in order to avoid the 5% taxes on video cameras.
I would pay 20% more to get continuous recording, easily ....

---------- Post added 02-19-16 at 07:51 PM ----------

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Sorry you're right, I mean't FAT32 machines but failed to include that comment.

Those would be Win95/Win95/WinME . None of which have been supported for a very long time. I suppose some people may still be running them. Or have chosen to format their hard drive FAT32 only in WinXP and above, rather than NTFS
I think most people buying a video camera in 2016 aren't running those old OSes with only FAT32, though. In any case, the main problem is not the 4GB limit - cameras could split the recording into multiple files. The problem is that the camera stops recording, and needs to be restarted, which causes an interruption in footage, not acceptable for live music. Also, the mirror slaps in some cases on Pentax when that happens, ruining the take.

PiDicus Rex · 02-22-2016, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

My 2008 vintage HG21 camcorder that uses SDHC and FAT16 also records continuously, and creates files when it hits the 2GB file limit (it's 2GB max on FAT16).

Ditto my JVC GZ-HD7 - one of the first HD cameras with internal HDD, drops about three frames as it starts the next file, on SD-HC or the internal drive.
Most of the 'Camcorder' body style cameras have file spanning, and it's an option for anyone running Magic Lantern on a Canon DLSR

madbrain · 02-22-2016, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

Ditto my JVC GZ-HD7 - one of the first HD cameras with internal HDD, drops about three frames as it starts the next file, on SD-HC or the internal drive.
Most of the 'Camcorder' body style cameras have file spanning, and it's an option for anyone running Magic Lantern on a Canon DLSR

I think my Canon doesn't drop any video frame when spanning, either on internal HDD or on the SDHC card.

Magic Lantern in my experience drops about 1-2s worth of video and audio on the T3i.

richandfleur · 02-29-2016, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

The argument about noise doesn't hold water. --- So this (unconfirmed) argument from Ricoh is a red herring as far as I'm concerned.
And I just want to add, that the 5-axis IBIS I now enjoy using my new Olympus OMD 'in movie mode' is also silent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSxy6WhianY&feature=player_embedded#t=247

You Tube

Check out this dude at 4:07 in...

Steve.Ledger · 02-29-2016, 02:56 AM - **1 Like**

Yep, at last from the horses (or one of the stable boy's) mouth.
But still makes zero sense from a consumers point of view.
Oh well, I solved the problem while I had the K-50 (at additional expense) and now I've solved the problem for good.

PiDicus Rex · 02-29-2016, 08:49 AM

I'd say that's bullshit to his face if I was reporting... Then point out that every other manufacturer is turning on the tech that they turned off.

richandfleur · 02-29-2016, 12:24 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

I'd say that's bullshit to his face if I was reporting... Then point out that every other manufacturer is turning on the tech that they turned off.

Pentax should be at the forefront of this.
My K100d was sensor stabilised probably 10 years ago. Video arrived with sensor stabilisation in 2009 with the K-7 and then the whole K-5 series.
These guys should be class leaders in all things sensor stabilisation. To turn that feature off in video is just mental, especially if noise really is the issue.

Do that manual exclaimer thing where you provide a switch and then let the user decide if it's a big deal for them or not.

kadajawi · 02-29-2016, 12:59 PM - **2 Likes**

It's the same answer they gave last year. But instead of following up to the question Pentaxforums just goes along with it. What's wrong with adding "yeah, ok, but many users on our forum say that they don't care, and they want the feature regardless. They use external microphones and recorders. And what about all the other brands who do offer SR for video, and see great success with it? Who specially create videos to advertise the feature?"? While I appreciate the effort, there are better interviewers out there. But maybe Pentax doesn't want it that way, they don't want something spontaneous.

PiDicus Rex · 03-05-2016, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

It's the same answer they gave last year. But instead of following up to the question Pentaxforums just goes along with it. What's wrong with adding "yeah, ok, but many users on our forum say that they don't care, and they want the feature regardless. They use external microphones and recorders. And what about all the other brands who do offer SR for video, and see great success with it? Who specially create videos to advertise the feature?"

here here!, seconded!, VERY DISAPOINTED with the interviewer.
It's long passed time for the interview questions to indicate the User Dissatisfaction with that response from Pentax - It's one of the few direct feedback channels available, and it's showing the same sort of "These are 'Stills Cameras' " Luddite response that one deals with anytime we ask about video functionality.

---------- Post added 05-03-16 at 10:45 PM ----------

Originally posted by richandfleur

Pentax should be at the forefront of this. My K100d was sensor stabilised probably 10 years ago. Video arrived with sensor stabilisation in 2009 with the K-7 and then the whole K-5 series. These guys should be class leaders in all things sensor stabilisation. To turn that feature off in video is just mental, especially if noise really is the issue. Do that manual exclaimer thing where you provide a switch and then let the user decide if it's a big deal for them or not.

Spot on Richard.

kadajawi · 03-05-2016, 09:23 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

here here!, seconded!, VERY DISAPOINTED with the interviewer.
It's long passed time for the interview questions to indicate the User Dissatisfaction with that response from Pentax - It's one of the few direct feedback channels available, and it's showing the same sort of "These are 'Stills Cameras' " Luddite response that one deals with anytime we ask about video functionality.

---------- Post added 05-03-16 at 10:45 PM ----------

Spot on Richard.

It's not even that, I think. It just shows massive ignorance. If the Ricoh rep is honest, they are just clueless and think it's in our best interest to keep SR off.

If only the interview followed up and said... hey, what about those users who say they don't care about SR? Pentaxforums asked the same question last year, and got the same response. What was the point in asking it again? Just one more line would have been enough... to say that users say they don't care about audio, and they'd like to have SR. What would Ricoh have responded to that? THAT would have been interesting.

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02-17-2016, 09:03 PM	#31
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Panasonic "solved" the 4GB SD card problem back in 2012 with the GH2. That little beast can record for 90 minutes of HD video on an SD card and still have battery left over. It creates multiple files on the card that most editors know how to automagically combine into a single piece of footage.

02-17-2016, 10:04 PM	#32
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Yeah K-1 has movie SR so that new uprated sr system doesn't get used in video mode, apparently. And once again you can't use focus peaking during video recording. And one assumes the bit rate is the same. And it can do 1080 at 30fps or 60i. This side of things is really starting to show its age, and Pentax is falling to the bottom now. Fuji was always pretty crap at video, but their latest has improved in this area.

02-18-2016, 02:06 PM	#33
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by madbrain That's not correct. Most Windows 32 bit machines support NTFS and, recent versions, also exFAT, which all allow files >4 GB. The "32 bit" in Windows 32 bit is about not being able to utilize more than 4GB of RAM. It has nothing to do with file size.. Sorry you're right, I mean't FAT32 machines but failed to include that comment.

02-19-2016, 01:01 PM	#34
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by dcshooter K5 originally only supported SDHC, so the 4gb limit (it was a space limit, not time) was designed with its FAT32 filesystem in mind. However, it was left in the software even after SDXC was added, probably since the sensor can't make it much past that amount of full hd recording before overheating and shutting off anyway. The later cameras have time limits in order to avoid the EU camcorder tax. The GH2 file splitting is to avoid this tax as well, not to get around the 4 gig restriction, something which Panasonic was up front about when they released the camera. It supported exFAT SDXC out of the box and splits files even where there is no 4gb limitation, even though it could theoretically be programmed to produce much longer files. I've shot with my K-5 for 2 hours or so without a break (well, starting recording again, but that's hardly time to cool down). Or for longer durations when it is 35°C and sunny. Never had the camera shut off. Hot pixels, yeah. Plenty of hot pixels (but those mostly show when it's dark. When the ISO can low enough hot pixels are not noticeable. And I'm keen to try out that trick that is supposed to remove hot pixels in camera... One person who was able to do a hands on says video quality has visibly improved over older Pentax cameras. Perhaps it does read more than 2 MP worth of pixels, and then downsamples them? That would help. Shame about the not-improved encoding capabilities though... and most of all movie SR. That means the image will be cropped. You spend all the money to get a FF sensor, and then it throws those pixels away. If the camera is aimed at beginners who have never shot a video before, deactivating an immensely useful issue because audio may be screwed up might make a tiny bit of sense. But beginners aren't going to buy a FF camera. I think it is reasonable to expect that buyers of a FF camera are capable of making decisions and understanding that some features do have trade-offs. Might as well deactivate SR for stills because hey, you could be using the camera on a tripod, and SR may screw things up there. Last edited by kadajawi; 02-19-2016 at 01:06 PM. Reason: .

02-19-2016, 01:42 PM	#35
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by kadajawi ....deactivating an immensely useful issue because audio may be screwed up might make a tiny bit of sense. But beginners aren't going to buy a FF camera. I think it is reasonable to expect that buyers of a FF camera are capable of making decisions and understanding that some features do have trade-offs. . The argument about noise doesn't hold water. It's not there with the K-7 clips I still have, I never heard it in stills mode with the K-50 and certainly not with the Q or the MX-1 (which has a dual-SR function). Also consider that the mechanical SR is active in Movie mode in order to hold the mechanism in place (else it would flop around like it does when the camera is turned off). So this (unconfirmed) argument from Ricoh is a red herring as far as I'm concerned. And I just want to add, that the 5-axis IBIS I now enjoy using my new Olympus OMD 'in movie mode' is also silent.

02-19-2016, 08:47 PM	#36
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	Originally posted by johnmflores Panasonic "solved" the 4GB SD card problem back in 2012 with the GH2. That little beast can record for 90 minutes of HD video on an SD card and still have battery left over. It creates multiple files on the card that most editors know how to automagically combine into a single piece of footage. My 2008 vintage HG21 camcorder that uses SDHC and FAT16 also records continuously, and creates files when it hits the 2GB file limit (it's 2GB max on FAT16). The file system is not what's preventing most cameras from recording continuously. Sloppy firmware is, as well as the unwillingness of most manufacturers - except Panasonic - to allow continuous recording, in order to avoid the 5% taxes on video cameras. I would pay 20% more to get continuous recording, easily .... ---------- Post added 02-19-16 at 07:51 PM ---------- Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Sorry you're right, I mean't FAT32 machines but failed to include that comment. Those would be Win95/Win95/WinME . None of which have been supported for a very long time. I suppose some people may still be running them. Or have chosen to format their hard drive FAT32 only in WinXP and above, rather than NTFS I think most people buying a video camera in 2016 aren't running those old OSes with only FAT32, though. In any case, the main problem is not the 4GB limit - cameras could split the recording into multiple files. The problem is that the camera stops recording, and needs to be restarted, which causes an interruption in footage, not acceptable for live music. Also, the mirror slaps in some cases on Pentax when that happens, ruining the take.

02-22-2016, 02:15 PM	#37
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by madbrain My 2008 vintage HG21 camcorder that uses SDHC and FAT16 also records continuously, and creates files when it hits the 2GB file limit (it's 2GB max on FAT16). Ditto my JVC GZ-HD7 - one of the first HD cameras with internal HDD, drops about three frames as it starts the next file, on SD-HC or the internal drive. Most of the 'Camcorder' body style cameras have file spanning, and it's an option for anyone running Magic Lantern on a Canon DLSR

02-22-2016, 05:19 PM	#38
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex Ditto my JVC GZ-HD7 - one of the first HD cameras with internal HDD, drops about three frames as it starts the next file, on SD-HC or the internal drive. Most of the 'Camcorder' body style cameras have file spanning, and it's an option for anyone running Magic Lantern on a Canon DLSR I think my Canon doesn't drop any video frame when spanning, either on internal HDD or on the SDHC card. Magic Lantern in my experience drops about 1-2s worth of video and audio on the T3i.

02-29-2016, 02:56 AM - 1 Like	#40
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Yep, at last from the horses (or one of the stable boy's) mouth. But still makes zero sense from a consumers point of view. Oh well, I solved the problem while I had the K-50 (at additional expense) and now I've solved the problem for good.

02-29-2016, 08:49 AM	#41
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	I'd say that's bullshit to his face if I was reporting... Then point out that every other manufacturer is turning on the tech that they turned off.

02-29-2016, 12:24 PM - 1 Like	#42
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex I'd say that's bullshit to his face if I was reporting... Then point out that every other manufacturer is turning on the tech that they turned off. Pentax should be at the forefront of this. My K100d was sensor stabilised probably 10 years ago. Video arrived with sensor stabilisation in 2009 with the K-7 and then the whole K-5 series. These guys should be class leaders in all things sensor stabilisation. To turn that feature off in video is just mental, especially if noise really is the issue. Do that manual exclaimer thing where you provide a switch and then let the user decide if it's a big deal for them or not.

02-29-2016, 12:59 PM - 2 Likes	#43
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	It's the same answer they gave last year. But instead of following up to the question Pentaxforums just goes along with it. What's wrong with adding "yeah, ok, but many users on our forum say that they don't care, and they want the feature regardless. They use external microphones and recorders. And what about all the other brands who do offer SR for video, and see great success with it? Who specially create videos to advertise the feature?"? While I appreciate the effort, there are better interviewers out there. But maybe Pentax doesn't want it that way, they don't want something spontaneous.

03-05-2016, 04:43 AM	#44
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by kadajawi It's the same answer they gave last year. But instead of following up to the question Pentaxforums just goes along with it. What's wrong with adding "yeah, ok, but many users on our forum say that they don't care, and they want the feature regardless. They use external microphones and recorders. And what about all the other brands who do offer SR for video, and see great success with it? Who specially create videos to advertise the feature?" here here!, seconded!, VERY DISAPOINTED with the interviewer. It's long passed time for the interview questions to indicate the User Dissatisfaction with that response from Pentax - It's one of the few direct feedback channels available, and it's showing the same sort of "These are 'Stills Cameras' " Luddite response that one deals with anytime we ask about video functionality. ---------- Post added 05-03-16 at 10:45 PM ---------- Originally posted by richandfleur Pentax should be at the forefront of this. My K100d was sensor stabilised probably 10 years ago. Video arrived with sensor stabilisation in 2009 with the K-7 and then the whole K-5 series. These guys should be class leaders in all things sensor stabilisation. To turn that feature off in video is just mental, especially if noise really is the issue. Do that manual exclaimer thing where you provide a switch and then let the user decide if it's a big deal for them or not. Spot on Richard.

03-05-2016, 09:23 AM - 1 Like	#45
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex here here!, seconded!, VERY DISAPOINTED with the interviewer. It's long passed time for the interview questions to indicate the User Dissatisfaction with that response from Pentax - It's one of the few direct feedback channels available, and it's showing the same sort of "These are 'Stills Cameras' " Luddite response that one deals with anytime we ask about video functionality. ---------- Post added 05-03-16 at 10:45 PM ---------- Spot on Richard. It's not even that, I think. It just shows massive ignorance. If the Ricoh rep is honest, they are just clueless and think it's in our best interest to keep SR off. If only the interview followed up and said... hey, what about those users who say they don't care about SR? Pentaxforums asked the same question last year, and got the same response. What was the point in asking it again? Just one more line would have been enough... to say that users say they don't care about audio, and they'd like to have SR. What would Ricoh have responded to that? THAT would have been interesting.