[PiDicus Rex]

Just a confirmation,...

I got to test a K-1 with my Atomos Shogun via the HDMI connection.

Besides still doing the wrong frame size and frame rate output from the HDMI port, also ran in to an issue where, even with all the on-screen overlays switched Off in the menus, the artificial horizon and focus marker for face recognition were still present on the HDMI output.

So, if it's true that the KP and K-1 are getting firmware to re-enable Sensor Shift in video (YAY!), there is still work to be done before the K-1 reaches it's full potential for HD cinematography.



My 'best guess' is that on all Pentaxes, the output from the sensor is routed to the LCD driver, and then to the HDMI port, so the HDMI output gets whatever is needed to drive the LCD, rather then a clean output.

That would also explain why the HDMI output is at a different frame rate to that the user has selected to record, such as outputting 30fps when the cameras recording 24.


Ideally ( And iff anyone from Pentax is reading this,...) the output to the HDMI should be routed directly from the sensor engine, at the user selected frame rate and frame size, and entirely separate to that which is being fed to the LCD.

That way, iff they really wanted to, and iff the HDMI hardware is capable of it, a K-1 could even output the whole sensor output as a larger frame size, say 4K, without doing any writing to the SD card.

- "the whole sensor" - 4:3 area with Anamorphic lens,... or crop to 16:9 area for 'UHD'

It's a lot of 'iff's', but, it could mean a firmware fix to catch the competition - Sony's A7s sold perfectly well without being able to record 4K internally while outputting 4K to the HDMI.

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Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 02-25-2017 at 03:00 AM.

[Tas]

there is still work to be done before the K-1 reaches it's full potential for HD cinematography.

You could try posting your suggestions in the 'Product Suggestions and Feedback' forum, the details are here: What to post in the feedback forum - PentaxForums.com

Tas

[PiDicus Rex]

as the limitation is in the sensor, which can't clear its buffer quickly enough to support real-time 4k video.

That answers the 'Iff'

You could try posting your suggestions in the 'Product Suggestions and Feedback' forum,

Yup, If I wanted to get trolled by the 'Ooo, err, no video on a Stills camera' crowd, I'd post there. This is just a confirmation for anyone looking to film on the K-1.

But Pentax should know by know that the HDMI is wasted, especially as they're having to respond to those questions in current interviews

[raff89]

Just a confirmation,...

I got to test a K-1 with my Atomos Shogun via the HDMI connection.

Besides still doing the wrong frame size and frame rate output from the HDMI port, also ran in to an issue where, even with all the on-screen overlays switched Off in the menus, the artificial horizon and focus marker for face recognition were still present on the HDMI output.

So, if it's true that the KP and K-1 are getting firmware to re-enable Sensor Shift in video (YAY!), there is still work to be done before the K-1 reaches it's full potential for HD cinematography.

[...]

It's a lot of 'iff's', but, it could mean a firmware fix to catch the competition - Sony's A7s sold perfectly well without being able to record 4K internally while outputting 4K to the HDMI.

Hi, all, I am bumping this thread because I am strongly considering upgrading to K-1 as my main camera bu I have a small video series in my plans in the near future. Since I am not really interested in 4k, the sensor limitation is not a problem for me but I would like to be able to record 1080p@60fps. The question is if K-1 will let me do that, not "in body", for sure, but maybe with external recorder like Atomos Shogun mentioned above ?

@PiDicus Rex - did you manage to get something usable out of your setup ? or the overlays proved to be deal breakers?

Regards.

[PiDicus Rex]

@PiDicus Rex - did you manage to get something usable out of your setup ? or the overlays proved to be deal breakers?

On the K-1, we couldn't get rid of the overlays at all.
It was only a quick test on a Photowalk, but cycling through all the options to get rid of the overlays seemed to remove them from the LCD, but not the HDMI.
It also appeared that the same thing that happens with the K-3, happens with the K-1, where the HDMI output changes frame rate and resolution, when you press record, dropping to 720p60.

As things stand, if you want to shoot at 24, 25 and 30 fps at 1080p, with an External Recorder, you're not using a Pentax.

This makes me sad, as I've seen the potential that's there, especially in the colour accuracy.

The big unknown however, is the KP's Slimport HDMI - I've been trying to find someone with one to test with, to see if the camera outputs a recordable signal, but as yet have found no volunteers interested in Melbourne, Australia.

On phones, the slimport is able to output 1080p and 4K at varied frame rates. Even if the KP is limited to 'only' 1080p, but at 24, 25 and 30 fps settings, it's low-light performance and it's (APSc) s35 sized sensor, will make it VERY appealing to Indie and budget film makers.

Iff it can output 4K,.... It'll be a game-changer.
Low Light, s35, cinematic frame rates, to a ProRes or DNxHD enabled recorder like the Shogun, using the Muted profile for Flat, grade-able imagery.

---------- Post added 10-06-17 at 07:50 PM ----------

You could try posting your suggestions in the 'Product Suggestions and Feedback' forum, the details are here: What to post in the feedback forum - PentaxForums.com

For the heck of it, just done that, lets see how much Anti-Video whining it attracts.

[raff89]

The K-1 can do 1080/60i but not 60p in body. So depends what you mean by 60fps, I suppose.

I mean 60 full frames (1080p) I need full frames because what I am aiming for is 30 fps for final playback with ability to slow down some parts of the video, and 60 interlaced frames will not allow me to do that.

For the heck of it, just done that, lets see how much Anti-Video whining it attracts.

After some more research on the forum and outside of it I decided to post this request too . Lets hope that two people nagging for this feature will be enough for Ricoh/Pentax to notice.

[TomGarn]

I decided to post this request too . Lets hope that two people nagging for this feature will be enough for Ricoh/Pentax to notice.

Count me in. We are three now.

[sqrrl]

...

The big unknown however, is the KP's Slimport HDMI - I've been trying to find someone with one to test with, to see if the camera outputs a recordable signal, but as yet have found no volunteers interested in Melbourne, Australia.

On phones, the slimport is able to output 1080p and 4K at varied frame rates. Even if the KP is limited to 'only' 1080p, but at 24, 25 and 30 fps settings, it's low-light performance and it's (APSc) s35 sized sensor, will make it VERY appealing to Indie and budget film makers.

...

I've tested the slimport with a screen & still had the overlays there, the resolution didn't seem anything like 1080p. I haven't tested it with a dvr, but I can't see how much of a difference that would make.

It's useful for focus and framing confirmation when working solo in front of the camera, but that's about it really.

[PiDicus Rex]

Ballllzzzzz,...

It got the Slimport Certification, so it has to be minimum 1080p out - were you able to tell if it was at 24, 25 or 30 fps?
Where did you find the Slimport adaptor?

What about any options to switch off the overlays? I tested a K-1 recently, and with all the overlays set to off, some were still there on the output.

As for DVR - I have the Shogun, and it displays info about the incoming source, but some of the DVR's, and yes, including the Shogun, some of them are really fussy about having everything input to the correct standards - the HDMI on the 645D gave a small image in the top left corner of the screen with a nasty colour streak across to the righthand edge.

[sqrrl]

What I saw was mirroring the rear screen, so maybe it is 1080p (that's what I had it set to) but the rear screen isn't. Beyond that I was using a computer monitor so no further feedback.

The slimport was generic, so that could be a bottleneck.

I'll have another play with it and my game cap - that's only 720p, but recording it'll probably give me a better idea of what I'm looking at than a screen does.

I suspect it's for mirroring the rear screen rather than external video capture - we use that feature quite often when teaching photography & videography - no use to a videographer who isn't teaching though.

[PiDicus Rex]

Mirroring the LCD,... so no improvement over the Analog output.

[sqrrl]

I don't think so, but that said, I still haven't tested it with an hdmi cap - I'm waiting on a new game capture to be delivered - the roxio one I had popped it's clogs when I tried to hotplug it (trying to save 2 minutes by just plugging in a hot cable)

[PiDicus Rex]

Ouchie,...

I got an Atomos Shogun here, if you ever come this side of the Tasman on holidays

[sqrrl]

I don't miss the roxio - it kept dropping signal - It's not useful having your screen switch off when you are gaming.

I did a final test with the Elgato hd60s and couldn't get rid of the levels thingee, it does record at 1080 - I think it's 30p - I suspect that even ignoring the level indicators, you'd get better results on the sd card as opposed to the slimport. The slimport's basically a dead end for external capture.

It's useful to send to a 7" screen when filming, but for recording it's only useful if you want to film a "how to use a camera" type video.

[dotp]

I was able to remove all the overlays and produce a clean HDMI from my K-1. Can't speak to the frame-rate question or the resolution yet. Still working on that.