[richandfleur]

Just remember a LUT is a starting point, often developed for other cameras, and is just part of of the overall grading process.

[grispie]

My question is, at this point, what is the BEST setting for High/Low keys in order to loss the less info is possible.

there is no such thing as a best setting imo. everything depends on the situation..
it is trial & error. Just watch the histogram.

[andher76]

there is no such thing as a best setting imo. everything depends on the situation..
it is trial & error. Just watch the histogram.

Yes...
My question in fact is, how can I set H/L keys in order to get the most details is possible in both dark and light areas. Should I move the low keys cursos until I get the maximum on the left of the histogram and move the High to get the same on the right (before burning of course)?
And what about the risk to loss some details? I ask this because it seems, looking i.e. at Sony S-logs (or everything coming out from an Arri) that the flatest the image in H/L keys the best it is...

[kadajawi]

Remember not to go nuts, because you're still using a highly compressed 8 bit file, so if you need to stretch it a lot in post you'll run into issues. With a Pentax maybe it's better to get it right in camera, at least for exposure. Sharpness down (it also helps the encoder to the best it can with the low bitrates, as it doesn't have to encode any fake details which waste a ton of data). Also, ETTR.

[PiDicus Rex]

In any case, here a screenschot of the footage with the muted profile that I made with the Pentax K3. What do you think, how can I improve it talking about high/low keys and loss of details?

That looks like a pretty good starting point - some of the trees to the left side look overexposed, given there's not a large percentage of subject matter that's completely shadowed in to the blacks, I probably would have set the camera to expose a little darker overall.
I'd lay odds on, when you get that footage in to your NLE, there'll still be detail in those overexposed areas.
It might not be accesable if you're using Adobe software, in Edius or Resolve, you definitely be able to pull the highlights back a bit.

My question is, at this point, what is the BEST setting for High/Low keys in order to loss the less info is possible.

There is no 'best'.
What the High/Low key does, is stretch the image, to either give more detail in shadows at the expense of the highlights, or more detail in the highlights, at the expense of the shadows.
It's similar to the "Knee" setting in an ENG News or Studio camera.
When adjusting it, where it looks right to your eye, and matches the way you want the footage to look, is where it is 'right'

Just like in Stills, everything about your image is subjective, and once you have the technical aspects sorted, everything else is dependent on what you like.

---------- Post added 28-06-17 at 06:38 AM ----------

Just remember a LUT is a starting point, often developed for other cameras, and is just part of of the overall grading process.

Spot On!

---------- Post added 28-06-17 at 06:42 AM ----------

My question in fact is, how can I set H/L keys in order to get the most details is possible in both dark and light areas. Should I move the low keys cursos until I get the maximum on the left of the histogram and move the High to get the same on the right (before burning of course)? And what about the risk to loss some details? I ask this because it seems, looking i.e. at Sony S-logs (or everything coming out from an Arri) that the flatest the image in H/L keys the best it is...

See comment earlier in this reply, but to reiterate, High/Low Key stretches one way or the other, it won't improve both Shadows and Highlights, you either get more range in shadows and less in highlight, or, you get more range in highlights and less in shadows.

Adjust it when looking at a scene to preserve detail in that area that is most important to the scene.

An example of how I use it,.. is that I will first set my exposure, say, I'm outdoors, the sun is bright, and I set the exposure so part of my background is not overexposed, but that means my foreground is in the shadows, I can then shift the high/low key to stretch out the shadows in to the mids, and squeeze some of the highlight closer together.

It's also one of the last final tweaks, to get that last little bit of image character right, after doing things like setting up shades and reflectors.

[andher76]

That looks like a pretty good starting point - some of the trees to the left side look overexposed, given there's not a large percentage of subject matter that's completely shadowed in to the blacks, I probably would have set the camera to expose a little darker overall.
I'd lay odds on, when you get that footage in to your NLE, there'll still be detail in those overexposed areas.
It might not be accesable if you're using Adobe software, in Edius or Resolve, you definitely be able to pull the highlights back a bit.


There is no 'best'.
What the High/Low key does, is stretch the image, to either give more detail in shadows at the expense of the highlights, or more detail in the highlights, at the expense of the shadows.
It's similar to the "Knee" setting in an ENG News or Studio camera.
When adjusting it, where it looks right to your eye, and matches the way you want the footage to look, is where it is 'right'

Just like in Stills, everything about your image is subjective, and once you have the technical aspects sorted, everything else is dependent on what you like.

---------- Post added 28-06-17 at 06:38 AM ----------


Spot On!

---------- Post added 28-06-17 at 06:42 AM ----------


See comment earlier in this reply, but to reiterate, High/Low Key stretches one way or the other, it won't improve both Shadows and Highlights, you either get more range in shadows and less in highlight, or, you get more range in highlights and less in shadows.

Adjust it when looking at a scene to preserve detail in that area that is most important to the scene.

An example of how I use it,.. is that I will first set my exposure, say, I'm outdoors, the sun is bright, and I set the exposure so part of my background is not overexposed, but that means my foreground is in the shadows, I can then shift the high/low key to stretch out the shadows in to the mids, and squeeze some of the highlight closer together.

It's also one of the last final tweaks, to get that last little bit of image character right, after doing things like setting up shades and reflectors.

Got it. Thank you for all the answers.
I'll will try and maybe repost my impressions!

[richandfleur]

Just like in Stills,

This is the message I repeat a lot re video on a DSLR. The two concepts are extremely similar, in terms of exposure, composition, white balance, depth of field, field of view creative decisions.
Heck I even think mirrorless and DSLRs have more in common than they do differently. I'm very all encompassing, share the love, use the tools we have, share the knowledge, stop the purist divisions etc.
For some this approach is difficult to embrace, as it often knocks the core of ones identity and brand loyalty etc. Yes I shoot video for sure, and I use Pentax, and I want Pentax to improve the obvious small bits they're missing.
The image is so damn nice, why wouldn't you want to use it for video?


Anyhow, rant over. Coming back to the points, the major differences with video from stills are:


Motion Blur is ok. In fact it's desirable.

The Shutter Speed is usually fixed (not a hard and fast rule, but relates to how we interpret motion as above), and this leads to


Exposure is then reduced to two variables instead of the usual 3 (being only aperture and ISO sensitivity (and may an ND filter if required))


And finally, you don't have the option for anything like RAW stills in Pentaxland video, so getting everything (especially exposure) Right in Camera is super important.



Beyond that, you're into creative land, and it's very very similar to stills now, in terms of all those creative points above like composition, subject matter, location, lighting etc etc...
Go forth and create

[PiDicus Rex]

In the same vein as Richard's comment above,.. but slightly different...

The way I work,..
I use the shutter speed to control the motion blur (or lack thereof) that I want.
I use the Iris and Focus to control the Depth of Field to match the content - where I want to draw the viewers attention to.
I use the ISO, Filters, and the Lighting, to control how bright I want the images to be, within reasonable limits.
I use the lens view angle to exclude content I don't want, and concentrate on content I want to use.

And, there are times when I stick to one lens and change the shot with my feet, rather then changing the view angle, so the viewer isn't adjusting to the lens changing their perspective, until you want to change their perspective.
This last one, is similar to why Miller used 'Center Framing' for all the action in the most recent Mad Max film,.... and why Micheal Bay disorients viewers in action sequences.