K7 video and Memory cards, or how to fix a 720P problem

jogiba · 09-23-2009, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by osv

i hear what you are saying, but it's not their fault that pentax mis-represented the write speed of the camera.

how many canon users are having these sdhc problems with their 5dII or 7d?

Anyone who does not understand when Pentax says to use high-speed memory card when recording movies should not use a DSLR IMHO. Class 6 cards range from junk to great like my 16GB Sandisk Extreme III 30mb/sec SDHC so if you don't want problems with 720p/1024p *** mode use the 30mb/sec SDHC cards, kapeesh.
from page 49 is K-7 user manual:

Great Class 6:

Junk Class 6:

SD/SDHC Performance Database :
SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s Edition 4GB 20.1mb/sec (write speed RAW D90)
SanDisk Ultra II 4GB 6.4mb/sec
Kingston Class 6 8GB 5.8mb/sec
Patriot Class 6 8GB 4.6mb/sec
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-9597

Last edited by jogiba; 09-25-2009 at 06:53 AM.

osv · 09-23-2009, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

SD/SDHC Performance Database :
SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s Edition 4GB 20.1mb/sec (write speed RAW D90)
SanDisk Ultra II 4GB 6.4mb/sec
Kingston Class 6 8GB 5.8mb/sec
Patriot Class 6 8GB 4.6mb/sec
Rob Galbraith DPI: Nikon D90

that data is irrelevant, because it lists two different write speeds for jpeg vs. raw, which means that the write speed for recording video files is likely to be different than either of those.

i have a patriot 16GB class 6 sdhc card that works perfectly for recording video off of my canon hf11.

the problem here isn't with the cards.

jogiba · 09-23-2009, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by osv

that data is irrelevant, because it lists two different write speeds for jpeg vs. raw, which means that the write speed for recording video files is likely to be different than either of those.

i have a patriot 16GB class 6 sdhc card that works perfectly for recording video off of my canon hf11.

the problem here isn't with the cards.

The fastest card will also be fastest for video and the slowest card will also be slowest for video because data is data just like 7200rpm HDs vs 5400rpm HDs.

falconeye · 09-23-2009, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by osv

the problem here isn't with the cards.

Your Canon HF11 records AVCHD at 24 MBits/s or 3 MByte/s. A low data rate. Pls, think harder before posting.

You managed to get onto my ignore list after only 67 posts. Not bad

osv · 09-24-2009, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

The fastest card will also be fastest for video and the slowest card will also be slowest for video because data is data just like 7200rpm HDs vs 5400rpm HDs.

true, but the most important factor is whether or not the card is fast enough to handle the write speed of the class 6 specification *when using video files*, and those tests do not tell us that.

the idea that you should always buy the most expensive card out there is absurd.

osv · 09-24-2009, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

Your Canon HF11 records AVCHD at 24 MBits/s or 3 MByte/s. A low data rate. Pls, think harder before posting.

You managed to get onto my ignore list after only 67 posts. Not bad

i find it funny that you would confuse post whoring with expertise ;-)

the fact that the card works perfectly proves that it's a quality product.

osv · 09-24-2009, 07:36 PM

and btw, if any of you were wondering why the canon 5d mark II doesn't have these problems with sd cards... it records h.264 video at about 4.8MBps.

bigger frame size, probably better picture quality, at a lower bitrate... because they didn't use the mjpeg codec.

richtrav · 09-24-2009, 11:52 PM

The 5DII has MAJOR problems with all types of SD cards

jogiba · 09-25-2009, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by osv

and btw, if any of you were wondering why the canon 5d mark II doesn't have these problems with sd cards... it records h.264 video at about 4.8MBps.

bigger frame size, probably better picture quality, at a lower bitrate... because they didn't use the mjpeg codec.

I think YOU should just stick with your consumer camcorder since this VDSLR talk is way over your head.

osv · 09-25-2009, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by richtrav

The 5DII has MAJOR problems with all types of SD cards

the 5dii uses cf cards.

osv · 09-25-2009, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

I think YOU should just stick with your consumer camcorder since this VDSLR talk is way over your head.

way over my head? then why was i the only person in this thread who knew that 720p mode records at a higher bitrate than any other mode?

i knew more about the k7 than you did, and i don't even own one.

lets not engage in any more mindless bickering.

jogiba · 09-25-2009, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by osv

way over my head? then why was i the only person in this thread who knew that 720p mode records at a higher bitrate than any other mode?

i knew more about the k7 than you did, and i don't even own one.

lets not engage in any more mindless bickering.

Mindless ? You are correct. The Canon 5D MKII does not have a SD slot, and the fastest SD/SDHC Class 6 cards will always be faster recording video than the cheap junk SD/SDHC cards.

Your quote:
"and btw, if any of you were wondering why the canon 5d mark II doesn't have these problems with sd cards... "

Stick with your toy video camera.

richtrav · 09-25-2009, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by osv

the 5dii uses cf cards.

I know

And for the record, there have been reports of people having recording issues with the 5DII. The issues seemed to clear up when they used the newer faster (and of course pricier) UDMA CF cards.

As for the K-7 (or rather the K-8), I say bring it on!!! I WANT a faster bit rate to keep the quality as absolutely high as possible. I personally prefer motion jpeg since it's easier to edit and play back

osv · 09-26-2009, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

Your quote:
"and btw, if any of you were wondering why the canon 5d mark II doesn't have these problems with sd cards... "

unfortunately, rich took the bait on that one, but it was meant for you, the video noob ;-)

rich... mjpeg sucks because it's very inefficient... that does make it easier to edit, but in a couple of years you won't hear very many complaints about how hard it is to edit avchd/h.264, because the computers will be much faster.

when i started editing video in 1993, it was with the mjpeg codec, on a //fast video machine... shoot in high-8, and capture to scsi drives in a raid system.

when mini-dv camcorders came out, the computers of the day were too slow to play back mini-dv footage that had been captured to the hard drive, so we had to use special video player software, or else watch the video playback on the editing timeline only.

rather similar to where things are with avchd/h.264 these days.

richtrav · 09-26-2009, 03:44 PM

Hmm, maybe we need to get some GH1 owners involved in this conversation, to enlighten us as to the obvious superiority of their AVCHD videos in 1080 mode (hint: you won't find many). We poor Pentax users are stuck with our clean mudless videos that "suck" because they take up too much space

I think you'd have better luck over at the Nikon forums convincing people that motion jpeg is bad. Their videos have a heavier compression so you'd probably have a more receptive audience there

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09-23-2009, 06:04 AM	#31
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by osv i hear what you are saying, but it's not their fault that pentax mis-represented the write speed of the camera. how many canon users are having these sdhc problems with their 5dII or 7d? Anyone who does not understand when Pentax says to use high-speed memory card when recording movies should not use a DSLR IMHO. Class 6 cards range from junk to great like my 16GB Sandisk Extreme III 30mb/sec SDHC so if you don't want problems with 720p/1024p *** mode use the 30mb/sec SDHC cards, kapeesh. from page 49 is K-7 user manual: Great Class 6: Junk Class 6: SD/SDHC Performance Database : SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s Edition 4GB 20.1mb/sec (write speed RAW D90) SanDisk Ultra II 4GB 6.4mb/sec Kingston Class 6 8GB 5.8mb/sec Patriot Class 6 8GB 4.6mb/sec http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-9597 Last edited by jogiba; 09-25-2009 at 06:53 AM.

09-23-2009, 10:43 AM	#32
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by jogiba SD/SDHC Performance Database : SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s Edition 4GB 20.1mb/sec (write speed RAW D90) SanDisk Ultra II 4GB 6.4mb/sec Kingston Class 6 8GB 5.8mb/sec Patriot Class 6 8GB 4.6mb/sec Rob Galbraith DPI: Nikon D90 that data is irrelevant, because it lists two different write speeds for jpeg vs. raw, which means that the write speed for recording video files is likely to be different than either of those. i have a patriot 16GB class 6 sdhc card that works perfectly for recording video off of my canon hf11. the problem here isn't with the cards.

09-23-2009, 11:49 AM	#33
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by osv that data is irrelevant, because it lists two different write speeds for jpeg vs. raw, which means that the write speed for recording video files is likely to be different than either of those. i have a patriot 16GB class 6 sdhc card that works perfectly for recording video off of my canon hf11. the problem here isn't with the cards. The fastest card will also be fastest for video and the slowest card will also be slowest for video because data is data just like 7200rpm HDs vs 5400rpm HDs.

09-23-2009, 05:36 PM	#34
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by osv the problem here isn't with the cards. Your Canon HF11 records AVCHD at 24 MBits/s or 3 MByte/s. A low data rate. Pls, think harder before posting. You managed to get onto my ignore list after only 67 posts. Not bad

09-24-2009, 06:40 PM	#35
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by jogiba The fastest card will also be fastest for video and the slowest card will also be slowest for video because data is data just like 7200rpm HDs vs 5400rpm HDs. true, but the most important factor is whether or not the card is fast enough to handle the write speed of the class 6 specification when using video files, and those tests do not tell us that. the idea that you should always buy the most expensive card out there is absurd.

09-24-2009, 06:43 PM	#36
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by falconeye Your Canon HF11 records AVCHD at 24 MBits/s or 3 MByte/s. A low data rate. Pls, think harder before posting. You managed to get onto my ignore list after only 67 posts. Not bad i find it funny that you would confuse post whoring with expertise ;-) the fact that the card works perfectly proves that it's a quality product.

09-24-2009, 07:36 PM	#37
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	and btw, if any of you were wondering why the canon 5d mark II doesn't have these problems with sd cards... it records h.264 video at about 4.8MBps. bigger frame size, probably better picture quality, at a lower bitrate... because they didn't use the mjpeg codec.

09-24-2009, 11:52 PM	#38
richtrav Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Texas Posts: 82	The 5DII has MAJOR problems with all types of SD cards

09-25-2009, 06:28 AM	#39
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by osv and btw, if any of you were wondering why the canon 5d mark II doesn't have these problems with sd cards... it records h.264 video at about 4.8MBps. bigger frame size, probably better picture quality, at a lower bitrate... because they didn't use the mjpeg codec. I think YOU should just stick with your consumer camcorder since this VDSLR talk is way over your head.

09-25-2009, 10:17 AM	#40
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by richtrav The 5DII has MAJOR problems with all types of SD cards the 5dii uses cf cards.

09-25-2009, 10:26 AM	#41
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by jogiba I think YOU should just stick with your consumer camcorder since this VDSLR talk is way over your head. way over my head? then why was i the only person in this thread who knew that 720p mode records at a higher bitrate than any other mode? i knew more about the k7 than you did, and i don't even own one. lets not engage in any more mindless bickering.

09-25-2009, 12:17 PM	#42
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by osv way over my head? then why was i the only person in this thread who knew that 720p mode records at a higher bitrate than any other mode? i knew more about the k7 than you did, and i don't even own one. lets not engage in any more mindless bickering. Mindless ? You are correct. The Canon 5D MKII does not have a SD slot, and the fastest SD/SDHC Class 6 cards will always be faster recording video than the cheap junk SD/SDHC cards. Your quote: "and btw, if any of you were wondering why the canon 5d mark II doesn't have these problems with sd cards... " Stick with your toy video camera.

09-25-2009, 09:32 PM	#43
richtrav Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Texas Posts: 82	Originally posted by osv the 5dii uses cf cards. I know And for the record, there have been reports of people having recording issues with the 5DII. The issues seemed to clear up when they used the newer faster (and of course pricier) UDMA CF cards. As for the K-7 (or rather the K-8), I say bring it on!!! I WANT a faster bit rate to keep the quality as absolutely high as possible. I personally prefer motion jpeg since it's easier to edit and play back

09-26-2009, 01:26 PM	#44
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by jogiba Your quote: "and btw, if any of you were wondering why the canon 5d mark II doesn't have these problems with sd cards... " unfortunately, rich took the bait on that one, but it was meant for you, the video noob ;-) rich... mjpeg sucks because it's very inefficient... that does make it easier to edit, but in a couple of years you won't hear very many complaints about how hard it is to edit avchd/h.264, because the computers will be much faster. when i started editing video in 1993, it was with the mjpeg codec, on a //fast video machine... shoot in high-8, and capture to scsi drives in a raid system. when mini-dv camcorders came out, the computers of the day were too slow to play back mini-dv footage that had been captured to the hard drive, so we had to use special video player software, or else watch the video playback on the editing timeline only. rather similar to where things are with avchd/h.264 these days.

09-26-2009, 03:44 PM	#45
richtrav Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Texas Posts: 82	Hmm, maybe we need to get some GH1 owners involved in this conversation, to enlighten us as to the obvious superiority of their AVCHD videos in 1080 mode (hint: you won't find many). We poor Pentax users are stuck with our clean mudless videos that "suck" because they take up too much space I think you'd have better luck over at the Nikon forums convincing people that motion jpeg is bad. Their videos have a heavier compression so you'd probably have a more receptive audience there