[richandfleur]

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Hi sqrrl, welcome to Pentax Forums.
I see you are from Otago, so if you haven't already, head on over to the Kiwi Pentaxians group here:
Kiwi Pentaxians - PentaxForums.com


I fully agree with what you are saying there. In video, the bitrate has a huge amount to do with how much detail the camera is able to capture across the whole frame.
If the camera is mounted to hold it still, and there's not a lot of movement in the scene to begin with, then it has a lot of capability available to record the moving parts clearly.
If the whole scene is moving fast, and the camera is moving as well and adding to this movement, then Pentax cameras tend to exhaust their lower bit rate allowance much more quickly than other brands, who now nearly all offer a much higher bit rate than Pentax do.


If the conditions are right though, then yes, Pentax is still capable of a nice image for sure. I think some are frustrated at the moment though, because Pentax could relatively easily be so much better than they are now.
Other brands, even those who outright proclaimed that they are stills focussed like Olympus and Fuji, have leapt significantly ahead recently, and Pentax still hasn't.
Things like getting the sensor stabilisation and focus peaking to keep working during video, and generally upping the bit rate captured, and providing a clean hdmi output etc would all be hugely rewarding steps for them to take.

I'm for a higher res than you finally want to export at though, be that 2.7k or 4k, because it gives you the ability to frame your shots precisely after the fact (room to crop without loss of detail) and to stabilise footage as well.
I'd prefer Pentax got those basics above sorted first though, as I'm not that interested in a higher resolution version of the same blocky mess during faster movement etc.
Pentax haven't significantly address the video offering in roughly 5 years now, so frankly they're well overdue now.

[surfar]

So do you think they will bypass 4k and jump to top of the pack with 8K?ha ha ha.

[richandfleur]

So do you think they will bypass 4k and jump to top of the pack with 8K?ha ha ha.

If you're not going to improve the image, and just want to put out the marketing hype figures, then why stop there?


eg KP with a max ISO of 819200

[sqrrl]

...
Pentax haven't significantly address the video offering in roughly 5 years now, so frankly they're well overdue now.

Agreed, that's why I'm talking about the k50 and not the KP, I haven't even bothered to test the video on mine. I tend to use m4/3 cameras when I'm required to do video, either that or the canon 760d, which kicks the pants off anything from pentax for video.

800k is a waste of time, but I was surprised that the 64k'ish ISO range is usable - even if i'd only use if for focus confirmation.

I've kept a vague eye on the kiwi thread, I try to avoid looking at trademe, reduces the chances of me dying in a cameralanche.

[PiDicus Rex]

Ive found that declicked m42 lenses in manual exposure mode work just fine when on a tripod or otherwise stabilized.

- Declicking the K thru KA lenses is ridiculously easy. And easy as to reverse. With the exception of the amount of breathing in a focus rack, they and the M42 lenses make great cinema lenses.

More technical video work with movements etc I just switch to m43 cameras or action cams, even cell phone even if theres good light.

Don't be afraid of going handheld or shoulder rig, or gimbal stabilised with a Pentax - the Rolling Shutter Skew is a lot(!!) less pronounced then other DSLR's.

I think some are frustrated at the moment though, because Pentax could relatively easily be so much better than they are now.

Me,....


4K,... for those of us who can use it for production, I'd settle for it being 4K on the HDMI while not recording internally - this would let us record to external units in ProRes or DNxHD
I'm not convinced that 4K is really useful for the average camera buyer yet, but it's pretty much a sales-item prerequisite, now that action cameras and phones have pretty much all gone 4K.

Agreed, that's why I'm talking about the k50 and not the KP, I haven't even bothered to test the video on mine.

You have the KP?
Have you treid the Slimport HDMI? Is it Recordable??

[PiDicus Rex]

Ahhh,... see, for me, that still sound pretty simple.
But for me, rebuilding a cars manual gearbox is fun.

[richandfleur]

On this note, if you find your Ford or Mazda car doors don't lock/unlock automatically anymore, I found this kit incredibly cheap:
Door Lock Actuator Repair Kit Set For Ford Territory Falcon Laser AU BA BF Mazda | eBay


Coming back to Pentax video though, I genuinely feel Autofocus and Video are the two remaining areas that Pentax really needs to up it's game in.
I don't know how long they can go on ignoring this.

[sqrrl]

Don't be afraid of going handheld or shoulder rig, or gimbal stabilised with a Pentax ...

Yes, I have steadycams, hdmi monitors, follow focus rigs, ronins, sound gear and suchlike available at work, by the time I've bolted all that stuff together there's typically someone champing at the bit to drive it, which is good cos I don't want to carry all that sh!t around.

I've declicked a couple of cheaper m42 lenses because they are cheap and dont have levers, its not really the complexity of modifying m series lenses so much as the clicks are handy for other stuff like stills photography.

no idea on the slimport sorry, ive only ever used hdmi on camera for demonstrating stuff to students when hooked up to a projector.

[richandfleur]

Does raise the discussion of whether it's still required to adjust the exposure via aperture or floating ISO these days. As things get better sensor and codec wise, I'm not convinced the smooth aperture lens approach is as required as it once was, especially if it's going start impacting on the look of the shot, in terms of depth of field variations etc.

[PiDicus Rex]

I found, back when I was shooting video on a Canon XL-1, with the full manual lens, I could put the camera in Av, and if there was enough light, do a slow iris pull, for changing the depth of field.

The original K-01 firmware had the ISO unlocked in 'M', it took till 1.03 before it was locked down. As such, it would always ramp up and down, and that would lead to the footage being less then stellar as noise would creep in in dark areas, followed by colour blotches where the low data rate couldn't handle the sensor noise.

Once that was corrected, it became possible to do slow Iris Pulls, but you very quickly run in to the noise and colour blotching.

The raised data rate of the KP should correct that, at least for ISO 100 to 3200, perhaps not for the upper two ISO settings now available in video mode.

I'd fully expect Iris pulls with the ISO compensating, or zooms with the ISO compensating for lens loss, would be capable if we were able to record externally to a better CoDec.

Floating or Auto ISO can be useful, if there's not a loss of image quality in the CoDec.

[kadajawi]

Pentax and video... oh well. I think it might be too late for them. My company gave me a Panasonic GX80 for a month so I can review it, and I might actually keep it. Such a great little camera with wonderful glass. I'm hardly using my Pentax anymore, in most situations it's worse than the Panasonic. Only low light and shallow depth of field are two strong points... Panasonic really botched up long exposures. Not sure I'll ever buy another Pentax. The video quality is on a different level, obviously, but I also like the Pana for stills.

[richandfleur]

Pentax have obviously banked on their stills capabilities, but the reality is others have improved significantly in this area now.

Even the traditional larger sensor is better argument is falling away now.

Whilst not 100% optimum, you no longer have to take a massive hit on one mode or the other by having a device that can do both really well. Barring the pixel peeping spec warriors, for most users a camera can now perform both roles adequately and sufficiently.

Point? I don't think one can ignore a whole potential market segment, by not upping their video to be even slightly competitive.

[Steve.Ledger]

Pentax and video... oh well. I think it might be too late for them.

The opportunity they appeared to be taking in 2009 was never followed up on. They've since lost a massive potential market.
C'est la vie.

I won't say I'd never buy another Pentax, but it's unlikely.

[kadajawi]

Pentax have obviously banked on their stills capabilities, but the reality is others have improved significantly in this area now.

Even the traditional larger sensor is better argument is falling away now.

Whilst not 100% optimum, you no longer have to take a massive hit on one mode or the other by having a device that can do both really well. Barring the pixel peeping spec warriors, for most users a camera can now perform both roles adequately and sufficiently.

Point? I don't think one can ignore a whole potential market segment, by not upping their video to be even slightly competitive.

Actually for pixel peeping, the Panasonics aren't that bad either. The 12-32, a lens you'll spend less than $100 on when bought in a kit, is as sharp as hell. It runs circles around my DA 50 1.8, let alone the rest of my lenses. I can shoot the CHEAP 35-100 almost in the sun, without a lens hood, and it does well. It too, is really sharp. And it's smaller and lighter than the 50 mm prime. Low light isn't their strength, but it's not terrible either.

So it's daytime almost as good as Pentax, night time clearly not as good, but usable, ergonomics are worse (in parts because it can do so much!), but you'll get used to it, and video is a ton better. Plus you can always have it with you, because it takes up no space and weights significantly less. You can also get it into places where you'll get kicked out if you bring a DSLR. It does almost everything the big ones can, but in a much more manageable package. Why buy one of those, unless you've got some rather special needs?

Hopefully the lack-lustre interchangeable grip camera is a sign of them working hard on an actually interesting camera.

[PiDicus Rex]

My company gave me a Panasonic GX80 for a month so I can review it, and I might actually keep it. Such a great little camera with wonderful glass.

I'd be interested in knowing how it goes - I was chasing a VG900, but missed it, and am looking at a G85 instead.

Even the traditional larger sensor is better argument is falling away now.

It was never 'better' or 'worse',... at least not to me. It's always been, 'what matches the look I want to achieve?'
In most cases, if you want to match the characteristics of Cinema film, you shoot APSc (s35).