What do you guys do for video?

PiDicus Rex · 07-08-2017, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by CDW

And I was involved with early analog HD demonstrations in conjunction with NHK, HBO, Bell South (Labs) before the ATSC was formed. I have no idea what you're talking about...do you?

Yes I do, and I'm trying not to be condescending with my use of language.

Originally posted by CDW

The decision to transition to a 1080 interlace standard was promoted by NHK and CBS and was an issue of bandwidth utilization

Yup, and the rest of the world wanted 1080 @ 50P

CDW · 07-10-2017, 03:37 PM

There may have been discussions among members of the standards committees (ATSC, EBU, SMPTE, CCIR, etc) regarding frame rates and interlace vs progressive. At the time the HDTV standards were finalized CRT displays were the typical display device and the 50/60Hz frame rates were more likely a holdover from analog days.

As with most technologies, compatibility with the past represent a significant part of a discussion when implementing change or evolving standards. This was certainly the case with HDTV and in North America and Europe, the major issue was one of what type of modulation scheme. As it turned out, various methods were selected and today they are a bit all over the map in terms of how they work and why they were chosen.

The far bigger issue in North America had to do with resolution. Rupert Murdoch/FOX wanted to adopt 480P, calling it good enough. ABC wanted 720P, arguing the fluidity of progressive display for sports. At the time, industry insiders felt ABC adopted 720P as a delaying tactic to avoid spending hundreds of millions of dollars in converting to HD capability, taking advantage of an FCC ruling at the time allowing a legal delay if studio equipment did not exist for a format. CBS, NBC, PBS adopted 1080i and while the merits of progressive vs interlace can, and were argued, the public at large could have cared less.

At this point, any rehashing of the past is somewhat moot. The proposed ATSC 3.0 standards address issues of the past and recognizes there is more to implementing UHD than simply offering more resolution.

kadajawi · 07-10-2017, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by CDW

The conditioning is more relevant to film makers than the public at large. Audiences are more attracted by the story than the technical presentation and are willing to adapt. Viewers lived with awful VHS for a couple of decades, then DVD arrived, followed by BluRay and HD.

I personally find the argument that a 'filmic' look transports one from reality a bit of a stretch. Stage plays are certainly more real, and intimate, than film or HD and stage audiences have no issue with the 'realness'.

As with many things, your mileage may vary.

One just needs to look at the reception of The Hobbit. While the movies certainly had its fair share of problems in terms of story telling etc., much of the criticism was about the higher frame rate.

24 vs 25 fps makes little difference, I agree, but why shoot at 25 fps when you can do 24?

As for the shutter speed... I would have chosen a something slower if I could. Still I think it works rather well in this situation.

And Tom: Neither Canon nor Nikon, but especially Canon give a damn about what their users want. Just look at any non Cinema EOS camera by Canon. Just look at the differences between the 550D, 600D, 650D, ... they are absolutely minuscule. These camera makers are also much more prone to limiting cameras artificially (as with Canon video offerings) so that they can sell more expensive cameras too.

surfar · 07-11-2017, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

550D

Originally posted by kadajawi

650D,

Touch screen and it articulates....that's not so miniscule.....the rest is quite similar

PiDicus Rex · 07-12-2017, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

24 vs 25 fps makes little difference, I agree, but why shoot at 25 fps when you can do 24?

For me, there's a difference - 24 for film, 25 for local TV delivery. PAL country.

---------- Post added 12-07-17 at 05:29 PM ----------

Originally posted by kadajawi

Just look at the differences between the 550D, 600D, 650D, ... they are absolutely minuscule.

Put ML on any of those three, and I'd happily shoot on them in preference to a 5D.
I can put my Pentax Primes in front without the mirror hitting the back of the lens!

kadajawi · 07-12-2017, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

For me, there's a difference - 24 for film, 25 for local TV delivery. PAL country.

---------- Post added 12-07-17 at 05:29 PM ----------

Put ML on any of those three, and I'd happily shoot on them in preference to a 5D.
I can put my Pentax Primes in front without the mirror hitting the back of the lens!

Of course you're right, 24p is for film, 25 for TV (PAL).

My choice would be the 100D. It's small, it also has ML and captures raw video at almost Full HD. But anyway, to be useful these Canon cameras need to be hacked. That's not exactly optimal, and the hack is much more complicated and risky than the Panasonic hack to get Cinelike D.

However, really, I'm rather happy with Panasonic. Just that the SR thing is annoying as hell. Having to hold the camera with one hand at 200 mm because otherwise the SR turns off is ridiculous, besides you can't get a really stable image that way as the hand is shifting around. So I'm stuck between trying to get the camera as stable as possible, but with some added shake to keep it from turning off SR. I can only hope for a bug fix.

PiDicus Rex · 07-12-2017, 10:14 PM

I'd take a second look at the power saving options, then file a bug report - on the G85 there's already been one firmware update to deal with the sensor movement being 'too loud' for some of the non-video-pro reviewers.

richandfleur · 07-22-2017, 01:26 AM

Random quick question...

Do any of the corrections work in video mode? Highlights/shadows/lens corrections etc.

kadajawi · 07-22-2017, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

I'd take a second look at the power saving options, then file a bug report - on the G85 there's already been one firmware update to deal with the sensor movement being 'too loud' for some of the non-video-pro reviewers.

Couldn't find anything, though the menus are very comprehensive... No idea where to file a bug report.

Originally posted by richandfleur

Random quick question...

Do any of the corrections work in video mode? Highlights/shadows/lens corrections etc.

Which camera? With my K-5 they work, and with the GX80 they also should work.

richandfleur · 07-22-2017, 03:16 AM

Thinking K-S1 or K-3

PiDicus Rex · 07-23-2017, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by richandfleur

Do any of the corrections work in video mode? Highlights/shadows/lens corrections etc.

On the K-01, all of the image profiles that can be applied to Jpegs in stills, are also applied to the video recording.

And yes, Negative image video can be very trippy.

I shot some fire twirling stuff over the last few weekends, and a short film 'interview' sections yesterday, so I'll be having some info on adjusting the image profiles and showing their effects with waveform displays, when I get them edited and posted to youtube.

Imp · 07-23-2017, 07:27 AM

I was trying some filming with my DA* 50-135, and it looks decent. I suppose really good lenses can be a great help for the video quality.

richandfleur · 07-23-2017, 01:30 PM - **1 Like**

Spent a whole day shooting the content for two corporate training videos yesterday. Flew an hour to location, so had to prep well.

Have solid content, but for next time will change a few things.

First is I'll switch to full manual. Had used AV mode with auto centre weighted metering. This worked really well in most aspects but certain subject matter totally throws the exposure at times, as the metering compensates.

This should also allow me to cap the ISO, which I couldn't seem to adjust in AV mode.

Secondly I will investigate the highlight and shadow correction, as a lot of the highlights are blown. Anything I can do to tweak this in camera would be really beneficial.

Apart from that, it was really solid. Went through two K-3 batteries but had the K-S1 as a backup.

Great experience. Just need a way to unlock the pro video modes on the Pentax now

TomGarn · 07-24-2017, 08:14 PM

@richandfleur ... Tell us more and show it please.
What camera, what footage, what mistakes and errors...
Problem with Pentaxists is they live in dreams of any future to come true.

richandfleur · 07-25-2017, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by TomGarn

@richandfleur ... Tell us more and show it please.
What camera, what footage, what mistakes and errors...
Problem with Pentaxists is they live in dreams of any future to come true.

I think it's outlined pretty well above, but if you'd like to be more specific I'd be happy to provide more info.
Camera was a K-3 and K-S1, as mentioned above.
Mistakes were to not fix the exposure, so the metering fluctuated as subjects walked in front and the metering compensated for their darker clothing.
Can't show you the footage as it's a commercial job.

Keen to hear if anyone has used the highlight and shadow correction, and what they found the results to be like. I'll test myself when I get a moment.

07-10-2017, 09:59 PM	#168
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by CDW The conditioning is more relevant to film makers than the public at large. Audiences are more attracted by the story than the technical presentation and are willing to adapt. Viewers lived with awful VHS for a couple of decades, then DVD arrived, followed by BluRay and HD. I personally find the argument that a 'filmic' look transports one from reality a bit of a stretch. Stage plays are certainly more real, and intimate, than film or HD and stage audiences have no issue with the 'realness'. As with many things, your mileage may vary. One just needs to look at the reception of The Hobbit. While the movies certainly had its fair share of problems in terms of story telling etc., much of the criticism was about the higher frame rate. 24 vs 25 fps makes little difference, I agree, but why shoot at 25 fps when you can do 24? As for the shutter speed... I would have chosen a something slower if I could. Still I think it works rather well in this situation. And Tom: Neither Canon nor Nikon, but especially Canon give a damn about what their users want. Just look at any non Cinema EOS camera by Canon. Just look at the differences between the 550D, 600D, 650D, ... they are absolutely minuscule. These camera makers are also much more prone to limiting cameras artificially (as with Canon video offerings) so that they can sell more expensive cameras too. Last edited by kadajawi; 07-10-2017 at 10:35 PM.

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07-08-2017, 05:53 PM	#166
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by CDW And I was involved with early analog HD demonstrations in conjunction with NHK, HBO, Bell South (Labs) before the ATSC was formed. I have no idea what you're talking about...do you? Yes I do, and I'm trying not to be condescending with my use of language. Originally posted by CDW The decision to transition to a 1080 interlace standard was promoted by NHK and CBS and was an issue of bandwidth utilization Yup, and the rest of the world wanted 1080 @ 50P

07-10-2017, 03:37 PM	#167
CDW Site Supporter Join Date: May 2011 Location: Big Island, Hawaii & Utah Posts: 457	There may have been discussions among members of the standards committees (ATSC, EBU, SMPTE, CCIR, etc) regarding frame rates and interlace vs progressive. At the time the HDTV standards were finalized CRT displays were the typical display device and the 50/60Hz frame rates were more likely a holdover from analog days. As with most technologies, compatibility with the past represent a significant part of a discussion when implementing change or evolving standards. This was certainly the case with HDTV and in North America and Europe, the major issue was one of what type of modulation scheme. As it turned out, various methods were selected and today they are a bit all over the map in terms of how they work and why they were chosen. The far bigger issue in North America had to do with resolution. Rupert Murdoch/FOX wanted to adopt 480P, calling it good enough. ABC wanted 720P, arguing the fluidity of progressive display for sports. At the time, industry insiders felt ABC adopted 720P as a delaying tactic to avoid spending hundreds of millions of dollars in converting to HD capability, taking advantage of an FCC ruling at the time allowing a legal delay if studio equipment did not exist for a format. CBS, NBC, PBS adopted 1080i and while the merits of progressive vs interlace can, and were argued, the public at large could have cared less. At this point, any rehashing of the past is somewhat moot. The proposed ATSC 3.0 standards address issues of the past and recognizes there is more to implementing UHD than simply offering more resolution.

07-11-2017, 01:28 AM	#169
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,144	Originally posted by kadajawi 550D Originally posted by kadajawi 650D, Touch screen and it articulates....that's not so miniscule.....the rest is quite similar

07-12-2017, 12:27 AM	#170
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by kadajawi 24 vs 25 fps makes little difference, I agree, but why shoot at 25 fps when you can do 24? For me, there's a difference - 24 for film, 25 for local TV delivery. PAL country. ---------- Post added 12-07-17 at 05:29 PM ---------- Originally posted by kadajawi Just look at the differences between the 550D, 600D, 650D, ... they are absolutely minuscule. Put ML on any of those three, and I'd happily shoot on them in preference to a 5D. I can put my Pentax Primes in front without the mirror hitting the back of the lens!

07-12-2017, 01:04 PM	#171
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex For me, there's a difference - 24 for film, 25 for local TV delivery. PAL country. ---------- Post added 12-07-17 at 05:29 PM ---------- Put ML on any of those three, and I'd happily shoot on them in preference to a 5D. I can put my Pentax Primes in front without the mirror hitting the back of the lens! Of course you're right, 24p is for film, 25 for TV (PAL). My choice would be the 100D. It's small, it also has ML and captures raw video at almost Full HD. But anyway, to be useful these Canon cameras need to be hacked. That's not exactly optimal, and the hack is much more complicated and risky than the Panasonic hack to get Cinelike D. However, really, I'm rather happy with Panasonic. Just that the SR thing is annoying as hell. Having to hold the camera with one hand at 200 mm because otherwise the SR turns off is ridiculous, besides you can't get a really stable image that way as the hand is shifting around. So I'm stuck between trying to get the camera as stable as possible, but with some added shake to keep it from turning off SR. I can only hope for a bug fix.

07-12-2017, 10:14 PM	#172
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	I'd take a second look at the power saving options, then file a bug report - on the G85 there's already been one firmware update to deal with the sensor movement being 'too loud' for some of the non-video-pro reviewers.

07-22-2017, 01:26 AM	#173
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Random quick question... Do any of the corrections work in video mode? Highlights/shadows/lens corrections etc.

07-22-2017, 01:53 AM	#174
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex I'd take a second look at the power saving options, then file a bug report - on the G85 there's already been one firmware update to deal with the sensor movement being 'too loud' for some of the non-video-pro reviewers. Couldn't find anything, though the menus are very comprehensive... No idea where to file a bug report. Originally posted by richandfleur Random quick question... Do any of the corrections work in video mode? Highlights/shadows/lens corrections etc. Which camera? With my K-5 they work, and with the GX80 they also should work.

07-22-2017, 03:16 AM	#175
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Thinking K-S1 or K-3

07-23-2017, 01:30 AM	#176
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by richandfleur Do any of the corrections work in video mode? Highlights/shadows/lens corrections etc. On the K-01, all of the image profiles that can be applied to Jpegs in stills, are also applied to the video recording. And yes, Negative image video can be very trippy. I shot some fire twirling stuff over the last few weekends, and a short film 'interview' sections yesterday, so I'll be having some info on adjusting the image profiles and showing their effects with waveform displays, when I get them edited and posted to youtube.

07-23-2017, 07:27 AM	#177
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	I was trying some filming with my DA* 50-135, and it looks decent. I suppose really good lenses can be a great help for the video quality.

07-23-2017, 01:30 PM - 1 Like	#178
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Spent a whole day shooting the content for two corporate training videos yesterday. Flew an hour to location, so had to prep well. Have solid content, but for next time will change a few things. First is I'll switch to full manual. Had used AV mode with auto centre weighted metering. This worked really well in most aspects but certain subject matter totally throws the exposure at times, as the metering compensates. This should also allow me to cap the ISO, which I couldn't seem to adjust in AV mode. Secondly I will investigate the highlight and shadow correction, as a lot of the highlights are blown. Anything I can do to tweak this in camera would be really beneficial. Apart from that, it was really solid. Went through two K-3 batteries but had the K-S1 as a backup. Great experience. Just need a way to unlock the pro video modes on the Pentax now

07-24-2017, 08:14 PM	#179
TomGarn Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Hamburg Posts: 339	@richandfleur ... Tell us more and show it please. What camera, what footage, what mistakes and errors... Problem with Pentaxists is they live in dreams of any future to come true.

07-25-2017, 02:02 AM	#180
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by TomGarn @richandfleur ... Tell us more and show it please. What camera, what footage, what mistakes and errors... Problem with Pentaxists is they live in dreams of any future to come true. I think it's outlined pretty well above, but if you'd like to be more specific I'd be happy to provide more info. Camera was a K-3 and K-S1, as mentioned above. Mistakes were to not fix the exposure, so the metering fluctuated as subjects walked in front and the metering compensated for their darker clothing. Can't show you the footage as it's a commercial job. Keen to hear if anyone has used the highlight and shadow correction, and what they found the results to be like. I'll test myself when I get a moment.