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05-29-2018, 12:41 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
That's pretty much the crux of it.

In the early digital sensor days, there was a big difference between versions, as both the tech improved and companies could eek more performance out of them. Pentax always did exceptionally well here, getting better IQ from the same sensor Nikon was using etc. Nowadays, stills wise all cameras are pretty good. Pentax may still be better with a given sensor, but proportionally it borderline doesn't matter as 2nd place is still excellent.

Today we're moving into what else can it do to support my photography? and that includes tracking AF, including eye AF for example, and tracking across the whole sensor rather than just in the middle.

It also means taking video, and honestly every manufacturer has upped their game in this area apart from Pentax. Olympus and Fuji feel like the main competitors for Pentax these days, and they've both come along significantly.
Fuji has now gained IBIS in a new model, and Olympus already has it, and it works in video mode, and the focus peaking keeps working in video mode, and the bit rates are high circa 2017 levels.

This is not a negative Pentax is doomed post, but it is a Pentax are missing the point post.
I totally get your sentiment. I got a panasonic GX85 for video and it takes stunning pictures in normal light to moderate low light. I also got myself an older Nikon D600 full frame because I wanted to try full frame for cheap. Though I like my pentax a lot, I can't help myself using the panasonic now for normal walkaround stuff because its so light and easy to lug around, and as for the Nikon D600, i'm impressed by the Dynamic range and I think it does low light a bit better than Pentax k-3 ii. Now comparing my GX85, K-3 and D600 the only reason my pentax would see greater use than the other two is because I'm invested in the system with my lenses. Even if i wanted to go full frame I could go that route cheaper using a Nikon/canon (not sony) than going the K-1 route. And K-1 and Mark II being a flagship full frame has worse video quality than the Nikon D600 or the Canon 5d Mark ii both of which are more than 7 years older..

05-29-2018, 12:50 PM - 1 Like   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Just did a short in-home comparison of 5 cameras for video purposes.

2009 camera : Canon HG21 HD camcorder, 15mm² sensor, HD / 30fps at 24 Mbps , at its widest angle :
HG21 - YouTube

2012 camera : Pentax K-30, APS-C with DA 18-135WR at 18mm. 370mm² sensor, HD / 30 fps at 16 Mbps :
K 30 - YouTube

2016 camera : Panasonic DC-GX85 with 12-32 lens, around 15mm . 225mm² sensor, 4K / 30 fps at 100 Mbps :
GX85 - YouTube

2017 camera : Galaxy Note 8 smartphone, 24mm² sensor, 4K / 30, about 47 Mbps bit rate :
Note 8 - YouTube

2018 model : Pentax K-1 II full frame with DA 28-105 at 28mm. 864mm² sensor, HD / 30 fps, about 22 Mbps bit rate :
K 1 II - YouTube

Lighting conditions were the same. Cameras were on the same tripod, one at a time. Tripod was moved slightly between tests. Lenses all don't have the same field of view.
I mostly adjusted the focus in each case. Auto wide balance for all cameras.

Picture-wise, the K-30 did the worst by a mile. Got the white balance all wrong, picture is soft, and the sound is also awful which doesn't help. This camera is why I have been complaining about Pentax video all those years.

Next is the Canon HG21 camcorder. Colors are good, but there is significant noise.

Next is the K-1 II . Video noise is very low. Colors are good, except for an anomaly in the sheet music showing some blue that shouldn't be there.

Next is the Galaxy Note 8 . Very sharp picture due to it being 4K. There is visible video noise on my 4K screen.

And finally, the winner is the Panasonic GX85 . Beautiful sharp picture, great colors, no video noise to speak of, which is really amazing considering the 4K video mode is a actually crop of the already-small micro 4/3 sensor. No doubt the 100 Mbps bit rate helps greatly.


All my comments are based on looking at the files out of camera on my monitor, and not after compression by Youtube. If someone wants to look at them, I can upload them somewhere.
The only thing I did was to cut out the beginning / end parts with PowerDirector SVRT, which doesn't do any re-encoding. That feature doesn't work with smartphones files, however, due to variable video bit rate, so the file from the Note 8 was completely unedited .
Awesome work, if on the odd chance I ever plan on getting 4k video, I'll be sure to check out your most recent activities.
05-29-2018, 03:22 PM - 1 Like   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
the K-30 did the worst by a mile. Got the white balance all wrong, picture is soft, and the sound is also awful which doesn't help. This camera is why I have been complaining about Pentax video all those years.
Me too. I upgraded to the K-30 years ago and was gobsmacked to find the sensor stabilisation didn't work in video mode.
Like others I assumed this would be rectified in a firmware update, but alas it's still absent on the very latest cameras 6 years later.
05-30-2018, 01:14 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Awesome work, if on the odd chance I ever plan on getting 4k video, I'll be sure to check out your most recent activities.
I haven't published anything on my Youtube in 4K yet. I haven't been happy enough with my takes in the last year or so to make one public on my main channel. And the music is just a hobby, as is photography and videography.
I'm sure I will have something eventually. The main channel is Julien Pierre - YouTube .

06-04-2018, 04:00 PM   #95
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In case someone wants to have a look at some videos I've taken:
kada jawi - YouTube

Currently I have a Sony Xperia XZ2 for review, which has some strong points, and others which are, well, less than stellar (who thought putting a phone into a casing made of glass was a good idea? It's slippery, fragile (well, if it drops), scratches easily and overheats constantly (glass has the neat property to isolate heat... so the heat is trapped inside).

Anyway, they didn't integrate physical image stabilization, but that doesn't seem to be much of an issue since at least for video the electronic stabilization is really good. No wobbling, and little light streaks when the camera is moved. Seems that with enough processing power and gyros sensors you can actually do impressive stuff. Now, obviously such processing power won't find its way into a DSLR, let alone a Pentax, in the next decade or so. But it's nice to know that electronic image stabilization can work well.
06-04-2018, 11:06 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
the electronic stabilization is really good. No wobbling, and little light streaks when the camera is moved. Seems that with enough processing power and gyros sensors you can actually do impressive stuff. Now, obviously such processing power won't find its way into a DSLR, let alone a Pentax, in the next decade or so. But it's nice to know that electronic image stabilization can work well.
Have the same feelings about the GoPro Hero 6 stabilisation, it's really good.
06-05-2018, 10:47 AM   #97
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I‘m not making videos. But if I‘d be serious about making videos I’d think about a video dedicated solution - especially as a Pentax photographer.

Recently read about this one. Works natively with MFT-Lenses but I guess it should also work with an adapter and Pentax lenses: a Blackmagic Pocket cinema camera 4K.

Article in german language.

What do you think about this solution?

06-05-2018, 11:59 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by acoufap Quote
I‘m not making videos. But if I‘d be serious about making videos I’d think about a video dedicated solution - especially as a Pentax photographer.
Reality is that today there are several products that can perform acceptability well for both duties.

Yes there are specific solutions for video and for stills, but there combo products that do both well enough.

If I was professional, as in it was a business, then yes I’d go for two systems, but as a hobbyist with a capped budget for this type of thing, I want to use the same body for both duties.

Pentax doesn’t allow for that as much as other most other brands now do. There video offering is still approx 2012 levels. Compared to that, yes other video offerings look attractive.
06-06-2018, 01:03 AM - 1 Like   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by acoufap Quote
Recently read about this one. Works natively with MFT-Lenses but I guess it should also work with an adapter and Pentax lenses: a Blackmagic Pocket cinema camera 4K.

Article in german language.

What do you think about this solution?
I've done some work with the BMC 4k. Image is very nice.
Pentax lenses would do great on it.
The thing i found with the BMC 4k though, is that one has to color grade it & be prepared to put some time & effort in. As opposed to other tools (like a nikon or panasonic gh e.g. i guess)
I understand the new pocket cam to offer more flexibility in this regard. but i don't know.
06-10-2018, 02:59 PM   #100
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I've pondered for quite a time if I shoulld buy a GH2... need something that can be hacked to remove the 30' recording limit (often need 1 to 2hrs unattended)

Problem is that even with an adapter my Pentax lenses would have too narrow a FoV... I could use the Sigma 10-20, but it hasn't got an aperture ring, and the aperture control on adapters is often quite primitive. Plus it would weight what? two times the weight of the camera? XD
06-10-2018, 04:20 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
often need 1 to 2hrs unattended
I'd ask if you need interchangeable lenses or low light ability etc?

If not, then a more handicam style camera would be ideal for this.

eg if you are recording a lecture for example, then you don't need stunning IQ etc. Just set and forget.
06-11-2018, 01:03 AM - 1 Like   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
I'd ask if you need interchangeable lenses or low light ability etc?

If not, then a more handicam style camera would be ideal for this.

eg if you are recording a lecture for example, then you don't need stunning IQ etc. Just set and forget.
I have a Canon Legria, kinda basic...purple fringing is like 10 pixel on 1080p
I record concerts so I want more quality, and am a little put off by the less-than-stellar reviews of dedicated camcorders costing almost 1000€.
I don't necessarily need interchangeable lenses, but I need good lenses, and I already have those.
06-11-2018, 09:09 PM - 1 Like   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
I've pondered for quite a time if I shoulld buy a GH2... need something that can be hacked to remove the 30' recording limit (often need 1 to 2hrs unattended)

Problem is that even with an adapter my Pentax lenses would have too narrow a FoV... I could use the Sigma 10-20, but it hasn't got an aperture ring, and the aperture control on adapters is often quite primitive. Plus it would weight what? two times the weight of the camera? XD
Buy a cheaper and newer GX85, not GH2 . US model has no 30 min limit. European model does. Can confirm I can record 4K up to 1h44 on battery on my GX85, and that's with the screen off. You may need the AC adapter to go longer. Or second battery. Even then, I think there is a break at 96GB / 1h44 . Have not tested it fully yet. My needs are not beyond 1h44. I wonder if this limit was put in to match the run length of theatrical movies.

My GX85 with battery, SD card and strap weighs exactly 1 lb. My Sigma 10-20 also weigh 1 lb exactly, including lens hood and front cap (attached with lens keeper) and a 77mm UV filter.
The Fotodiox adapter weighs 4 oz.

It's true that volume wise, it looks a bit strange to have a tiny camera with such a big lens. But then again, you have people with APS-C DSLRs shooting with Sigma 50-500mm Bigma ... It's much less ridiculous than that.

Here are a few pics in no particular order of
GX85 with Fotodiox K mount adapter, Sigma 10-20 K-mount, no hood or front cap
GX85 with Fotodiox K mount adapter, Sigma 70-300 APO K-mount, at 300mm and focus ring extended, with hood, no front cap
GX85 with 12-32mm, retracted (can't shoot), no front cap
K-30 with Sigma 70-300 APO K-mount, at 300m and focus ring partially extended, with hood, no front cap

Big lenses like the 70-300 are just going to look huge regardless of the body they are attached to.
I have a K-1 II as well, not pictured because it's currently on its way to Precision camera for damage repair estimate. That 70-300 lens still looks huge on it. Gets a lot of attention in public places, I have to say. I never fail to get asked to shoot pics, lol.

What I can say after a few months of owning the GX85 with PK adapter is that the Fotodiox aperture ring adapter works fine. The aperture ring on the adapter works whether the lens has an aperture ring or not. It is more difficult to take out the lens if there are two aperture rings, for example with this Sigma 70-300 .
But the lens will be very secure for sure, even a lens that big. Due to having cut my nails very short yesterday, I needed a screwdriver to pull the tab on the MFT adapter while rotating the 70-300 lens. So I can highly recommend the adapter.

Focus a Pentax lens manually on the GX85 is ... interesting. And quite challenging. On the one hand, the EVF can get magnification and do focus peaking. On the other hand, there is notable lag. This is much worse with zoom than with wide angle lens. Worse, it's very hard to choose the focus point while doing that to magnify the part you want to be sharp. The only method that I have found that works is tapping my nose around on the touch screen. Maybe there is another method. If shooting handheld, it is very challenging to focus that way.
To me, this is one of the huge disadvantages of the GX85 having a touch screen. Some functions can only be performed with the touch screen. There is just no hard button option. And due to the small MFT body, the buttons are in short supply. This makes the ergonomics really dubious for stills vs a larger Pentax APS-C or FF body.

The stabilizer in the GX85 is much less effective than the K-1 II . I actually ran a test recently on the forums. But this was confirmed again today.
Also, even though you set the focal length in the GX85 for stabilizer purposes when using a non-native lens, that focal length does not get recorded into the EXIF. Very annoying. On a Pentax, I could set 8mm for my Samyang fisheye, or 800mm for my Samyang mirror, and that ended up in the EXIF.
This is all for stills. I just can't recommend using the GX85 for stills with non-native lenses due to the extreme difficulty of manual focusing, at least for me. Even with native lenses, I just will not take many still photos with this camera. It will be mainly used for video. It is still not pocketable even with the smallest 12-32 lens. So, my Galaxy Note 8 cell phone will remain the camera of daily opportunity for stills. And Pentax for all planned shoots.

Now, if your use case is video only, on tripod, everything changes significantly. There is no shake that the subpar Panasonic stabilizer can't fix - you turn it off on tripod.
You can focus the lens using the full LCD rather than the smaller EVF, and magnify your focus area relatively easily. Main challenge is not to move the camera while pressing the touch screen. Heavier tripod will thus be better even for such a tiny camera.

Biggest issue with the Sigma 10-20 IMO is that it just isn't that sharp, at least my copy. That remains the case whether I shoot on a natively K-1 II or K-30 or K200D, or on GX85 with adapter. My sharpness tests are with text readability. The Pentax bodies do better of course due to larger sensor. But readability is still poor. This is clearly not what an ultra-wide angle lens is meant for, of course. For concert, it will be more than enough. If you are recording, say, a lecture, and there is projected text, there may be readability issues, because of both the lens and MFT sensor, depending on lighting conditions. Keep in mind I'm just an amateur playing with cameras mostly at home. My GX85 has barely left the house, and even then, only half a mile on a walk, unlike my Pentax bodies.

I also experimented with the Sigma 10-20 on my K-1 II in FF mode using a Tamron 1.4X AF teleconverter. Was not happy with results. There is still significant vignetting. And higher IQ from FF mode isn't really noticeable. Only if you wanted to do crops, maybe. But then you wouldn't be using an ultra-wide angle. Perhaps for some security application recording a crowd and doing face recognition on a large number of people. At which point you would be using interval shooting in FF mode, or recording 4K video instead. Either way, it's hard to justify keeping my Sigma 10-20 at this point. Selling it won't pay for a Pentax 15-30 . Not even 1/3rd of an Irix 11mm or 15mm which is manual focus only and seems to have significant IQ issues too per PF's review.
Attached Images
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PENTAX K-30  Photo 
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PENTAX K-30  Photo 
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PENTAX K-30  Photo 
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PENTAX K-30  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
DMC-GX85  Photo 
06-11-2018, 11:42 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Buy a cheaper and newer GX85, not GH2 . US model has no 30 min limit. European model does.
*snip*
Wow, thanks, that's worth of a sticky!
Very interesting pieces of information... it looks like the GX85 is a camera that satisfy my needs.
My 10-20 is the f/3.5, and has very good resolving power, at least in the center: it's got a weak right side at 10mm, but it will be cropped on m43, so...
Will keep my eyes peeled for one, thanks again!
06-12-2018, 12:43 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I also experimented with the Sigma 10-20 on my K-1 II in FF mode using a Tamron 1.4X AF teleconverter
Yes, ive done this....i think crop mode(16mp) is OK.This lens rates highly in the reviews and its cheap used,maybe your copy is not so good?

The 16mp file is a 15-30mm fov.
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