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02-28-2018, 11:00 PM - 1 Like   #16
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Yup,! I read the rest of your comment before posting, but it's an important point we need to keep making.

03-01-2018, 06:38 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
A lot of time for Steve, so no harm done.


Cripes, just saw the Sony A7 iii release info. Man those guys are going for it. HDR 4k video options, but Pentax offer 2012 Full HD at 17 - 24 Mbps like that's acceptable in 2018...
Yes, but still no 4K60, and still a 29 min recording limit, things that Panasonic has fixed on the GH5 and GH5s. Unfortunately, those are no FF.
If I had to buy one today, I would buy the GH5s, though.

I hope Sony fixes all this on the A7S III .
03-01-2018, 09:34 PM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Yes, but still no 4K60, and still a 29 min recording limit, things that Panasonic has fixed
Time limit is a tax thing. Not expecting that, and personally it doesn’t bother me at all. I’m not using a DSLR for 30min+ takes.

If Pentax offered 4k 24fps I’d be happy. Heck I’d take 1080p or 2.7k with IBIS returned and clean hdmi output.
03-03-2018, 09:27 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Time limit is a tax thing.
Somehow, Panasonic seems to be OK with passing on the tax. Wonder why Sony is not.

Though I have read stories of those A7S IIs overheating, so it may not only be a tax thing for Sony.

QuoteQuote:
Not expecting that, and personally it doesn’t bother me at all. I’m not using a DSLR for 30min+ takes.
I don't either, but I wish I could.

QuoteQuote:
If Pentax offered 4k 24fps I’d be happy. Heck I’d take 1080p or 2.7k with IBIS returned and clean hdmi output.
Certainly 4K 24 would be better than 1080i Pentax has today.

03-03-2018, 12:12 PM - 1 Like   #20
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The problem is that at this point the core audience of Pentax seems anti-video. They do not want video, and they see any improvement in video as a bad sign. Almost anyone who does care about video has already left Pentax. The survey is fine, but the results are skewed. Pentax is going to get confirmed what they believed all along, not noticing that they could be selling a lot more cameras if they did invest a bit in video. I bought a Panasonic because video. Is it not as good for stills? Yeah. Do I still shoot stills? Yeah. Is the difference in stills quality so big that I'd go through trouble of bringing along the Pentax? Actually, no. Or rarely.

And what features would I like to see? Where to even begin? No crop with punch in crop at the push of a button, even when recording. Mechanical SR that can be adjusted. A proper codec with high enough bitrate. 4K. Ideally raw video. Decent video AF wouldn't hurt. Focus peaking that actually works well, during recording of course. Good microphones that work in loud environments. Flat color profile, i.e. log.
03-04-2018, 08:02 PM   #21
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Raw, Video...... As an Aja Cion owner, you can not believe what a pain in the butt getting corporate support for Raw video is.
03-05-2018, 01:56 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The problem is that at this point the core audience of Pentax seems anti-video. They do not want video, and they see any improvement in video as a bad sign. Almost anyone who does care about video has already left Pentax. The survey is fine, but the results are skewed. Pentax is going to get confirmed what they believed all along, not noticing that they could be selling a lot more cameras if they did invest a bit in video. I bought a Panasonic because video. Is it not as good for stills? Yeah. Do I still shoot stills? Yeah. Is the difference in stills quality so big that I'd go through trouble of bringing along the Pentax? Actually, no. Or rarely.
Which Panasonic did you end up buying for video ?
It seems top me that for stills, the low-light noise performance is significantly worse on say, the GH5, even compared to my lowly K-30, according to DXO. Wonder how the GH5s will score on that - hopefully better. But the GH5s has only 10MP which is a bit limiting if you want to do large prints.
Also, the GH5s lacks in-body stabilization. Seems to me one may still be better off carrying 2 bodies at the moment.

03-05-2018, 10:24 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Which Panasonic did you end up buying for video ?
It seems top me that for stills, the low-light noise performance is significantly worse on say, the GH5, even compared to my lowly K-30, according to DXO. Wonder how the GH5s will score on that - hopefully better. But the GH5s has only 10MP which is a bit limiting if you want to do large prints.
Also, the GH5s lacks in-body stabilization. Seems to me one may still be better off carrying 2 bodies at the moment.
I ended up with the GX80, which is as small and light as it can get I guess. Yes, it's not as good as the K-5 for stills. Low light performance is meh in comparison. However how often do I need such great low light performance? In those instances I can carry the K-5. But most of the time, the GX80 will do just fine, and the benefit of significantly improved video (and the size advantage) easily make up for any shortcomings in terms of stills. Plus, if there is enough light there's actually something I like about the way GX80 photos look like.
03-05-2018, 10:17 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I ended up with the GX80, which is as small and light as it can get I guess. Yes, it's not as good as the K-5 for stills. Low light performance is meh in comparison. However how often do I need such great low light performance? In those instances I can carry the K-5. But most of the time, the GX80 will do just fine, and the benefit of significantly improved video (and the size advantage) easily make up for any shortcomings in terms of stills. Plus, if there is enough light there's actually something I like about the way GX80 photos look like.
What ISO do you consider usable for stills on your GX80 ?
I find that ISO up to 6400 is good on my K-30 . I have set it to ISO AUTO 100-6400 and almost never override it.
The high ISO is mostly useful for indoor shooting when lighting conditions are often insufficient at lower ISOs.

My first camera, a K200D, could only go up to ISO 1600, and that was too grainy to be usable. The K-30 was a huge improvement.
I gave my K200D to my mother, but she didn't use it much because of this limitation. She does a lot of indoor shooting too.
Last Xmas, she visited me, and I bought a K-50 for her on ebay for $250. She is very happy with it.
I now have my old K200D back, but it's collecting dust. I tried to sell it locally on craigslist, but so far, no takers.

GX80 and the current replacement, GX85 look like they have no stupid 29 minute recording limit. That sounds very interesting. Of course, it doesn't do 60p at this price, or 400 Mbps bit rate recording, but its price with a lens is 1/4 the cost of a GH5s body only. The 16MP is probably just fine for that sensor size. I'm OK with the 16MP on my K-30 for stills, and the MFT sensor is smaller than APS-C, so higher MP is probably not a great idea for noise.

Thank you for pointing me in the direction of this camera. I have been a bit squeezed financially lately and just don't have it in my budget to go for the GH5s + a couple of lenses, even though I really want them. Seems like keeping the K-30 for stills and this Panasonic for video would be a great combo. Apparently, the GX85 with 2 lenses can be had for under $600 ... And if I found the money for the GH5s later on, I would already have the lenses for it.

Looks like the GX85 has an EVF also, which is a biggie for stills.

Last edited by madbrain; 03-05-2018 at 10:22 PM.
03-06-2018, 02:05 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
What ISO do you consider usable for stills on your GX80 ?
I find that ISO up to 6400 is good on my K-30 . I have set it to ISO AUTO 100-6400 and almost never override it.
The high ISO is mostly useful for indoor shooting when lighting conditions are often insufficient at lower ISOs.

My first camera, a K200D, could only go up to ISO 1600, and that was too grainy to be usable. The K-30 was a huge improvement.
I gave my K200D to my mother, but she didn't use it much because of this limitation. She does a lot of indoor shooting too.
Last Xmas, she visited me, and I bought a K-50 for her on ebay for $250. She is very happy with it.
I now have my old K200D back, but it's collecting dust. I tried to sell it locally on craigslist, but so far, no takers.

GX80 and the current replacement, GX85 look like they have no stupid 29 minute recording limit. That sounds very interesting. Of course, it doesn't do 60p at this price, or 400 Mbps bit rate recording, but its price with a lens is 1/4 the cost of a GH5s body only. The 16MP is probably just fine for that sensor size. I'm OK with the 16MP on my K-30 for stills, and the MFT sensor is smaller than APS-C, so higher MP is probably not a great idea for noise.

Thank you for pointing me in the direction of this camera. I have been a bit squeezed financially lately and just don't have it in my budget to go for the GH5s + a couple of lenses, even though I really want them. Seems like keeping the K-30 for stills and this Panasonic for video would be a great combo. Apparently, the GX85 with 2 lenses can be had for under $600 ... And if I found the money for the GH5s later on, I would already have the lenses for it.

Looks like the GX85 has an EVF also, which is a biggie for stills.
The GX85 is AFAIK the US name of the GX80? Something like that. It should be the same camera though. The GX85, being not sold in Europe, may not have the 30 minute limitation (the GX80 does).

The GX80/85 has one main advantage: It's SMALL, and it packs quite a punch. Basically it seems like they packed one of the bigger cameras into a tiny body. You can enable Cinelog D and Cinelog V via a simple hack, it has shake reduction, and a few other nice things. It does lack all the nice buttons bigger Panasonics have though. I have the two lens kit... the 12-32 (which is tiny, but has great image quality), and the 35-100, which I also like.

If you want to, you can read my full review on the GX80 (Google Translate may help...), or at least see some sample photos (and video).
Panasonic Lumix GX80: Ernstzunehmende Alternative zur Spiegelreflex? ? Cyberbloc

As for low light performance... I'd say I would be willing to use 6400 if necessary, however I'm pretty painless when it comes to noise. ISO 6400 is IMHO close to 12800 on my K-5, however Lightroom is able to filter away color noise on the GX80 better than it is with the K-5. I mean on the K-5 after Lightroom is done there are still bigger blobs of various colors, where it should be even. On the GX80 it's much more even. And color noise is the one thing that does bother me. That being said: If you need good low light performance, look elsewhere. Also, for some odd reason long exposures are a nightmare with the GX80. ISO 200 for 15 seconds may look worse than ISO 51200 on the K-5 for 30 seconds. It's an issue some Panasonic models seem to have.
03-09-2018, 11:43 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The GX85 is AFAIK the US name of the GX80? Something like that. It should be the same camera though. The GX85, being not sold in Europe, may not have the 30 minute limitation (the GX80 does).
Yes, the manual for the GX85 says this :

QuoteQuote:
Depending on the recording conditions and the type of card, the number of recordable pictures
and available recording time vary.
• MP4 motion pictures with a [Rec Quality] size of [FHD], [HD] or [VGA]:
Recording stops when the continuous recording time exceeds 29 minutes and 59 seconds or
the file size exceeds 4 GB.
• MP4 motion pictures with a [Rec Quality] size of [4K]:
Motion picture file will be recorded and played back in separate files in the following cases
(You can continue recording without interruption.):
– When using an SDHC memory card: If the file exceeds 4 GB
– When using an SDXC memory card: If the continuous recording time exceeds 3 hours and
4 minutes or If the file exceeds 96 GB
I read this to mean that in 4K on an SDXC card, I can record up to 3 hours and 4 minutes continuously or 96GB, whichever comes first.

QuoteQuote:
If you want to, you can read my full review on the GX80 (Google Translate may help...), or at least see some sample photos (and video).
Panasonic Lumix GX80: Ernstzunehmende Alternative zur Spiegelreflex? ? Cyberbloc

As for low light performance... I'd say I would be willing to use 6400 if necessary, however I'm pretty painless when it comes to noise. ISO 6400 is IMHO close to 12800 on my K-5, however Lightroom is able to filter away color noise on the GX80 better than it is with the K-5. I mean on the K-5 after Lightroom is done there are still bigger blobs of various colors, where it should be even. On the GX80 it's much more even. And color noise is the one thing that does bother me. That being said: If you need good low light performance, look elsewhere. Also, for some odd reason long exposures are a nightmare with the GX80. ISO 200 for 15 seconds may look worse than ISO 51200 on the K-5 for 30 seconds. It's an issue some Panasonic models seem to have.
Thanks. I found some high ISO pictures of the GX85 and was not impressed compared to my K-30. I can't speak for the K-5, but I get excellent results on my K-30 . I never do long exposures, though. I will experiment, but I think I will continue to use the Pentax for stills.
I think the GX85 will fit my needs for video, though. I just ordered a kit from an authorized dealer that includes both a 12-32 and 45-150 lens. $599 retail price, less $100 for 20% off on ebay today - $499 net, not too bad, and certainly much cheaper than a GH5s.

Also ordered a DMW-ZSTRV which is a Panasonic charger with a brand name battery.
And this Fotodiox adapter so I can use Pentax DA and other lenses without an aperture ring :
amazon.com : Fotodiox Lens Mount Adapter - Pentax K Mount (PK) SLR Lens to Micro Four Thirds (MFT, M4/3) Mount Mirrorless Camera Body, with Built-In Aperture Control Dial : Camera & Photo?tag=pentaxforums-20&

Most likely, I will end up using my Sigma 10-20 (old version, f4-f5.6) to shoot indoors in tight spaces with this camera. It doesn't have an aperture ring.

I have been waiting for a proper 4K camera that can continuously record for a while, so I'm fairly excited. Thanks for pointing me in that direction.
03-11-2018, 05:44 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
...
Congrats! I do have to say that yesterday I had to find out that with an adapter you can't really adjust exposure compensation, so it's fully manual then. No auto ISO, unless you're completely happy with the exposure the camera is giving you. A bit of a bummer, IMHO.

Yes, the camera will split up files if necessary, though since I have the European version it will stop after 30 minutes. At 100 Mbps you will need quite a bit of storage though if you shoot very long videos.

And yes, when it gets dark I will use my K-5. Above ISO 3200 or so the two part ways and it gets a lot better on the K-5.
03-12-2018, 06:44 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Congrats! I do have to say that yesterday I had to find out that with an adapter you can't really adjust exposure compensation, so it's fully manual then. No auto ISO, unless you're completely happy with the exposure the camera is giving you. A bit of a bummer, IMHO.
Should be OK for me as I mainly use it on tripod. I can set exposure manually.

QuoteQuote:
Yes, the camera will split up files if necessary, though since I have the European version it will stop after 30 minutes. At 100 Mbps you will need quite a bit of storage though if you shoot very long videos.
I have plenty of storage, so that's not a problem. In any case, I really only want to extract a few minutes from very long takes of myself playing music, out of very long recordings. PowerDirector can do that without any loss and no re-encoding using SVRT. I just don't want to stop and restart the camera all the time. Except when I have a good take, then I want to force stop it so I know to look for the good take at the end of the file later on in post. On my Canon camcorder, I have an IR remote to do that. Not sure if there is an IR remote for the DMC-GX85 . It seems it doesn't have an IR receiver ...

I already received the K-mount to micro 4/3 adapter and AC adapter from Amazon.
The charger & second battery are due this friday.
My camera was shipped today. Estimated delivery date is next monday 3/19.
03-18-2018, 12:36 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I have plenty of storage, so that's not a problem. In any case, I really only want to extract a few minutes from very long takes of myself playing music, out of very long recordings. PowerDirector can do that without any loss and no re-encoding using SVRT. I just don't want to stop and restart the camera all the time. Except when I have a good take, then I want to force stop it so I know to look for the good take at the end of the file later on in post. On my Canon camcorder, I have an IR remote to do that. Not sure if there is an IR remote for the DMC-GX85 . It seems it doesn't have an IR receiver ...

I already received the K-mount to micro 4/3 adapter and AC adapter from Amazon.
The charger & second battery are due this friday.
My camera was shipped today. Estimated delivery date is next monday 3/19.
It has WiFi, so there's an app for that. You can also see the video while it is recording, so you could place your phone somewhere visible to you, and use that to start and stop the camera.

As for storage, I think I'm around 40 TB these days. Not all for the 4K videos, of course, but still. My photos and videos make up a decent chunk of it (especially for redundancy).
03-19-2018, 09:27 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
It has WiFi, so there's an app for that. You can also see the video while it is recording, so you could place your phone somewhere visible to you, and use that to start and stop the camera.

As for storage, I think I'm around 40 TB these days. Not all for the 4K videos, of course, but still. My photos and videos make up a decent chunk of it (especially for redundancy).
I was hoping not to have to use the phone for that. I sometimes use the phone itself as a 4K camera. It would be tricky to use it as a remote at the same time.

Too bad there is no IR receiver on the camera according to the manual. I just received it today, haven't unboxed it yet, I'm about to.
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