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05-19-2017, 02:53 AM   #1
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Flat profile for video shooting.

Hello,
I will shoot some video next week with a K3. Very confortable to use for the fast and logical settings but...
Any suggestions on how to correctly set the flat color profile? Normally it's Contrast to minimum, Sharpness to minimun and Saturation 2 steps left. On the K3 there are also Highlights and Shadows and other fine tunings to set. Any suggestion and experiences from video users?

Thanks!

05-19-2017, 04:11 AM - 1 Like   #2
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choose 'muted' profile & the other stuff you mentioned..

---------- Post added 05-19-17 at 01:29 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
choose 'muted' profile & the other stuff you mentioned..
ps: what i also do sometimes, when i know what colortint i want for the finished video, i'll tweak it a bit in the WB menu. There is a 'wheel' that lets you adjust the color tone in camera..
05-19-2017, 05:21 AM   #3
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I think the jpeg mode affects the video. So choose Natural. Something like Bright or Film reversal affects saturation and contrasts. I don't know if other jpeg choices, like shadow correction, highlight correction, CA correction affect video on the new cameras. You can run a couple tests and compare

All I know about video is to turn off SR, set shutter speed to 1/(2*fps) and then try to keep steady hands.
05-19-2017, 06:01 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
choose 'muted' profile & the other stuff you mentioned..

---------- Post added 05-19-17 at 01:29 PM ----------


ps: what i also do sometimes, when i know what colortint i want for the finished video, i'll tweak it a bit in the WB menu. There is a 'wheel' that lets you adjust the color tone in camera..
Thank you. My questions was actually especially for the "mid settings" like highlights and shadows, since I read somewhere that there is the risk to lose some info reducing that parameters wrong way.
About the colour it is a good suggestion. In this case I will use a LUT in post, so better flat colors ;-)

---------- Post added 05-19-17 at 06:16 AM ----------

QuoteQuote:

All I know about video is to turn off SR, set shutter speed to 1/(2*fps) and then try to keep steady hands.
Yes, I know Pentax SR in video mode is electronic and horrible like the video AF function. In any case I use tripods, fluid heads, rigs and follow focus

05-19-2017, 06:55 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by andher76 Quote
like highlights and shadows
I believe there is a setting for highlight correction/preservation in photo mode. ĘPretty sure it will be applied to the video recording.
I think Pidicus has some tricks up his sleeve to preserve highlights.. Myself, i'm pretty happy with the dynamic range out of the box. Just watch the histogram i guess.

QuoteOriginally posted by andher76 Quote
In any case I use tripods, fluid heads, rigs and follow focus
Makes me curious about what you plan to record ;-)
05-21-2017, 06:31 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
Myself, i'm pretty happy with the dynamic range out of the box. Just watch the histogram i guess.


Yeah your base exposure is still king here. Set that to protect the content of importance first and foremost.


There's nothing close to RAW video coming from a Pentax, so it's prebaked like a JPEG, and is therefore important to get it right in camera, as much as possible.
06-01-2017, 03:56 AM - 1 Like   #7
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Yes, the image profiles used for the Jpegs are directly applicable to the video recorded.

QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
I think Pidicus has some tricks up his sleeve to preserve highlights..

'Muted' profile, drop the contrast & saturation down to taste. I only ever turn them down one or two steps, any more then that and you start to loose too much detail.
Same goes for Sharpness - small steps are better then cranking it all the way down.
Test and set to personal preference.

The High/Low Key function is where you can save or destroy image quality.
It can lift shadows, but does so at the expense of the highlights, or it can save highlights, at the expense of shadows.
It works like the Knee setting in the ENG cameras, creating a boomerang shaped curve in the gamma response, with the adjustment shifting where the curve is centered.

On every other body except the KP, stay away from ISO 1600, and don't bother with ISO 3200 - the data rate is so low that noise in the images causes blotches in the colour.
On the KP, from the sample vision online, it looks good for use to ISO 6400.

The HDMI is pretty much useless due to frame rates and frame size issues, but if you do hook it or the AV up, you'll see why it's annoying that we can't record it, as the sensor and image processor does a pretty good job of things, right up until the CoDec over compresses the footage.

External Recording, and Sensor Shift, would completely transform the Pentax cameras from 'video capable' to 'best at any price comparison'.

The rest, is what you do in front of the lens.
A good Matte Box is a must - shading the front element of the lens helps control any scattered light.
Polarised and Neutral Density filters control the hard light from reflections.
Grad's keep the sky from being blown out when filming outdoors.
Fleckies, Bounces, and Shades control and shape the available light, while umbrellas and soft boxes provide control over any lights you add to a scene.


This shot was done with K-01 in Muted profile, daylight coming in from the window behind the actress, Iris opened to keep her in focus and soften the background, with the ISO and an ND filter used to drop the background down to where we wanted it exposed.
Then an 800watt Tungsten used off to the left of the camera with Daylight gel to match the colour temp of the daylight coming in from outside, and both a scrim on the light and a Diffuser out just under a meter from the light, to scatter and soften the output, with the barn-doors and the distance from the light to the actor determining the amount of light reaching her.
And finally a second redhead (800watt Tungsten) with daylight gel, doubled scrim, nearly closed barn-doors, set to imitate the light from the windows, but at sufficient angle to leave the rim on her shoulder and hair, just bright enough to separate her from the background.



IIRC, I shifted the High/Low Key to lift the shadows one point, at the risk of the background highlights, which were already in the Bokeh, so not filled with fine detail anyway.

In post, I make sure all projects are 10-bit, even though the footage is 8-bit, as 10-bit projects leave more room for colour grading without causing banding in flat areas where a light gradient occurs, such as a light splashed across a flat wall.
I used the colour correction tools to set the colour saturation to taste, and add contrast back in to the Muted profile.

The point of using Muted or a flat profile, is that you don't loose information by going outside of the IRE limits for video signal processing.
Canon, Nikon, etc, all clip the vision to IRE limits.
Pentax does not.
That means you have more detail, right up until it reaches the h264 CoDec, where the low data rate Pentax uses causes colour blotching around noise peaks and macro blocking where the detail level exceeds the data rate.

By keeping the backgrounds soft and using the muted setting, the CoDec uses more of the available data in the fine detailed areas of the actor, not the large areas of background.


So, basically, I retain detail in the area I want, by throwing it away in the areas that aren't important to telling the story of a film.


One other thing about fine detail.
The K-01 has close to 13 stops dynamic range.
The K-3, K-3ii, and K-1 have closer to 15 stops dynamic range.
The greater the dynamic range, the more detail you start with, before the colour profiles and CoDec gets applied.
For comparison, the Canon 5D3 starts with 11 stops, and looses 2 in the clipping to IRE limits.
So all Pentax's recent bodies should be able to exceed the amount of detail and contrast of the camera the DSLR shooters rave about.

At HD resolution,... The K-01 should out perform the BMD Cine Camera if HDMI recording was available (excluding the BMD's Raw recording).
At HD resolution, the K-3, K-3ii and K-1 should be the equal of anything by Nikon, Panasonic, Sony, and even Red, if the Pentax bodies could be recorded externally to ProRes files.

---------- Post added 01-06-17 at 09:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by andher76 Quote
In any case I use tripods, fluid heads, rigs and follow focus
QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
Makes me curious about what you plan to record ;-)
he he he,.... that's just a normal video setup Grispie

Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 06-01-2017 at 04:22 AM.
06-23-2017, 02:31 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote

The High/Low Key function is where you can save or destroy image quality.
It can lift shadows, but does so at the expense of the highlights, or it can save highlights, at the expense of shadows.
It works like the Knee setting in the ENG cameras, creating a boomerang shaped curve in the gamma response, with the adjustment shifting where the curve is centered.
Thank you for all your suggestions!
I managed to make the video and quite satisfied by the result but I really need that you explain me more about HIgh/Low KEy settings on Pentax K3, if you can!


Thanks!

06-23-2017, 02:40 AM   #9
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In any case, here a screenschot of the footage with the muted profile that I made with the Pentax K3.
What do you think, how can I improve it talking about high/low keys and loss of details?
Thanks!
Attached Images
 

Last edited by andher76; 06-23-2017 at 07:16 AM.
06-23-2017, 03:06 AM   #10
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what program do you have at your disposal to process it?
06-23-2017, 03:18 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
what program do you have at your disposal to process it?
Processed with a LUT in Premiere Pro
06-23-2017, 03:32 AM   #12
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So this is an export from premiere pro?

There is so much you can do to how it looks.
It all depends on how you want it to look..

Maybe you can post a link to the video itself?
06-23-2017, 07:15 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
So this is an export from premiere pro?
of course no! It is a screenshot from VCL
06-23-2017, 07:24 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by andher76 Quote
of course no! It is a screenshot from VCL
thought so :-)
The screenshot looks good, nice & dull, nothing over/underexposed..

How familiar are you with premiere pro, putting a timeline together, and adding effects to your timeline?


this compilation clip shows various ways of processing the dull 'muted' look...
06-23-2017, 12:32 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
thought so :-)
The screenshot looks good, nice & dull, nothing over/underexposed..

How familiar are you with premiere pro, putting a timeline together, and adding effects to your timeline?


this compilation clip shows various ways of processing the dull 'muted' look...
Very interesting, thank you.
My question is, at this point, what is the BEST setting for High/Low keys in order to loss the less info is possible.
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