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01-27-2017, 08:47 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
When 4K video becomes a de facto standard Pentax bodies will have 4K video.
Methinks you underestimate the effort to make a large sensor camera with 4k video. It's not just a flick of a switch. Panasonic has been working years on power management and heat management and image processing and image stabilization and autofocus so on and so on. There's no way that Pentax can decide to do 4k and be competitive immediately.

---------- Post added 01-27-17 at 11:05 PM ----------

I love that I can pull 8 megapickle stills from the 4k video that I shoot:


Nebraska
by John Flores, on Flickr

It's kind of like shooting JPGs so you gotta get it right in camera, but it's very cool to have. With an 1080P HD stream you can only pull 2 megpickle stills.

They also have this awesome 4k photo mode where you point the camera at some quick action and the moment that you hit the shutter it records the 1 second before you hit the shutter. So you can capture 8 megapickle images of a shotgun shell leaving the chamber:


Skeet shooting at Lehigh Valley Sporting Clays
by John Flores, on Flickr

I've got other shots right when the clays is shattering. It would be really hard to to that with a DSLR.

Or the ball about to get past the catcher:

Boys of summer
by John Flores, on Flickr

Or your nephew making good contact with the ball:



So besides video, 4K has some interesting uses for stills.


Last edited by johnmflores; 01-27-2017 at 09:06 PM.
01-28-2017, 04:23 AM   #17
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4K video is probably nice, assuming that you have a computer and software that won't grind to a halt when you start editing it. I don't shoot much video -- mainly family stuff -- and if I do much editing with HD video, it really strains my computer in a way that shooting stills and processing them -- even large panoramas doesn't do.

The whole "I can pull an image out of a 4K video and use it," is OK, but the reality is that video is different from still photography and the images you get with a video, even a 4K video, will tend to have lower dynamic range and be less amenable to post processing than a true still image. Beyond which, the best shutter speeds for video are going to be in the 1/60th range for the most part which may or may not give sharp results when you pull out a single frame. And I can't even imagine wading through a bunch of video trying to find a still image I could use. Seems easier somehow to shoot a few still images and then capture video separately.

All that said, I hope Pentax does include 4K video on their cameras and improves video codecs to higher quality ones. I may not use it much, but I know it is important to people and it certainly doesn't hurt me to have something on my camera that I don't use all the time (or ever).
01-28-2017, 08:08 AM - 2 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
4K video is probably nice, assuming that you have a computer and software that won't grind to a halt when you start editing it. I don't shoot much video -- mainly family stuff -- and if I do much editing with HD video, it really strains my computer in a way that shooting stills and processing them -- even large panoramas doesn't do.
The newer Intel CPUs (from Skylake onwards) incorporate 4k decoding algorithms on the chip, making playback easy. Eventually, playing and editing 4k is going to be as trivial as playing and editing 1080p

QuoteQuote:
The whole "I can pull an image out of a 4K video and use it," is OK, but the reality is that video is different from still photography and the images you get with a video, even a 4K video, will tend to have lower dynamic range and be less amenable to post processing than a true still image. Beyond which, the best shutter speeds for video are going to be in the 1/60th range for the most part which may or may not give sharp results when you pull out a single frame. And I can't even imagine wading through a bunch of video trying to find a still image I could use. Seems easier somehow to shoot a few still images and then capture video separately.
As I said before, it's like shooting JPG so you have to make sure that you've got your exposure and white balance set right because there's less latitude in post. There are cameras that shoot 4k RAW (Zenmuse X5) as well.

Panasonic's 4K Photo modes are a clever way to get around the fear of wading through a long video to find the shot. They are limited to 2 seconds (60 frames) and there's a nice interface in the camera to scroll through those 60 frames to find the shot. I find it very useful when shooting sports where the action is controlled, i.e., pitching and hitting in baseball, a golf swing, a basketball free throw, etc... And the control over whether to capture those two seconds traditionally - after the shutter is pressed - or before (i.e press the shutter when the batter hits the ball and you will get the two seconds leading up to contact) is brilliant. In the same way that Pentax has evolved the uses of Shake Reduction beyond the initial scope, Panasonic is doing with 4K, and the important thing is not thinking about it but rather doing it because you learn and improve every time you do. That's evolution.

Regarding dynamic range, there's not a big difference between the photos that I am shooting and the still that I am pulling from 4k video on my Lumix GX85. The photos are more malleable because I'm shooting RAW, but I'll be submitting 4k stills for my stories and I doubt that my publisher will even notice.

And you don't have to shoot at 1/60 (or 1/50 at 24FPS). That 1/2xFPS rule of thumb is just a rule of thumb. Spielberg famously threw that out the window in the opening sequence of Saving Private Ryan and for good effect. And if the purpose is to shoot a still, you can set it at whatever you like. That photo above of the shotgun shell ejecting was likely much higher than 1/60, otherwise there'd likely be motion blur. And on this shot I slowed the shutter down slower than 1/60 because I wanted motion blur:


Buffalo NY
by John Flores, on Flickr

QuoteQuote:
All that said, I hope Pentax does include 4K video on their cameras and improves video codecs to higher quality ones. I may not use it much, but I know it is important to people and it certainly doesn't hurt me to have something on my camera that I don't use all the time (or ever).
My last 2 camera purchases have not been Pentax because of their lack of good video. I'm still 90% a stills shooter, but I want that 10% video to be good.
01-28-2017, 01:42 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
My last 2 camera purchases have not been Pentax because of their lack of good video. I'm still 90% a stills shooter, but I want that 10% video to be good.
Precisely and succinctly the point...
Also why my last camera purchases were not Pentax.

01-28-2017, 02:48 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by gerardbaron Quote
My son wish to switch from Canon to K1, but he ask me is the K1 has 4k video, I answer NO only the time laps.
So he pass and went to another brand!!!!!!!!
My son just started a retail Lacrosse gear business. Social media marketing (YouTube) is critical, as is in-store video.

I offered him my K-3 and a new PLM DA 55~300 lens free. Nope. He literally said, "Dad - everyone knows Pentax doesn't do video". (FWIW, my daughter is a Network News Producer - she was his information source).

He bought a D-70 and EF 24~105/4L IS HSM II. He figures the lens is forever and he'll upgrade the body later.

My heavens. He turned down a free camera and lens and spent $1,600 just to do YouTube and Snapchat, and in-store 42" monitors.
01-29-2017, 06:35 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I offered him my K-3 and a new PLM DA 55~300 lens free. Nope. He literally said, "Dad - everyone knows Pentax doesn't do video". (FWIW, my daughter is a Network News Producer - she was his information source)
This is no knock on your daughter, but in general producers know writing...not cameras. Heck, many news videographers don't know cameras and lenses either, for that matter. The members of this board are WAY more into the nuts and bolts of things than your average news photog.

He should have taken the K-3. It would have worked well enough for what he's doing and to get some experience under his belt.
01-29-2017, 06:59 AM - 1 Like   #22
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This is in the wrong place. The is Video and Pentax HDSLRs. Pentax doesn't make 4k video. It should be moved into the non-Pentax section.
01-29-2017, 07:03 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
This is no knock on your daughter, but in general producers know writing...not cameras. Heck, many news videographers don't know cameras and lenses either, for that matter. The members of this board are WAY more into the nuts and bolts of things than your average news photog.

He should have taken the K-3. It would have worked well enough for what he's doing and to get some experience under his belt.
Yes, he should have taken the K-3. I was illustrating how deeply the opinion is embedded.

AFA my daughter goes, the term Producer in broadcast journalism is applied well beyond the creative types who sit in cubbies and write stuff. The term actually originated to describe the people who 'do' the stuff, or make the 'doers' do it.

she knows her gear. She ascended on the technical side, through operations, first as an editor. Consequently she is intimately familiar with video formats and files, and the equipment that produces them. She did stints at D.C. Bureau producing Embassy Row then White House / EOB. She works in New York now.

She does actually know broadcast equipment, from knowledge of satellite and remote transmission all the way through to which stringers to contract for a remote, based on knowing their gear and talent. Before this assignment she was Managing Operations Producer for a nightly news magazine; she also managed operations for Breaking, and Live / Event - on call 24/7 to return Best Means Possible.

Operations means, if you saw it or heard it on the screen, she and the team she manages ordered and created it.

In this regard, 'Producer' means coordinating Talent, Location and all Technical aspects of Feature News. Her Network tried to convert Remotes from Sony Vidcams to 5D's. She reverted that decision when she figured out few videographers could operate a DSLR to broadcast standard - can't pull focus as well and sound isn't as good. OTOH she and the EP agreed the Canon color profile was so much better than Sony she ordered an color emulation algo for the Sony output.

She knows what she's talking about.


Last edited by monochrome; 01-29-2017 at 07:12 AM.
01-29-2017, 01:26 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
This is in the wrong place. The is Video and Pentax HDSLRs. Pentax doesn't make 4k video. It should be moved into the non-Pentax section.
Not 'Video only with Pentax HDSLRs'
It's all in the syntax
01-29-2017, 01:51 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Not 'Video only with Pentax HDSLRs'
It's all in the syntax
Pullleeeeeese
01-29-2017, 08:01 PM - 1 Like   #26
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Ah, but think about it. If it were only for Pentax High Def video topics then the forum would only need be named 'Pentax HDSLRs'

:P
01-29-2017, 08:22 PM - 1 Like   #27
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Yikes, just stumbled across this pretty rude post.

First up, no one can post anything meeting your criteria with a Pentax camera, as they don't offer 4K.


Secondly many (most?) users who are interested in using their Pentax cameras for video are not pushing for 4K at this point either.
Pentax could improve their video offering by addressing some basic specs aspects first, before they worry about 4K, otherwise we'll just get the same old mush in higher resolution.


Warning, I'm about to post my usual wish list again. Those who have seen this, or are bored of it, please look away now...

Return physical Sensor Stabilisation during video recording. (Provide menu option to enable/disable this if there are any audible noise issues associated with this).
Ensure no field of view cropping occurs if the inbuilt stabilisation is turned OFF.
Enable Focus Peaking during video recording.
Up the bit rates to something more modern, from the current 18Mb/s or so 2012 spec.
Enable clean HDMI out, at user selectable resolution and frame rate.
Up the maximum 1080 frame progressive rate, to enable full HD slow motion options when slowed back down in post.
Show visual on screen audio levels, so that the appropriate audio gain setting can be selected.
Offer a headphone out jack, so that the audio levels can be monitored if desired.
Allow for flashing highlights, blinking highlights, blinkies, zebras etc during video recording, to convey blown hightlights/full black exposure areas.
Consider additional video formats, in case something more suitable is available.
Provide flat a picture profile / higher bitrate option for pro users.

Then offer 2.7K resolution, so there is the ability to stabilise and crop in post if required.

Then offer 4K resolution.

Then offer 4.6K resolution, so there is the ability to stabilise and crop in post if required.


etc.


In summary: The video problems don't all centre around a lack of 4K.
01-31-2017, 01:14 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
First up, no one can post anything meeting your criteria with a Pentax camera, as they don't offer 4K.
I think Beholder's point is that anyone genuine about their need for 4k at this point would have already shot with another brand, so he would say, "Come out and be counted!"

He has chosen 4k as his metric, key performance indicator, or whatever you want to call it.

That's his right as the OP, surely.

Last edited by clackers; 01-31-2017 at 01:28 AM.
01-31-2017, 08:55 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
That's his right as the OP, surely.
It's his right to post images from non-Pentax cameras in the non-Pentax forum. There's a place for it. This isn't the place. IMHO. This is the place for folks using Petax gear to take their videos.

I should have the right to be able to avoid non-Pentax posts, when I choose not to see them.
So what's it going to be, his rights or mine?

Clearly, the "any excuse to post your non-Pentax gear posts in the Pentax section of the forum" is in this case being upheld by mods (unless this is all so trivial they don't care, a definite possibility.) My only response could be possibly starting to post Pentax images in the non-Pentax section of the forum, which to this point I've politely ignored.

Maybe I'll get really radical and post some ƒ1.4 images in the ƒ1.2 only thread.

Since I've now given them a heads up, I'll have to be really subversive and use my SMC 50 1.4 which doesn't relay exif data, and claim it's 1.2.

Just letting you know... I'm prepared to retaliate against innocents.

Last edited by normhead; 01-31-2017 at 09:06 AM.
01-31-2017, 09:43 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
*snip*

Maybe I'll get really radical and post some 1.4 images in the 1.2 only thread.

Since I've now given them a heads up, I'll have to be really subversive and use my SMC 50 1.4 which doesn't relay exif data, and claim it's 1.2.

Just letting you know... I'm prepared to retaliate against innocents.
...you meanie...
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