[Steve.Ledger]

And as mentioned elsewhere, the mechanical stabilization is active in live view, it's just when recording starts it switches to MovieSR. Pure and simple, it was Pentax listening to press and flaky youtube reviews about IBIS noises picked up by the internal mic. Ricoh mentioned this 'decision' in at least two interviews. It was a 'choice' they made based largely on bad data.
They may chose not to release a firmware patch to re enable it for models older than the K-1, but rather than cost being a factor they just want to sell more K-1 and KPs.

[richandfleur]

If Pentax won't do this, it surely becomes a strong contender for the hacking crowd, to study the firmwares and look for where this option has been inserted on say the KP/K1.


Yes it would take time/money to role back to older money, but man what good will that would buy with the loyal customers.

[SeaRefractor]

Yes it would take time/money to role back to older money, but man what good will that would buy with the loyal customers.

This is the new paradigm that Fujifilm customers are raving about. Pentax should follow form with software updates to stay competitive with Fujifilm. Embrace "Kaizen" Fujifilm's Frequent Firmware Updates and the Philosophy of Kaizen

Updating for more than just lens compatibility brings good will that will help ensure loyal customers more likely to purchase the next generation of product rather than moving to a competitor because of the good will. The K-1 brining features like Night mode from the K-70 was a good start, let's hope Ricoh continues the trend.

[ZombieArmy]

If mechanical stabilization was made available for older models then I guarantee the used market prices for the k-01 would go up a bit.

[PiDicus Rex]

If mechanical stabilization was made available for older models then I guarantee the used market prices for the k-01 would go up a bit.

Maaaaate, if the K-01 has Sensor Shift and HDMI output, you would not be able to find them on shelves anywhere.
It's what it should have had at launch, and would have made it out-sell a significant portion of other brands 'video capable' models.

But the market moves on, and current models need focus peaking, audio display, and soon, audio level control during recording, for those people pluging in things like the Rode Video-mic.

[richandfleur]

It's funny really, as a clean hdmi out is a relatively easy thing to do, and then you don't outright exclude a bunch of potential users.

There's mass appeal for a unit that does it all, hence the rise in onboard 4k capture etc
When the A7s (?) came out it didn't offer on camera 4k for example. In later versions they did, but it was a valid first effort approach to offer 4k out via hdmi only.
Likewise with mic in so you record audio and video on camera, and yeah for that you really want audio level visualisation.
Times have changed, and Pentax still have a lot of basic ground work to sort to near 2015 level specs.


Offer sensor shift via firmware on any of my present cameras and I'll be a real happy chappy.
Offer it on any future cameras and you've just gained a customer back again.

[PiDicus Rex]

A7s feature set was developed while Sony and Atomos were co-operating on the HDMI Record Trigger Protocol.
The 4K output was enabled to let owners of the Shogun record in 4K, as at the time, the Sony hardware couldn't do the math to compress 4K to their mpeg4 based CoDec and export that through the SD Controller.

The A7s2 has a newer processor, and so is able to record 4K internally as well.

I have a hard time believing that the current generation of hardware based HDMI encoders available to camera manufacturers cannot output 4K, so long as the cameras FPGU can get that data from the sensor to the HDMI encoder.

Ditto with the earlier generation getting decent HDMI output at HD resolutions - if they can do 1080p30 before you hit record on the camera, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to record externally, the hold up on models that don't switch to playback only (aka, everything Except the K-01), is that when you have the camera set to record in 24 or 25 frames per second, it outputs 1080p30, with overlays.

I wouldn't give a damn if I lost being able to record internally at the same time, if I was able to get 1080p24 and 1080p25 out of the camera's HDMI and in to my Shogun recorder.

What my test of a K-1 last weekend showed, was that the HDMI is getting the feed from the Liveview function via the LCD, which is why the overlays persisted when switched off in the menus. This is what needs to be changed - the HDMI must get a direct feed from the Sensor & FPGU, not the same feed that goes to the LCD.

Offer sensor shift via firmware on any of my present cameras and I'll be a real happy chappy. Offer it on any future cameras and you've just gained a customer back again.

Same here.

[filmamigo]

Would you accept a SR system that causes the sensor to overheat after <10min of use? Until Ricoh figures out how to solve that problem, the mechanical SR during video is not coming back.

I never had this problem on my K5, or on my K-01. I would often shoot to the max length of recording.

---------- Post added 02-28-17 at 09:48 AM ----------

THANK YOU PENTAX!

Also - big thanks to Adam for asking the question.

I'm so happy they have listened to their customers. As was said well by others -- we don't need Pentax to invest heavily and make radical changes. Simply make choices that respect your users. Allowing us to turn mechanical SR is exactly one of these issues.

Next - clean HDMI :-) Dare to dream.

5. Would it be possible to bring back mechanical stabilization in video?
So far the sensor shift is disabled in movie mode in order not to record mechanical noise. In response to our users' requests, we are planning to supply a firmware update that enables mechanical SR (shake reduction) while recording video for the K-1 and KP.

[kadajawi]

Can't really agree with these. First, the Pentax MJPEG in the K-5 implementation royally sucked. It was non-standard, had terrible compatibility with most software, and had terrible color reproduction and artifacting problems. There was never any high end appeal, especially considering the far superior results the 5dmkII was getting 2 years before the K-5 was even released. Furthermore, given the storage limitations at the time (2gig max file size), it produced files that were waaaay too big. Saying they should have just gone to Prores @500mbps is pretty naive, considering the Prime processing engines used in every one of the Pentax bodies have been waaaay too underpowered to handle such a bitrate without choking. Could they have gone with a more powerful processor? Sure, but that would move them out of their position as an excellent, affordable stills camera, which has worked out quite well for them.

Furthermore, while the SR was a step backwards, saying it was the best in the business for video is absolutely ludicrous. The IBIS system on the Sony A55, which was released in the same month, was far superior, as were OS lenses on Canon or the Panny GH series.

The SONY A55 image stabilisation - YouTube

And let's face it, Ricoh has no interest in being a video camera company and have gone on the record stating as much. They will never "dominate the market." Personally, I don't care too much, as I have bought into the Pentax system for stills and can use my GH2 for video or buy a G7 if I want 4k. In the meantime, I'll happily continue to use the most feature-packed FF stills camera on the market and enjoy the fact that it cost me under 2 grand.

Are you sure the A55 has mechanical video stabilization? I've had the a57 for a short while, and there stabilization was electronic only. A significantly better implementation than what Pentax used, but it was clearly software only. In your sample it's hard to tell, because when it is bright, software stabilization can work well.

So it may not be the sensor overheating because of moving the sensor, but because the camera has to read out more of the sensor, which is what really causes heat. Also the processor has to work harder. SR would actually be heating up the camera less. It matches my experiences anyway: I've recorded for something like 1 1/2 hours with no interruption but how long it takes to push the shutter again, in a hot venue. Did the camera show me a warning eventually? Yes. Did it shut off? Nope. Same venue, mirrorless Sony (NEX-5 I think) did shut off. And a GoPro got so hot it was a bit painful to touch.

@THoog: The thing is to implement video SR in Pentax cameras isn't hard, because it already exists. Switch your camera to live view in stills mode, and you'll get stabilized video. It absolutely works in the K-3, not sure which other cameras I have tried. I believe the K-1 too.

I think the problem with enabling it on older cameras is that any change to the firmware may cause unexpected bugs in the weirdest places. So they need to do a lot of testing to make sure owners won't brick their camera. For a new camera that is getting updates anyway (bug fixes, new features, ...) that is no big deal, they are going to do lots of testing anyway. But old cameras are a different matter. So implementing the new feature would be relatively trivial, but there's a ton of stuff attached to it. While it sucks for owners, I can fully understand it.

Also, the higher-end the camera, the more... erm, expected are regular firmware updates and continuous improvements to the camera. And the K-1 has a long shelf life as mentioned by Pentax, something that is also rather common for higher end models (Canon replaces their 3 and 4 digit cameras like underwear, while the single digit ones stay around for many years). Since the K-1 is going to stay for many more years, and was basically just released, it makes sense to update it.

I wonder if Pentax is still going to crop the sensor when shooting video with mechanical SR, and if they are going to offer a third mode that combines mechanical and software stabilization. Mechanical is great at sorting out quick movements that can lead to motion blur in random directions or wobbly video, while software stabilization works great for slower shake/movement. Basically the software SR could work to move the sensor back to the center, so that the mechanism doesn't tilt.

@richandfleur: Clean HDMI may or may not be easy to do. It all depends on the processor. The processor processes the sensor input, does it's noise reduction, white balancing etc., and then feeds it to the encoder section of the camera. There needs to be a full res connection from there to the HDMI port. The question is how flexible is the processor? The screen is getting a live feed, but at lower resolution and with overlays. That's of no use for clean HDMI. I am speculating at this point, but what I am saying is there can be issues. We aren't talking about a computer or smartphone processor that is very flexible. These are specialized processors for one task, and enabling clean HDMI can mean having to redesign that processor. Now Nikon cameras show that it is possible based on a Milbeaut processor, but Nikon AFAIK is using specialized versions just meant for Nikon, based on what Nikon is asking the manufacturer to do.

I'd also like to say thank you Pentax. As of now I don't need to replace my Pentax, been shooting less anyway as I've changed jobs and am now mostly writing and doing some Photoshop. But the K-3 successor could be my next camera. Thank god I don't HAVE TO change systems.

[richandfleur]

I think the problem with enabling it on older cameras is that any change to the firmware may cause unexpected bugs in the weirdest places. So they need to do a lot of testing to make sure owners won't brick their camera. For a new camera that is getting updates anyway (bug fixes, new features, ...) that is no big deal, they are going to do lots of testing anyway. But old cameras are a different matter. So implementing the new feature would be relatively trivial, but there's a ton of stuff attached to it. While it sucks for owners, I can fully understand it.

Agreed.

I wonder if Pentax is still going to crop the sensor when shooting video with mechanical SR, and if they are going to offer a third mode that combines mechanical and software stabilization.

I doubt they'll spend a lot of time on this.
Hope to be proven wrong, but I'd expect either mechanical stabilisation is on permanently, or there's a menu option to enable it.
The cropping in I expect to remain, even though it's not needed, and not needed now even when the Movie SR is turned off, but still it remains.

Just waiting now to see what we get. Sounds positive, but there are many video aspects still to be addressed.

[kadajawi]

Just waiting now to see what we get. Sounds positive, but there are many video aspects still to be addressed.

I agree. But I've always said (I think...) what I want to see from Pentax is progress, it is them listening to us and at least trying. I want them to move in the right direction. That's what I need to not give up the brand and switch elsewhere. And they have done just that. Now I have more confidence and may buy a lens or two, whereas before I didn't want to buy anything with a Pentax logo for fear of getting stuck.

[richandfleur]

I agree. But I've always said (I think...) what I want to see from Pentax is progress, it is them listening to us and at least trying. I want them to move in the right direction. That's what I need to not give up the brand and switch elsewhere. And they have done just that. Now I have more confidence and may buy a lens or two, whereas before I didn't want to buy anything with a Pentax logo for fear of getting stuck.

I've seen progress in one out of around 5 aspects towards video, and in some respects it looks to be the easiest for them to address.


If this is a sign of things to come, then all good.


If they think it's all sorted now, and there's no need to improve anything else, then that's less than all good.


Will need to wait and see what eventuates.

[Tigs]

Camera companies need to realise that if they want to keep users happy they need to keep improving software in new and old models. The greed that leads companies to sell cameras as a short life products is not unoticed.

One consideration is development cost. There are obviously limited resources for firmware updates, so the company has to prioritize those that are cost-effective. Common hardware / firmware helps in this respect.

For example, since the K-3 II uses an older version of the UI, it might take much more development/testing time for it to get the night vision feature than the K-1, which has the same generation UI as the K-70 that originally got this feature.

The same likely goes for SR II and the video SR, purely from a programming standpoint for the hardware driver. Obviously the original SR mechanism could also support video SR as we saw in the K-5, but implementing it in the K-3 and other recent bodies could be costly.

On top of that there are the obvious marketing/business reasons. It doesn't make sense to enhance features in a product for free when that product has been superseded in the lineup (or will be soon), because it could discourage future sales. On the other hand, it does make sense to continue supporting newly-launched lenses and accessories even in older models (i.e. how the K-r got 1.4x TC support, or the K-3 and K-50 got KAF4 support).

That said, it's always nice when the company goes out of their way to keep customers happy. They didn't have to be so generous with K-1 firmware updates, but they clearly value their loyal fans and want to go the extra mile. Perhaps other companies have set a better example in this respect, but it's never too late to start. Who wants to bet that the K-1 will be the first camera since the *ist series to get a firmware version 2.x?

[Steve.Ledger]

Agreed. If they write firmware updates for older bodies folks could keep the previous bodies thus are more likely to keep buying Pentax lenses for them. If folks have to buy the latest body to get the features they want/need, then for that kind of money you can just as well buy another brand which already has a history of the features people have been waiting for from Pentax. I did, and have ended up not only with [I think] a better camera but the lenses I got are superior (again, imho).
It was regrettable having to sell my Pentax kit, but I don't regret having done it. One can wait in hope only so long.

[richandfleur]

Also, new changes can be deployed so that users have the option to enable or not.


Clean hdmi out, mechanical stabilisaiton, focus peaking on during video capture, high quality video mode with larger file sizes etc. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

eg, pic of the movie menu on the new Fuji MF camera. Nice easy clean hdmi option example right there: