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02-17-2017, 01:50 AM   #31
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All the modern Pentax bodies essentially have the same video package. Hence all about the same quality.

If you are recording on a tripod for 30minutes straight, I don't think a DSLR is your necessarily the ideal weapon of choice. Bar the obvious low light issues etc, a handicam might be a better goto choice in this instance. All depends if you require the image shaping options of a DSLR for your shot. (Choice of lens used etc)

02-17-2017, 05:22 PM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
All the modern Pentax bodies essentially have the same video package. Hence all about the same quality.

If you are recording on a tripod for 30minutes straight, I don't think a DSLR is your necessarily the ideal weapon of choice. Bar the obvious low light issues etc, a handicam might be a better goto choice in this instance. All depends if you require the image shaping options of a DSLR for your shot. (Choice of lens used etc)
Well, the lowlight/indoor performance is a major issue and it's a reason I want a full-frame sensor for video and not a Handycam.
There is firmware hack for Sony A7S II and A7R II cameras to overcome the 30min video recording limit limit. Maybe when the A7S II drops down in price, I will buy a used one and use it as a 4K full-frame video camera.
02-19-2017, 09:04 AM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Compare also "new" video companies like BlackMagic, New Bolex, or even RED, who all were founded as video specific companies and have been able to allow the needs of video to influence their design decisions from the ground up.
I missed that comment the first time around.

As a Cinematographer, let me say this clearly, two out of those three company's are recognized for having some of, if not the absolute WORST, ergonomics around.

Even the Digital Bolex, which I love for it's imagery, is not good ergonomically.

From the last half decade, the ONLY cameras with large format sensor (s16, M4/3, s35, FF, MF) that have decent ergonomics, is the Aja Cion, and recently, the Canon C700.

Everything else from the Canon C-series, Sony's FS series, Kinefinity, Red, and Blackmagic Design, have damn awful ergonomics,... BMD's Ursa Mini's design, is a clear guide as to how much people hated the original Ursa layout, but even so, the Ursa Mini is very much still front heavy.

Even the Arri Alexa is far from perfect in this regard, needing add-on sections to make it relatively easy to shoulder mount.

It's a shame the Aaton Penelope Delta didn't make it to production, as it would have influence design shapes and changed the look of the current crop.

---------- Post added 20-02-17 at 03:10 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
And to add to that, the mechanism is always on when it's off because it's being held in place.. So technically it's still on when using video, just not active as shake reduction.
Good point!

I went and did a test,...

I bought a gimbal to fit to an RC Helicopter recently (it's getting a Yi4K and Letus Anamorphx next), so I mounted my current el-cheapo-clone action camera to the gimbal, then assembled a set of rails to create about a meter long arm out from my tripods head, and mounted the gimbal to that.
On top of the tripod head I mounted my K-01.
I set the K-01 to 'always on' for the Sensor Shift, and then set it to do interval shooting.
So I panned the tripod around and up and down, to test the gimbal, while the K-01 took shots.

No sign of any overheating.
02-19-2017, 12:28 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
it's getting a Yi4K

The Yi mirrorless camera is pretty rough around the edges as they get into that field, but their action cams are a classic example of a company listening proactively to feedback.


Apparently a new GoPro is coming this year, the Hero6, which I'm waiting to see, but seriously the Yi's are looking mighty attractive. They have gyro sensors built in, which they use to provide info to the onboard software stabilisation.


That fact got me wondering about the Pentax approach. Pentax has these sensors also, used for real mechanical SR, but I'm not sure if it's used on the 'Movie SR' approach. I'm fairly convinced that Ricoh Pentax went with Movie SR as a way of offering stabilisation to all it's cameras, regardless of them having mechanical stabilisation or not. I think that's why/how it turns up in the Ricoh action cams for example. Makes a lot of sense from a software coding perspective, as it's extremely easy to drop that function library into new code.


Well put another way, it would make sense if it actually worked well.


Anyhow, without gyro acceleration and level sensor input, the stabilisation is limited to what it can see in the shot only, which makes it hard to differentiate intentional movement, or sections of movement in the scene, from actual shakes.


--> side deviation over now sorry.

02-21-2017, 11:31 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Makes a lot of sense from a software coding perspective, as it's extremely easy to drop that function library into new code.
So, it should be just as easy to drop in the code for the Sensor Shift,....

It was one of the things I was hoping the Hack crowd could look at.
02-21-2017, 12:38 PM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
So, it should be just as easy to drop in the code for the Sensor Shift,....

It was one of the things I was hoping the Hack crowd could look at.


Technically the processors did change around this era too. The K-5 to K-01/K-30 is quite a bit different, so it may not be as easy as that.


However, regardless, it needs to be addressed. They at least have a model of how they did it last time, even if it's not a direct copy and paste job.
02-22-2017, 10:18 AM   #37
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They could also just copy and paste from the Stills side.

For my next test, I'm digging out an old Canopus ADVC100 analog to DV box, then running the AV out of the K-01 in to it, turning the Info display to off, and recording video while in stills mode with the sensor shift switched Always On and Power Save set to Off.

It'll only be SD quality, but will be interesting to see if the Sensor Shift is smoother then the MovieSR.

My cats are getting used to being followed around by a camera...
02-25-2017, 04:46 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Would you accept a SR system that causes the sensor to overheat after <10min of use? Until Ricoh figures out how to solve that problem, the mechanical SR during video is not coming back.
Yeah I'll take having a feature over not having one at all. As it stands the poor excuse for digital SR doesn't even count as a feature.
You can always just turn off mechanical SR if you needed to record for longer durations.

But honestly I just want Pentax to be usable, not the best. I have the desire to use my camera for stuff like Youtube but I don't feel like swapping systems just for that.

02-25-2017, 07:07 PM - 2 Likes   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Would you accept a SR system that causes the sensor to overheat after <10min of use? Until Ricoh figures out how to solve that problem, the mechanical SR during video is not coming back.
Well, it appears that it is coming back.
QuoteQuote:
5. Would it be possible to bring back mechanical stabilization in video?
So far the sensor shift is disabled in movie mode in order not to record mechanical noise. In response to our users' requests, we are planning to supply a firmware update that enables mechanical SR (shake reduction) while recording video for the K-1 and KP.
CP+ 2017 Pentax Interview: Part 1 - CP+ 2017 | PentaxForums.com
02-27-2017, 12:43 AM - 1 Like   #40
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That's some of the best news there is for us.

Next we have to encourage them to fix the HDMI
02-27-2017, 01:01 AM   #41
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It remains to be seen if the video mechanical SR enable can be retrofitted into the K-70 and earlier bodies. Since video is dependent on the PRIME (Milbeaut) processor it may have been neutered at that level. The KP and K-1 use the PRIME IV. The K-5 uses the PRIME II. In between on the bodies with digital video stabilization are the PRIME M, M II, or III. Or the improvements in the SR II may make the performance acceptable to Ricoh.
02-27-2017, 02:29 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
It remains to be seen if the video mechanical SR enable can be retrofitted into the K-70 and earlier bodies. Since video is dependent on the PRIME (Milbeaut) processor it may have been neutered at that level. The KP and K-1 use the PRIME IV. The K-5 uses the PRIME II. In between on the bodies with digital video stabilization are the PRIME M, M II, or III. Or the improvements in the SR II may make the performance acceptable to Ricoh.
Agreed.

Though if SR IS on during live view, then it may already be there on more models. It remains to be seen if it's possible with all 'Movie SR' equipped cameras also.
02-27-2017, 03:11 AM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
It remains to be seen if the video mechanical SR enable can be retrofitted into the K-70 and earlier bodies. Since video is dependent on the PRIME (Milbeaut) processor it may have been neutered at that level. The KP and K-1 use the PRIME IV. The K-5 uses the PRIME II. In between on the bodies with digital video stabilization are the PRIME M, M II, or III. Or the improvements in the SR II may make the performance acceptable to Ricoh.
One consideration is development cost. There are obviously limited resources for firmware updates, so the company has to prioritize those that are cost-effective. Common hardware / firmware helps in this respect.

For example, since the K-3 II uses an older version of the UI, it might take much more development/testing time for it to get the night vision feature than the K-1, which has the same generation UI as the K-70 that originally got this feature.

The same likely goes for SR II and the video SR, purely from a programming standpoint for the hardware driver. Obviously the original SR mechanism could also support video SR as we saw in the K-5, but implementing it in the K-3 and other recent bodies could be costly.

On top of that there are the obvious marketing/business reasons. It doesn't make sense to enhance features in a product for free when that product has been superseded in the lineup (or will be soon), because it could discourage future sales. On the other hand, it does make sense to continue supporting newly-launched lenses and accessories even in older models (i.e. how the K-r got 1.4x TC support, or the K-3 and K-50 got KAF4 support).

That said, it's always nice when the company goes out of their way to keep customers happy. They didn't have to be so generous with K-1 firmware updates, but they clearly value their loyal fans and want to go the extra mile. Perhaps other companies have set a better example in this respect, but it's never too late to start. Who wants to bet that the K-1 will be the first camera since the *ist series to get a firmware version 2.x?

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02-27-2017, 08:13 AM   #44
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Excellent points @Adam I'm sure some of us may not of taken these into consideration.
02-27-2017, 08:15 AM - 1 Like   #45
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Gonna have to disagree here.

The code for the Stills section of the firmware that drives the SR, will be the exact same code that drives it in the Video section, as it's moving the same hardware.
Model for Model, the code is already in the camera, all the 'firmware update' has to to do, is call that code to run in Video Mode, this may be as easy as an option to load a module, or copying the code in to the video section to over-write the 'MovieSR' code.

It really doesn't matter what processor generation is used, the code is already there, and already works, as demonstrated by the 'Always On' option for it in the Settings page of the Menus.
The most it should need, is parameters adjusted to allow for the extra crop that Video mode has had to have, and maybe the movement limits checked.
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