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07-02-2017, 05:54 AM   #16
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Could somebody tell me which cameras take 4K etc. etc video and match the still taking capabilities of, say, the K1. A quick google search doesn't seem to offer many alternatives.

07-02-2017, 06:21 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
but... do we know that is true? Nope. Could be. Couldn't be. Couldn't tell for sure.

anyone get the reference?
The newer and more expensive Milbeaut 8 chipset does 4k video.

The proven Milbeaut 7 in the Nikon D810 and Pentax K-1 does HD.
07-02-2017, 07:32 AM - 1 Like   #18
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My opinion: if you want to work commercially, then having a video-ready camera is basically a must.

It's clear that for the future, that's where a lot of your revenue will come from. Clients often want the option of someone that can shoot some basic video in addition to stills.

Having good quality video on your Pentax would make people more likely to spend time learning the ropes and having fun with video.

Right now the Pentax is quite unfun to use for video, and not great to use for basic commercial shoots, due to the quality of the video + lack of effective in-video focusing.

I accept that for many existing Pentax users video may not be important, but if Pentax as a brand is going to grow and be sustainable, then it needs to attract new users. And if you're aged between 20 and 30 and you want to make money from your camera, I can guarantee you're not going to be thinking about stills and video as mutually exclusive. Right now Pentax is diminishing it's appeal to a broad swathe of the market, namely young aspiring professional who need to make money from video as well as stills.

If Pentax can on-board more young users, then it's going to grow sales and grow market share, and that's going to allow it to invest more money in bringing new lenses to market. In that scenario, everyone wins. (Personally I'd love Pentax to release a D-FA* 24-70).

If there is ever a K1 version II, then it NEEDS to have 4K video and a clean HDMI out, as well an overhauled autofocus system that is integrated with video.
07-02-2017, 08:28 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The newer and more expensive Milbeaut 8 chipset does 4k video. The proven Milbeaut 7 in the Nikon D810 and Pentax K-1 does HD.
Good to know. But I'd be perfectly happy with GOOD 1080p. That would be a start.
Many professional cinema cameras, Arri cameras, don't do 4k.

---------- Post added 07-02-17 at 11:34 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by dofmaster Quote
Right now the Pentax is quite unfun to use for video, and not great to use for basic commercial shoots, due to the quality of the video + lack of effective in-video focusing.
To some extent Pentax is better than the competition for controls in video, at least comparing to some Canon aps-c cameras i've used. Pentax will give you a histogram while you shoot, and, as usual, has more customizability. The quality is a different issue, of course.

QuoteOriginally posted by dofmaster Quote
And if you're aged between 20 and 30 and you want to make money from your camera, I can guarantee you're not going to be thinking about stills and video as mutually exclusive.
That's me! (Almost, not quite in that bracket yet ) I certainly want to do both, and one system is entirely preferred over two. Not to mention, there is no way I can afford two anyways.
I stand by what I have been saying for a while, and what I told Ricoh in the survey - As a member of the new generation of Pentax, I'm not upgrading my K-30 until the video quality in Pentax is improved. (Or until it dies I suppose). Just like anyone else who is entirely satisfied with their camera as is, and has no reason to change unless something significantly different is added.


Last edited by Imp; 07-02-2017 at 08:39 AM.
07-04-2017, 03:47 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Video ? Who cares ...I don't If I did I'd go elsewhere. Pentax, to me, are a stills cameras. I tell Ricoh that every chance I get
And thank you for Effing up what other people want to enjoy.

Do you see any of the Pentax Cinematographers whining that 'We don't use cameras for stills, you should disable stills,.."

No, you don't see that, because we don't do it, we just put up with all the whining from those still stuck in the 19th century that don't understand they're using computers with video functions that are tuned-down to do One Frame Per Shutter Press, just to keep the Stills crowd happy.

In the parlance of my people, Quit ya whinging!


The deliberate efforts of people to actively prevent others from enjoying their own part of the visual arts, Must End Now.

---------- Post added 04-07-17 at 08:49 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
I do think Ricoh achieve their price advantage from not pushing video.
That, is the dumbest thing I've read all week.

CCD and CMOS Sensors were developed FOR VIDEO, they've been co-opted to Stills.

---------- Post added 04-07-17 at 08:57 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
Could somebody tell me which cameras take 4K etc. etc video and match the still taking capabilities of, say, the K1. A quick google search doesn't seem to offer many alternatives.
In FF there's the A7S and A7S2 from Sony, and IIRC, from Canon the 5D4 and 1DX2 and 1D-C.
Sony Stills fans get to by the A7 for all-round use, A7S for Video, and A7R for sheer stills resolution, Sony is smart that way, offering customised versions.

In APSc there's a couple more Sony's, such as the a6300 and a6500

In M4/3, there's the GH4, GH5, G85, GX85, and IIRC, the GX850 - with the first four also supporting 4K HDMI output, and the GH5, G85 and GX85 all having Sensor Shift In Video.

All the above range in price from the GX85 in the sub $1000 (AU) range, to 4 times the price of a K-1 for the Canon 1DX2.

Cine Cameras capable of extracting a RAW DNG still frame at 4K and above, are the BMPC4K at around AU$3000, the Cion at around AU$8000 (not including external recording PC ) BMD's Ursa range from AU$7000 to AU$15000 depending on options, and the Sony FS5 and FS7, Kinefinity cameras, and the Red's at around AU$60,000 New by the time you're ready to shoot.

---------- Post added 04-07-17 at 09:16 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by dofmaster Quote
My opinion: if you want to work commercially, then having a video-ready camera is basically a must .....etc etc (ommitied to reduce size of post)...... If there is ever a K1 version II, then it NEEDS to have 4K video and a clean HDMI out, as well an overhauled autofocus system that is integrated with video.
Ab-so-frakking-loutely! And especially the points about preferring a single system over doubling the amount of gear needed, and the costs involved.

Nearly all the job adverts for Real Estate Photography here in Melbourne, are asking for "FF, 12mm or wider, 4K video, Drones a plus".
Working Photog's are not going to be getting work with Pentax's current models in that industry.

You simply cannot market a new camera going in to 2018 without 4K.

Some parts of the Pentax Video - the retaining image inormation outside the IRE limits, and the customisability of the image profiles, are spot on terrific.

But the HDMI being screwed up, too-low data-rates, lack of All-I-Frame CoDec, lack of Sensor Shift,... OMG - the GX85 and G85 both have 5-axis stabilisation, in bodies that retail at less the AU$1200 (around US$900) for the G85, and AU$899 for the GX85 - AU$899 was the Launch Price of the K-01 DownUnder.

Improvement Must Be Made.

Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 07-04-2017 at 04:21 AM.
07-04-2017, 04:24 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
In FF there's the A7S and A7S2 from Sony, and IIRC, from Canon the 5D4 and 1DX2 and 1D-C.
Sony Stills fans get to by the A7 for all-round use, A7S for Video, and A7R for sheer stills resolution, Sony is smart that way, offering customised versions.

In APSc there's a couple more Sony's, such as the a6300 and a6500
It seems that other makers, apart from Sony, aren't falling over themselves to capture the alleged hordes of disgruntled Pentax users
07-04-2017, 04:52 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
It seems that other makers, apart from Sony, aren't falling over themselves to capture the alleged hordes of disgruntled Pentax users
It's more, those of us who want better video in Pentax bodies, have already been forced to add other bodies to our collections.
I missed out on a VG900 a month or so back - they're FF and so DNG stills, but only HD video.
I'm looking at the G85 now, because it does 4K and I can hook it up to my Atomos Shogun.
I do get the advantage of still being able to use my collection of K-mount lenses on the Sony, Canon and Panasonic cameras, but none of them have the came colour characteristics the Pentax bodies do, and they all clip two or more stops out of their Dynamic Range when switched to video - Pentax retains that range.

Here's the thing about comparing video on the Full Frame cameras,.... It's a false comparison, as the vast majority of 'Cinema' style video is not shot FF, it's shot APSc, because APSc is very close to Super35.

So, a better question would have been, what other APSc/S35 based cameras do 4K and can match the stills quality of the K-01, K-3, K-3ii or K-70.

The answer is "Most of the ones made since 2016"

If that question was "Match the stills capability of the KP in low light,...." The answer is NONE. If that isn't a big opportunity to grab with both hands and shake the industry, I don't know what is.



*Only the A7s and A7s2 can shoot video in the same sort of low light that the KP can, and they have a lower resolution FF sensor to do it.

07-04-2017, 04:58 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
It seems that other makers, apart from Sony, aren't falling over themselves to capture the alleged hordes of disgruntled Pentax users
Hm, it also doesn't seem to be that Pentax is falling over themselves to capture the hordes of disgruntled Canon filmmakers...
Kidding aside, that's a silly point, no-one said there are hordes of disgruntled Pentax users. The few, the proud, we filmmakers might be unhappy about video in Pentax Land, but that's only because we want to stay with Pentax because we love what they've got. How can nobody understand that? "Oh, get a different camera" "Oh, get a camera that's meant for video". Bah Humbug.
07-04-2017, 05:44 AM   #24
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Bah Humbug, and Seconded!
07-04-2017, 05:46 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
And thank you for Effing up what other people want to enjoy.

That, is the dumbest thing I've read all week.
Why so ? You say the video is currently not up to it, so it follows that development money would have to have been expended by Ricoh to bring the K-1 up from a first class stills camera with moderate video (apparently) to something that would satisfy yours and others' video requirements. Add the time delays into the mix and the price would have risen, or features currently in the K-1 would have been degraded. I hear you say the hardware is up to the task, but the software and testing is where the costs would have been. So why dumb ? Just curious ...
07-04-2017, 06:57 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
The few, the proud, we filmmakers might be unhappy about video in Pentax Land, but that's only because we want to stay with Pentax because we love what they've got. How can nobody understand that? "Oh, get a different camera" "Oh, get a camera that's meant for video". Bah Humbug.
Do you 'filmmakers' assume that Pentax/Ricoh haven't considered the financial viability of upping their game in the video arena? Given that their expertise lies in developing and producing high quality stills cameras why should they spend scarce resources on competing with cash rich Sony. This may not please the 'filmmakers but if it ensures the future of Pentax
07-04-2017, 07:16 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
Do you 'filmmakers' assume that Pentax/Ricoh haven't considered the financial viability of upping their game in the video arena?
Nope, I haven't assumed that

QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
Given that their expertise lies in developing and producing high quality stills cameras
That's why we are here, to start with

QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
why should they spend scarce resources on competing with cash rich Sony
Competing means designing new cutting edge technology that is on par with cash rich Sony. We're not asking for that. We know Pentax is small. We know their R&D goes into competing on the still side, and that is working great. They're growing.

All we (or at least I) am saying, is that Pentax, in order to
QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
ensure the future
needs to keep their video quality at modern day standards and not at 2012 levels. That's all.

Look, I said this earlier - I'm 18, I'm the new generation, and I KNOW if any of my friends are interested in taking the step up from their smartphone camera, they are looking for something that is capable at both stills and video. So the video should not be bad enough that it is a turn-off for potential new users. That's all.

If a friend asks me what would I recommend for both filmmaking and photography, I usually mention the A6000, which has good 1080p (and obviously budget is a constraint amongst my peers)
07-04-2017, 09:34 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
So why dumb ? Just curious ...
Read the next sentence in my reply above.

QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
You say the video is currently not up to it, so it follows that development money would have to have been expended by Ricoh to bring the K-1 up from a first class stills camera with moderate video (apparently) to something that would satisfy yours and others' video requirements.
Nope.

It's writing the firmware properly for all new models, and then porting over the functions that work on the previous models.

Y'know, the same as getting the Red Screens for Astrotracers ported backwards on to previous models, the same as the Firmware released for the 645Z most recently.

I'm sure all the Anti-Video Stills-Onlyers won't whine about the Firmware Teams taking the time to add functions to the low-production-volume Medium Format camera, in they way they all whine about ANY requested improvement to the Video functions.

I would bet good money, that there are more people out there using the Video functions on any single APSc model, then there are owners of 645Z's, and substantially more then the number of 645Z owners who use the Astrotracer function.


---------- Post added 05-07-17 at 02:38 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
Do you 'filmmakers' assume that Pentax/Ricoh haven't considered the financial viability of upping their game in the video arena?
I assume that none of the Shareholders have asked why the Video feature set is so 2012, and why every other camera manufacturer has rushed to implement Sensor Shift in Video, SEVEN YEARS after Pentax shut it off in Video.



SEVEN YEAR Head start over the competition, wasted.


That's SEVEN YEARS in which they could have been marketing a Feature that ONLY PENTAX HAD. Can you say "Lost Sale Opportunity" with me?


It could be switched on in every model from K-01 to K-1, with a simple reminder that it'll make noise on the audio track.

Noise that's barely discernible compared to the Screw Drive AF.

---------- Post added 05-07-17 at 02:42 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
This may not please the 'filmmakers but if it ensures the future of Pentax
No, it Ensures that Pentax doesn't maximise the sales potentials and build a larger market share, which in turn would mean having more sales income to use to develop better DSLR and MILC bodies for ALL types of use.

---------- Post added 05-07-17 at 02:45 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
Look, I said this earlier - I'm 18, I'm the new generation, and I KNOW if any of my friends are interested in taking the step up from their smartphone camera, they are looking for something that is capable at both stills and video. So the video should not be bad enough that it is a turn-off for potential new users. That's all.
If that doesn't make Ricoh-Pentax take note of what they need to do to make NEW sales and build Customer Loyalty, I don't know what will.

It'd just be nice if the people that don't have any interest in Video, would stop deliberately making negative comments - you lot Are Not driving new sales, you're driving sales DOWN.

Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 07-04-2017 at 09:50 AM.
07-04-2017, 10:54 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
.

Y'know, the same as getting the Red Screens for Astrotracers ported backwards on to previous models ... (etc)
Really think you should just buy that G85, PDR.

We're all allowed to own more than one camera, even from different brands. I certainly do.

Last edited by clackers; 07-04-2017 at 11:05 AM.
07-04-2017, 11:13 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
We're all allowed to own more than one camera, even from different brands.
Not if ya can't afford it.
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