[texandrews]

Hrrrrm,...

In the first few minutes, I'm noticing the fine detail in the shadows, the bark on the trees showing the data rate is much improved, but still not high enough yet - just before the 4:30 mark, the subject walks past and embankment, where after his shadow passes, there are patches of the stones that flicker and change brightness level, with the patches being areas of separate compression processing.

These artifacts no doubt only show up in edited footage that is getting re-compressed by Youtube.

During those first few minutes, I can also hear the self-noise in the camera's internal systems, some of the motor noise for the IBIS system, sounding more like raised background noise floor then the clicking of the previous systems - I can recognize it as I've held the body of cameras against my ear to listen to the internals

It is quiet enough to be mistaken for wind noise by most people.

5:10,... the light though the water bottle,...Niiiiiiice.


6:19,... and there it is, botches of colour as the CoDec runs out of bit's to use when dealing with the noise in low light / high ISO scenes. As the subject fits the head light, note the blotching in the sky, but the sharp blotch-free image where the head light illuminates the fence post.

This will be avoided if we're able to record the HDMI output on to an external recorder with a better CoDec, this is the test we all need to see.
The 8-bit output will limit this though.


Note when walking through the fog, in places the bit allocation of the CoDec actually leave the subject almost transparent as some frame have him in the image and some don't, as the bits are spread around the image.


With Youtubes auto-translate,.. YES! his point about the Colour Science of Pentax in Stills and Video being the same, is something I've kept on about for a long time. Pentax's Colour Science for Jpegs and Video, is far far superior to Canon's, Sony's, Nikon's and Panasonics Video Colour Science, with only Nikon coming close.

He then mentions being able to change shutter speed, f-stop and ISO during recording - this is something that us Pentax Video folk are used too, but other DSLR makers don't seem capable of performing.


13:45 is the demo of the IBIS,.. it rocks.

---------- Post added 16-05-21 at 07:56 PM ----------



10 bit HDMI and Flip Screen?


Okay, maybe 200mBits HEVC for the 4K






Yep, those sorts of ISO's really need much higher bit rates, but really, if people need to shoot in that low light, they're better off hiring a Gaffer and Lights.

So...how do you feel about the crop? Kind of a deal breaker for me....

[repaap]

Hrrrrm,...

In the first few minutes, I'm noticing the fine detail in the shadows, the bark on the trees showing the data rate is much improved, but still not high enough yet - just before the 4:30 mark, the subject walks past and embankment, where after his shadow passes, there are patches of the stones that flicker and change brightness level, with the patches being areas of separate compression processing.

These artifacts no doubt only show up in edited footage that is getting re-compressed by Youtube.

During those first few minutes, I can also hear the self-noise in the camera's internal systems, some of the motor noise for the IBIS system, sounding more like raised background noise floor then the clicking of the previous systems - I can recognize it as I've held the body of cameras against my ear to listen to the internals

It is quiet enough to be mistaken for wind noise by most people.

5:10,... the light though the water bottle,...Niiiiiiice.


6:19,... and there it is, botches of colour as the CoDec runs out of bit's to use when dealing with the noise in low light / high ISO scenes. As the subject fits the head light, note the blotching in the sky, but the sharp blotch-free image where the head light illuminates the fence post.

This will be avoided if we're able to record the HDMI output on to an external recorder with a better CoDec, this is the test we all need to see.
The 8-bit output will limit this though.


Note when walking through the fog, in places the bit allocation of the CoDec actually leave the subject almost transparent as some frame have him in the image and some don't, as the bits are spread around the image.


With Youtubes auto-translate,.. YES! his point about the Colour Science of Pentax in Stills and Video being the same, is something I've kept on about for a long time. Pentax's Colour Science for Jpegs and Video, is far far superior to Canon's, Sony's, Nikon's and Panasonics Video Colour Science, with only Nikon coming close.

He then mentions being able to change shutter speed, f-stop and ISO during recording - this is something that us Pentax Video folk are used too, but other DSLR makers don't seem capable of performing.


13:45 is the demo of the IBIS,.. it rocks.

---------- Post added 16-05-21 at 07:56 PM ----------



10 bit HDMI and Flip Screen?


Okay, maybe 200mBits HEVC for the 4K






Yep, those sorts of ISO's really need much higher bit rates, but really, if people need to shoot in that low light, they're better off hiring a Gaffer and Lights.

I’m still waiting for my K-3III. Going to put it through places. About lights. Yes. It is something what every one will be using, not just to make it work, but also to look good.

---------- Post added 05-16-21 at 19:34 ----------

So...how do you feel about the crop? Kind of a deal breaker for me....

Really? Well that is a bummer. After all, many cameras interoduce 1.1 crop for 4K. I suppose that this 0.08 is quite bad on top of that. Edit. Actually many crop even 1.2 or more and as much as Pentax too which is 1.18. Wonder if that has also something to do with aspekti when photos and aspect ratio when shooting video also. Not to mention or forget things like sensor read out and adjust for filming in mind. There was something about why to use a video cam at the first place.

[madbrain]

Really? Well that is a bummer. After all, many cameras interoduce 1.1 crop for 4K. I suppose that this 0.08 is quite bad on top of that. Edit. Actually many crop even 1.2 or more and as much as Pentax too which is 1.18. Wonder if that has also something to do with aspekti when photos and aspect ratio when shooting video also. Not to mention or forget things like sensor read out and adjust for filming in mind. There was something about why to use a video cam at the first place.

Aspect ratio is the same for HD and 4K - 16:9, which is 1.77. Pentax sensor is approximately 15:10 or 1.5 . So there has to be a vertical crop on top and bottom, 1.18 crop.
In theory it could be the same 1.18 crop for 4K and HD. In practice it looks like Pentax is cropping 4K further, possibly because of overheating or processing power issues.
Most likely what they are doing is mapping one pixel of the sensor to one pixel in the video in 4K mode, rather than trying to average pixels. That would explain the further crop.
Sensor on K-3 III is 6192 x 4128 . If you are just taking the 3840x2160 pixels in the center, that means cropping 38% on horizontal side and 52% on vertical side.
The sensor is 23 x 15.5mm on the K-3 III. If my guess and math are correct, that would mean the 4K recording video area of the sensor is about 14.26 x 8.05 mm.

By comparison, my GX85 has a 17.33 x 13mm sensor. The crop ratio is 1.16 on the vertical side. So, the 4K video recording area of the sensor is 17.33 x 9.79 mm .

If my assumption is correct, then the video recording area of the K-3 III in 4K mode is smaller than my GX85 micro 43 camera. And that camera doesn't have any silly 4GB or 25 minute limit, too. It has dual IBIS (both body and lens). And 100 Mbps recording for 4K, not 80 Mbps like the K-3 III. IMO, don't buy the K-3 III just for its 4K capability.
My GX85 was just $500 with two lenses (12-32 and 40-150).

[repaap]

Aspect ratio is the same for HD and 4K - 16:9, which is 1.77. Pentax sensor is approximately 15:10 or 1.5 . So there has to be a vertical crop on top and bottom, 1.18 crop.
In theory it could be the same 1.18 crop for 4K and HD. In practice it looks like Pentax is cropping 4K further, possibly because of overheating or processing power issues.
Most likely what they are doing is mapping one pixel of the sensor to one pixel in the video in 4K mode, rather than trying to average pixels. That would explain the further crop.
Sensor on K-3 III is 6192 x 4128 . If you are just taking the 3840x2160 pixels in the center, that means cropping 38% on horizontal side and 52% on vertical side.
The sensor is 23 x 15.5mm on the K-3 III. If my guess and math are correct, that would mean the 4K recording video area of the sensor is about 14.26 x 8.05 mm.

By comparison, my GX85 has a 17.33 x 13mm sensor. The crop ratio is 1.16 on the vertical side. So, the 4K video recording area of the sensor is 17.33 x 9.79 mm .

If my assumption is correct, then the video recording area of the K-3 III in 4K mode is smaller than my GX85 micro 43 camera. And that camera doesn't have any silly 4GB or 25 minute limit, too. It has dual IBIS (both body and lens). And 100 Mbps recording for 4K, not 80 Mbps like the K-3 III. IMO, don't buy the K-3 III just for its 4K capability.
My GX85 was just $500 with two lenses (12-32 and 40-150).

I do have two Black magick pocket 4K cameras which have even BRAW for 4KDCI which is plenty. And capacity to record until power or memory runs out. Non interrupted.

Please save me from that preach. As I think that I got it. As well as You I do think that video is not the biggest strength for any Pentax so far. The thing is that it is now good enough for many things. And I’m going to see my self how far I can push it.

But I’m not buying this for that. I’m buying it because it has actually best AF so far and it is most responsive system in photography so far(the thing where your G 85 will still such and I would not buy any of those for that, no matter how good video was. This is where our purposes does differ. Each on their own.

[PiDicus Rex]

So...how do you feel about the crop? Kind of a deal breaker for me....

It's less of a big deal then most people realize, and if it's been done the right way, it can be a boon for overall image sharpness without later video processing required in the camera.

It's a matter of needing to know the number of pixels on the sensor are used for each pixel in the image, and how those sensor pixels are processed in to the video pixel.
When the number of sensor pixels is mathematically easy to process in to the output size, there's less processing load in the camera, and more of the camera's CPU time can be spent on the Colour Science being applied, getting 'better' pixels, rather then more pixels.


One of the other advantages of the right step down in crop, is how it affects Moire - getting the crop right can nearly eliminate Moire.
This is something we'll need to watch and test.

One other thing to consider, is when it comes to P67 and P645 lenses, is that knowing the crop, an adapter manufacturer can use optics that shrink the image circle to match the crop, turning an APSc body in to a Medium Format 'appearing' video camera, but without the negatives of the larger sensor, such as the increased Rolling Shutter readout skews when panning.

[repaap]

It's less of a big deal then most people realize, and if it's been done the right way, it can be a boon for overall image sharpness without later video processing required in the camera.

It's a matter of needing to know the number of pixels on the sensor are used for each pixel in the image, and how those sensor pixels are processed in to the video pixel.
When the number of sensor pixels is mathematically easy to process in to the output size, there's less processing load in the camera, and more of the camera's CPU time can be spent on the Colour Science being applied, getting 'better' pixels, rather then more pixels.


One of the other advantages of the right step down in crop, is how it affects Moire - getting the crop right can nearly eliminate Moire.
This is something we'll need to watch and test.

One other thing to consider, is when it comes to P67 and P645 lenses, is that knowing the crop, an adapter manufacturer can use optics that shrink the image circle to match the crop, turning an APSc body in to a Medium Format 'appearing' video camera, but without the negatives of the larger sensor, such as the increased Rolling Shutter readout skews when panning.

I did receive my K-3 III today. There is quite a bit of rolling shutter. But nothing I can’t handle (I have BMPCC4K after all I do agree that crop is not that big deal, but it is there. All in all video does look alright to me and 1080 is very good IMO. Pentax colour is really nice too. 8-bit is a bummer, But I’ll shoot some video over the weekend. Panning and using SR will take some time to nail, and buying a gimbal might still be lurking around the corner... but for that crop. If one want ultra wide (where it would be most needed?) 16 mm is not 23 but it is around 27 mm (FF equiv) and so on and so forth. With longer lenses it would not matter IMO. Many UW shots look weird on film. I suppose that 11 mm this guy used is approx 17 mm equivalent. It is wide and I would not really go wider than that, unless it is FE or something goofy at the beginning..I’ll slap my 10-17 FE later today on my K-3III

[PiDicus Rex]

Post links to samples when you can.

[repaap]

Post links to samples when you can.

I will

[texandrews]

Thank you both, PiDicus Rex and repaap. I look forward to hearing/seeing more. Maybe the camera isn't out of the running for me....

[repaap]

I posted a video in flickr. Nothing amazing and still getting hang of things. Noticed that SR is alright. Jello is there and ergonomic is not the best, so when I focus of move hand even slightest it shakes and jitter. I suppose that with little a bit better rig OR with that DA*16-50 with continious AF things coud get quite nice. This is my first day with video hand held. And I actually think that this could work. I should have chosen more heavy lens to make it more steady...

[repaap]

Tried some shooting today, handheld, but with strap around my shoulders to give to me support. Result is nice actually. Not sure when I get the time to make another video. And will propably try to learn more about quirks. Now I know what to do and what to not to. This is not removing the need for gimbal. But I suspect that with gimbal it will be sweet. And with that coming up 16-50 PLM. Image quality and colour is very nice, as seen on this video from that pentako.

Going to propably make a thread for K-3III video. I’ll be confident enough to take this camera with me on my next gig to go with BMPCC4K. For more moving and easy setup b-cam. And I’ll take tripod with me too...

[texandrews]

Tried some shooting today, handheld, but with strap around my shoulders to give to me support. Result is nice actually. Not sure when I get the time to make another video. And will propably try to learn more about quirks. Now I know what to do and what to not to. This is not removing the need for gimbal. But I suspect that with gimbal it will be sweet. And with that coming up 16-50 PLM. Image quality and colour is very nice, as seen on this video from that pentako.

Going to propably make a thread for K-3III video. I’ll be confident enough to take this camera with me on my next gig to go with BMPCC4K. For more moving and easy setup b-cam. And I’ll take tripod with me too...

Yes, please do start a K3III video thread!

[repaap]

Yes, please do start a K3III video thread!

Thanks! I think that I will. I just had fun with my big joby gorillapod and made it to be ’cheap’ shoulder support. Immediatelly it did kill most of my problems. Next will be to become better in video shooting and finding idea...

[PiDicus Rex]

I posted a video in flickr.

Can you use Vimeo instead? Flickr isn't a video hosting site in the same way Youtube and Vimeo are, so online playback is never going to be as smooth and consistent there.

Vimeo uses a lot less re-compression compared to youtube, and has less effect of colour reproduction too.

[repaap]

Can you use Vimeo instead? Flickr isn't a video hosting site in the same way Youtube and Vimeo are, so online playback is never going to be as smooth and consistent there.

Vimeo uses a lot less re-compression compared to youtube, and has less effect of colour reproduction too.

Thanks! Yes I can use vimeo and will in future.