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04-18-2018, 08:41 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Thanks for the offer. I hope you won't mind , but DP Review provided the comparison I was looking for.

Pentax KP Review: Digital Photography Review

I was able to compare the K-P to K-3 II, K-50, and K-1 . My K-30 should be nearly identical to K-50 in terms of performance.
Their nifty tool allows changing light conditions to low-light, and all ISO ranges are covered.
Overall, the K-50 and K-3 II appear to have fairly similar performance levels in terms of noise, even though the K-3 II has more detail due to higher MP.
But the K-P really trounces the K-3 II at higher ISO. That's really impressive. Some shots even seem to match the K-1 . When all are adjusted for identical size, you would have a difficult time picking K-P and K-1 apart in many shots.
I may just need to pick up a K-P for the stills performance (not video).
Yeah, that accelerator unit really makes a difference. It was a great call to put it in the K-1 II.


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04-19-2018, 12:46 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Yeah, that accelerator unit really makes a difference. It was a great call to put it in the K-1 II.
I think you mean K-3 II . DPreview doesn't have the review or test shots for the K-1 II yet.
04-19-2018, 12:50 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I think you mean K-3 II . DPreview doesn't have the review or test shots for the K-1 II yet.
No I mean it was a great idea to upgrade the K-1 II with the accelerator unit, because of how close the performance of the KP came to the original K-1 in some cases.

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04-19-2018, 12:58 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
No I mean it was a great idea to upgrade the K-1 II with the accelerator unit, because of how close the performance of the KP came to the original K-1 in some cases.
Oh, I see. Yes, that makes sense. I wonder how much that will improve it over the K-1 .
I also checked the K-70 on DPReview and K-P was still significantly better. May need to start saving up for it ...
K-1 / K-1 II are still too rich for me especially given the need for new FF lenses.

04-19-2018, 01:38 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I also checked the K-70 on DPReview and K-P was still significantly better. May need to start saving up for it ...
IQ wise? They should be essentially the same, with the KP just allowing for higher top end ISOs.

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04-19-2018, 02:51 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
IQ wise? They should be essentially the same, with the KP just allowing for higher top end ISOs.
Yes, noise wise, low light, high ISO, the K-P was well ahead of the K-70, at least to me. One example attached. Unfortunately the upload shrunk it considerably, but if you recreate those conditions in the DP Review tool, you will see more clearly. Just less noise at ISO 12800 - 25600.
Didn't really look beyond that. The really high ISOs on K-P are a gimmick and not really practical to use.
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04-19-2018, 12:17 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Yes, noise wise, low light, high ISO, the K-P was well ahead of the K-70, at least to me. One example attached. Unfortunately the upload shrunk it considerably, but if you recreate those conditions in the DP Review tool, you will see more clearly. Just less noise at ISO 12800 - 25600.
Didn't really look beyond that. The really high ISOs on K-P are a gimmick and not really practical to use.
I always take such tests with a grain of salt, but to me, the K-70 shot appears to have more natural colors. The nose and eyebrows are also clearer. However, it has been over-sharpened somewhat.

All this could be explained by the profiles used to develop the raw files. In this case, for example, baseline color noise reduction was not applied, which would have been done almost always in practice.

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04-20-2018, 05:00 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I always take such tests with a grain of salt, but to me, the K-70 shot appears to have more natural colors. The nose and eyebrows are also clearer. However, it has been over-sharpened somewhat.

All this could be explained by the profiles used to develop the raw files. In this case, for example, baseline color noise reduction was not applied, which would have been done almost always in practice.
Yes, I'm sure it's subjective, but to me, everything on the K-P high ISO raw looked better around the whole test frame vs the K-70. If I'm going to upgrade from the K-30, I would probably go to K-P and skip K-70 . There are other benefits of the K-P of course that seem to make it worth the extra cost vs K-70. I wonder when it's going to drop below the current $900 price for a new body. Not many used ones for sale yet either. Maybe if I can sell 3 camera bodies (Canon HG21 camcorder, Pentax K200D, Pentax K-30), I can justify the upgrade now..

04-22-2018, 06:29 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canid Quote
How does this compare to the K-7 I already own? My understanding was that video compression took a dive after the K-5 and never recovered.
Not quite correct.
The K-5 was the last to use Mjpeg, everything after uses Mpeg4 (h.264)

The Mjpeg data rate could have been a little faster, and the h.264 data rate is definitely too low, but the CoDec's work in very different ways, so that doesn't paint the whole story.

Mjpeg is an Intra-Frame CoDec, Mpeg4 is an Inter-frame CoDec, with the h624 variant being described as a 'Long-GoP' version.

Intra-Frame CoDec's do all their compression within each single frame.

Inter-Frame CoDec's add in predictive math, and compress across a 'Group of Pictures', by copying repeated data from a keyframe ( " i-Frame " ) across following frames. h.264 uses more frames, hence Long-Group of Pictures.

h.264 All i-Frame is compressed more then Mjpeg, but functions the same, without copying data between frames.

Intra-Frame is a lighter processing load on Editing hardware and software, even with a required higher data bandwidth for the same quality vision.

QuoteOriginally posted by Canid Quote
Also, are we sure that the overheating issue is fixed for all current models?
I've shot stuff with guys using K-30's, K-3's and K-1's,... I don't know who say's Pentax has an overheating issue, but in my personal experience, it's total bullshit.

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
but the KP sensor's native lower noise levels combined with higher video resolution
Correction - Higher Data Rate - the Resolution is still only 1920x1080.

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Not sure what you mean by "manual Pentax lenses" here
Always means K, KM, KA - Non AF lenses as 'Manual Focus' lenses.
Later AF lenses are a bit crap for video, because the focus throws are too short, and many brands switch to a clutched focus ring without end-stops, which makes Focus-Pulls unreliable.

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I'm not sure about the video auto-focus capabilities on the K-P either. On my K-30, I can press the "AF" button to refocus, but there is no way to change the focus point after the recording is started, as far as I know. That is quite a shortcoming for hand-held use.
Use the custom keys menu options - in video the AE button can be assigned to do AF, like back-button-focus for Stills.
Press and hold to refocus in video, but expect it to be slow, miss focus if the light's low, and create a shedload of noise from the screw-drive (making a total mockery of the 'we switched it off because it could be heard in video argument for the lack of mechanical SR since the K-5)

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
For handheld use, rolling shutter has been nothing short of horrible in the K-30. Has this been improved in the K-P ?

K-01, K-30, K-3, K-1 all eat Sony, Canon and BMD cameras alive in this regard, from K-1 to KP, the only DSLR type camera with better Rolling Shutter characteristics, is the Nikons (using the same sensor and processor supplier).
The only place you're going to get better performance in this regard, is smaller sensors - like the M4/3rds from Panasonic - or with a gimbal,... or a Global Shutter camera, like the Cion or the BMD4K Production Camera and 4K Ursa family.

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
IMO it's irresponsible to recommend a current Pentax DSLR if one is doing 95% video. The Pentax bodies are great for stills, but their video is simply not competitive nowadays.
Most of the people on this forum and the fb Pentaxian's group don't do more then tourist or enthusiast level video, the sort of thing Millennials would do on their phones, and for that, at HD, the Pentax's are still acceptable.
The right event, a KP would even pass for broadcast news.

Indie Film, Cinema, Drama Production, Music Videos, Corporate Video, those definitely need better bodies now.

QuoteOriginally posted by Canid Quote
I bought the FA 35/2 specifically for indoor low light situations where using flash was undesirable or not possible, so it has become my default video lens for anything indoors.
he he he,... I shoot soooo much on my KA 35 f2, it's almost the go-to for my Cion with the focal reducer when on the shoulder indoors.

Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 04-22-2018 at 06:35 PM.
04-22-2018, 09:37 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
I've shot stuff with guys using K-30's, K-3's and K-1's,... I don't know who say's Pentax has an overheating issue, but in my personal experience, it's total bullshit.
Unfortunately, I am also speaking from personal experience (not anything I've read). I definitely have overheating issues with my K7 that kick in after maybe 30-40 minutes at warmish indoor temperatures (26C maybe?).

Your reply was very informative regarding intra vs inter frame codecs. I was not impressed with the sharpness of video captures from the KP shown on the dpreview website (Pentax KP Review: Digital Photography Review) in fact, they are so bad, I wonder if they missed focus for the test.


My captures from the K7 are much, much better. I would be interested in seeing frames from forum anyone's K3 or KP for comparison.
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04-23-2018, 01:07 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
Not quite correct.
The K-5 was the last to use Mjpeg, everything after uses Mpeg4 (h.264)

The Mjpeg data rate could have been a little faster, and the h.264 data rate is definitely too low, but the CoDec's work in very different ways, so that doesn't paint the whole story.

Mjpeg is an Intra-Frame CoDec, Mpeg4 is an Inter-frame CoDec, with the h624 variant being described as a 'Long-GoP' version.

Intra-Frame CoDec's do all their compression within each single frame.

Inter-Frame CoDec's add in predictive math, and compress across a 'Group of Pictures', by copying repeated data from a keyframe ( " i-Frame " ) across following frames. h.264 uses more frames, hence Long-Group of Pictures.

h.264 All i-Frame is compressed more then Mjpeg, but functions the same, without copying data between frames.

Intra-Frame is a lighter processing load on Editing hardware and software, even with a required higher data bandwidth for the same quality vision.


I've shot stuff with guys using K-30's, K-3's and K-1's,... I don't know who say's Pentax has an overheating issue, but in my personal experience, it's total bullshit.


Correction - Higher Data Rate - the Resolution is still only 1920x1080.


Always means K, KM, KA - Non AF lenses as 'Manual Focus' lenses.
Later AF lenses are a bit crap for video, because the focus throws are too short, and many brands switch to a clutched focus ring without end-stops, which makes Focus-Pulls unreliable.


Use the custom keys menu options - in video the AE button can be assigned to do AF, like back-button-focus for Stills.
Press and hold to refocus in video, but expect it to be slow, miss focus if the light's low, and create a shedload of noise from the screw-drive (making a total mockery of the 'we switched it off because it could be heard in video argument for the lack of mechanical SR since the K-5)



K-01, K-30, K-3, K-1 all eat Sony, Canon and BMD cameras alive in this regard, from K-1 to KP, the only DSLR type camera with better Rolling Shutter characteristics, is the Nikons (using the same sensor and processor supplier).
The only place you're going to get better performance in this regard, is smaller sensors - like the M4/3rds from Panasonic - or with a gimbal,... or a Global Shutter camera, like the Cion or the BMD4K Production Camera and 4K Ursa family.


Most of the people on this forum and the fb Pentaxian's group don't do more then tourist or enthusiast level video, the sort of thing Millennials would do on their phones, and for that, at HD, the Pentax's are still acceptable.
The right event, a KP would even pass for broadcast news.

Indie Film, Cinema, Drama Production, Music Videos, Corporate Video, those definitely need better bodies now.


he he he,... I shoot soooo much on my KA 35 f2, it's almost the go-to for my Cion with the focal reducer when on the shoulder indoors.
This should be edited into a sticky.

Oh, I too concur that any rumor in regards to overheating must be a very minor rumor indeed.


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04-25-2018, 04:55 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
Use the custom keys menu options - in video the AE button can be assigned to do AF, like back-button-focus for Stills.
Press and hold to refocus in video, but expect it to be slow, miss focus if the light's low, and create a shedload of noise from the screw-drive (making a total mockery of the 'we switched it off because it could be heard in video argument for the lack of mechanical SR since the K-5)
On the K-30, the AF button already does refocus during video by default, without remapping. The problem is that it only refocuses on the initially chosen focus point when the recording began. If I chose it in the bottom left for example, it will refocus only at that same point. And even after pressing AF and having it re-focus, it does not ever display the focus point again, so you can't be sure exactly where the camera thinks it focused, much less change it.
In the "live view" "contrast AF" menu, I select the third option. In video mode, before starting the recording, press and hold the "OK" button. Then you see grid of 100 CDAF focus points. You can select any one of them with arrows. But only before the recording starts, and never afterwards. That requires stopping the recording, as far as I can tell. I would love to be proven wrong on this.
And yes, the removal of mechanical SR for video is BS.

QuoteQuote:
K-01, K-30, K-3, K-1 all eat Sony, Canon and BMD cameras alive in this regard, from K-1 to KP, the only DSLR type camera with better Rolling Shutter characteristics, is the Nikons (using the same sensor and processor supplier).
The only place you're going to get better performance in this regard, is smaller sensors - like the M4/3rds from Panasonic - or with a gimbal,... or a Global Shutter camera, like the Cion or the BMD4K Production Camera and 4K Ursa family.
I really would hate to see what those Sony and Canons behave like in terms of rolling shutter. The Jello effect is downright horrible on my K-30, to the point where I can't even think about taking handheld video with it.
Everything seems fine with my new GX85 micro 4/3 in that regard - not noticeable.
And no such effect on cell phone video either, even in 60fps or 4K.

Here is an example . You'll need to switch to full screen to see how bad it is.

QuoteQuote:
Most of the people on this forum and the fb Pentaxian's group don't do more then tourist or enthusiast level video, the sort of thing Millennials would do on their phones, and for that, at HD, the Pentax's are still acceptable.
I find the Pentax K-30 video worse than modern cell phone video in almost all regards, except for the ability to attach lenses. Just about everything else is worse - recording time, bit rate, resolution, manual controls while recording, camera/lens self-noise. My Note 4 video was better, and Note 8 video is way better.

QuoteQuote:
The right event, a KP would even pass for broadcast news.
Maybe on a tripod and under ideal light conditions. Even when I attempted it, my smartphone did better.
07-06-2018, 01:25 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canid Quote
My captures from the K7 are much, much better.
There's a lot of subtle detail and colour information in the first shot there - the graduations in the liquid being poured is rather nice.

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
The problem is that it only refocuses on the initially chosen focus point when the recording began.
I normally use center weighted, so haven't observed the behaviour you mention,... which would be a right pain in the ar,....
I'd love to know what choosing Face Recognition as the AF mode does, and if that moves the focus around with the people.

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Here is an example . You'll need to switch to full screen to see how bad it is.
Yikes!
For me that looks like MovieSR is switched on, in my experience, that makes the rolling shutter jello significantly worse.
07-06-2018, 01:35 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
I normally use center weighted, so haven't observed the behaviour you mention,... which would be a right pain in the ar,....
Yes, I use spot AF too most of the time. But still, it would cost Pentax nothing to just re-display the center AF point on the LCD, so we know where it's actually refocusing. Of course, one should be able to change the AF point too during a video. Clearly Pentax didn't think about AF & video much in the same sentence.

QuoteQuote:
I'd love to know what choosing Face Recognition as the AF mode does, and if that moves the focus around with the people.
Does the face recognition AF even work for video for the initial focus ? Can't say I have ever tried it as my subjects tend not to be people.

QuoteQuote:
For me that looks like MovieSR is switched on, in my experience, that makes the rolling shutter jello significantly worse.
Yes, it most likely was. This was when I had just gotten my K-30. Probably with a long focal length, too. Most likely 250mm on DA 18-250. Not sure if the focal length info is actually in the file, and where that file might be on my HDD. If one is zooming in/out while shooting, I don't know where it would be recorded. Focal length recorded separately for each frame ? I don't recall ever having access to that sort of info in my consumer video editing program, PowerDirector. Not to say that it's not part of the file formats.

Even when turning off Movie SR, the rolling shutter did not disappear, though. Nor did the washing machine sound when recording indoor in quiet space on tripod.
08-27-2018, 11:20 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canid Quote
TLDR: I know Pentax has fallen behind in video since the K-7...

I have the K-7 and I would really like to upgrade at some point to reap the benefits of the past decade of camera development.

That said, when I bought my K-7, Pentax's video features were competitive, and were part of the reason I chose the model I did.


I have a nice collection of lenses now, I love the Pentax ergonomics, and I don't want to leave the brand. I use my camera primarily for stills, but sometimes, I film concerts...
Did you ever decide what to do?
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