[Bob 256]

Do tell, who offers this option?


Steve

Doing further research, it appears that this comment was anecdotal at best (the mention that the K3III was available in 30/60 or 25/50 versions came from a post somewhere else). I changed my original post to reflect that the 25/50fps options were dropped in the K3III version, but it would be of great interest to this thread if anyone could comment on having a 25/50 fps capable K3 Mark3.

[Fries]

PAL refers to the broadcast standard "Phase Alternate Line". That term is often used to refer to electronic imaging shot at 25 fps, but it's probably an inappropriate use of the term. High definition shooting incorporates both the NTSC and PAL frame rates of 30 and 25 fps respectively (and some others) but "lines" are irrelevant since HD uses the pixel approach and the horizontal and vertical resolutions of HD are completely different from that of conventional PAL television.

The bottom line is that you're just referring to HD (with a frame rate appropriate for those countries who use the 25fps frame rate) and not PAL (hence the 1080p30, 720p60, 1080p25, 1080i60, etc., etc., designations) Video shot at 30 fps can be converted to 25 fps and visa versa, but there is some interpolation done (dropped frames or repeated frames) so it's best to shoot at the frame rate driven by the final video display chosen (which the reason the OP desires to shoot 25 fps where the display is television driven at 25 fps). Changing frame rates can look ok but it's best if that doesn't happen, particularly for smooth motion like pans and street scenes with slow moving vehicles. An artifact called "judder" can be introduced when converting frame rates and it shows up in smooth motion as a jerkiness. If one is to convert to 25 fps, shooting at the 24 fps rate is probably better than 30 fps since it's closer to the 25 fps rate and converts more easily (24 fps is provided to relate to the motion picture frame speed and is included in the HD standard). Interestingly, if television broadcast was not the intermediary in the process (video fed straight to an electronic display), frame rate probably wouldn't matter that much because many modern electronic displays refresh at a 120 Hertz rate, common to 24, 25, 30, and 60 fps (they all divide evenly into 120), and the display provides the "conversion" without judder - you see the original camera frame rate on the display.

But back to the OP's issue. In reading further, it appears that the 25/50 fps options were dropped between the MarkII and MarkIII versions. Perhaps there was an issue with including both in the processing engine for that camera. That's really strange (there was one reference as to the MarkIII being available in 25/50 fps on special order - no 30/60 fps) . As for the K-1, don't use crop mode. Just shoot full frame in movie mode and select the 25 fps rate and see what happens. There will be some sensor cropping which the camera makes to fit the 16:9 aspect ratio, but you might find the video better than with crop mode. Full frame can be used unless it's a lens limitation which calls for crop mode (e.g., an APS-C lens). The DFA shouldn't.

Thanks Bob for your insights! I have shot full frame video with the K-1 successfully but in my user case I am trying to film birds and sometimes nesting birds. So I have to stay as far away as possible. Using the APC-crop function of the K-1 gives me a bit more reach and allows the use of the 1.4 rear converter.

I think as Fries points out, there's the additional point of fluorescent lighting flickering when the AC frequency is 50 rather than 60!

It actually was @Snakeisthestuff that mentioned that but that is not my biggest objection since I am mostly shooting video outside. I don't have a case around my DSLR and my hot shoe is in use for my microphone. So I don't have any place to attach a light anyway.

Do tell, who offers this option?


Steve

I think Bob already addressed this.

Interesting topic!

I know that my K-5 offers the ability to choose between PAL and NTSC.

This choice isn't availlable on my KP. Although the KP's menu system offers 60i, 50i, 30p, 25p and 24p. When I was filming at a Taekwondo event in a sports hall. I chose FullHD @ 30p. My god - because of the artificial light I got real flickering mess! In short - not usable and I couldn't find a satisfactory method to remove it. Even the nice little software TLDF (Time-lapse Deflicker) didn't help.

Some days ago I bought the extremely compact Sony ZV-1 - a dedicated VLogging camera. Terrible menu system but the video capabilities are amazing. And that's what I was looking for to get more accustomed with filming and synchronise with my audio field recorder via timecode. There's also the ability to change between PAL and NTSC using whatever frame rate you can think of up to 4K @ 30p. Only using the NTSC path you get to 4K@30p. Interestingly - if you change from Pal to NTSC the camera reformats the SD card. I guess this is necessary due to performance.

I asked my boss for a Sony FS5 or FS7 but we are a small, publicly and somewhat underfunded outfit. There are three solutions available to me. I can use what I have. We can hire a freelance cameraman and that is precisely what we are doing for my current project: De maitiidsswalker fan 10 maaie 2021 17:15 | Omrop Fryslân. But that option is not alway's on the table because cameramen with the right equipment are not growing on trees and the cost can be prohibitive. And the third option is to invest my self in better video gear. But since I am not a freelancer and am working under contract that doesn't make that much sense.

Yes, Ot seems that PAL shooters are out of luck with the new K-3III. K-1 offers 50&60i. I have to say that I’m happy with that ’i’ being gone. But this is not good in your case.

About fluoricent flicker, FPS does not matter as much as your shutter speed. Fixing that, will fix flicker. Interlaced which this 50i is referointi to is just that image is half the info, and it looks like it is striped in non PAL system. Especially if you broadcast. In that way it is nice, in any other way, let’s say youtube, Facebook, vimeo. Itseosaamistoiminta not really look good.

I've got the shutter speed covered but with my new camera that does not solve the 'problem'.

Doing further research, it appears that this comment was anecdotal at best (the mention that the K3III was available in 30/60 or 25/50 versions came from a post somewhere else). I changed my original post to reflect that the 25/50fps options were dropped in the K3III version, but it would be of great interest to this thread if anyone could comment on having a 25/50 fps capable K3 Mark3.

And it would be of great interest to me too Bob! I have emailed a request to give us this option to Ricoh-Pentax Europe. In the automated reply they promise to respond within two working day's. I'll report back if that helped or not!

Thanks everybody for your interrest and support!

[stevebrot]

I think Bob already addressed this.

Yes...I saw that. It will be interesting to see Ricoh/Pentax reply.


Steve

[Fries]

Yes...I saw that. It will be interesting to see Ricoh/Pentax reply.


Steve

I'll report back if they do. If they don't I can be rather persistant in a polite way after 30 years in journalism.😉

[PiDicus Rex]

I'll report back if they do. If they don't I can be rather persistant in a polite way after 30 years in journalism.��

I'd be interested to hear the reply too - I offered to bring in my Atomos Shogun to the local distributors (CRKennedy) and run a test to see if the K-3-iii had the HDMI frame rate output issue fixed and could be recorded externally,... they indicated they would be doing a test like that and publishing it,.. no sign of it being done yet! :P

Besides the stupidity on the price, and the lack of a proper class leading flip/fold screen, not being able to record in 25 and 50 fps is another reason for me to Not Buy a K-3-iii.

I'm repeated deflated by the continuing idiocy in decision making by the people in charge at Pentax, especially in regards to Video functionality.

[repaap]

They managed to get electronical shutter working in last FW update. So they might have some things still under constuction. To me it feels that there is plenty of things they need to fix to get this thing working(K-3III) very well, before they’ll put more effort to video. I believe that there are many who want to use this also for video, so we just need to make them listen.

It is good enough now, but it could and should be better.

[Fries]

I'd be interested to hear the reply too - I offered to bring in my Atomos Shogun to the local distributors (CRKennedy) and run a test to see if the K-3-iii had the HDMI frame rate output issue fixed and could be recorded externally,... they indicated they would be doing a test like that and publishing it,.. no sign of it being done yet! :P

Besides the stupidity or the price, and the lack of a proper class leading flip/fold screen, not being able to record in 25 and 50 fps is another reason for me to Not Buy a K-3-iii.

I'm repeated deflated by the continuing idiocy in decision making by the people in charge at Pentax, especially in regards to Video functionality.

Haven't heard anything back after my inquiry and did not have the time to follow up because I am too busy doing stuff my boss pay's me for.😉 I know Pentax isn't that bothered with video. That way I am not that easy disappointed!😁

[Arnie1]

I have a large number of video clips from previous cameras (Pentax K3 and many others) all in 50p, 50i or 25p framerates. To add some new clips from the K3-iii, this comes in at either 30p or 24p. So, when integrated in the overall video, it looks terrible / jerky. There is simply NO possible way to avoid this. Framerate conversion can be done, but will never work well. It is physically impossible.
We need Pentax to add at least 25p, and also 50p or 50i to the K3-iii.. I am sure this can be done as a firmware update.

[acoufap]

I have a large number of video clips from previous cameras (Pentax K3 and many others) all in 50p, 50i or 25p framerates. To add some new clips from the K3-iii, this comes in at either 30p or 24p. So, when integrated in the overall video, it looks terrible / jerky. There is simply NO possible way to avoid this. Framerate conversion can be done, but will never work well. It is physically impossible.
We need Pentax to add at least 25p, and also 50p or 50i to the K3-iii.. I am sure this can be done as a firmware update.

I'd like to know what DaVinci Resolve can do for you when mixing different fps movie snippets.

If interested, the software is free in a basic version. Of course you'd have to register.

Apart from that I also think Ricoh/Pentax should update the fps availability with high priority since in Europe the AC net works using 50Hz. For this the PAL standard was developed. You need 25fps/50fps ... to prevent from flickering if you are filming inside while standard lamp light is switched on. NTSC standard is made for AC net based on 60 Hz. So 30 / 60fps ... fits.