[kalpaha]

Hi

I have to admit that since our baby was born in July, I've had quite little time for the forums, but the topic of using K7 as a basic camcorder seems not to be discussed very often. And videoing the baby is what I'm interested in.

So how good is the K7 for the "video your baby" or "capture the tourist attraction" kind of shooting one would use a consumer camcorder for. Is anyone using it for such purposes?

I'm interested because I have a very good HV30 HDV camcorder which I know beats the K7 in every video feature except for wide angle opportunity and DOF control. The problem is that I'm always shooting with my K10D and rarely bring out the HV30, so we're not using it to anywhere near it's potential. And for capturing precious baby moments like laughs, smiles and babbling and gurgling video is often better medium than a photograph.

I've been toying with the idea of selling the HV30, which could probably fetch about what I paid for it and buying a K7 instead, but I'd do it only for the video feature.

If I can capture clean basic video and focus without too much trouble, then I might go for the K7 just because I know I'd probably get more video with it than I currently do. It doesn't have to be perfect (I know I'd love it for the shallow DOF artsy videos :-), but it would have to work as a basic camcorder. Can it do that? Is it very hard to do a slow zoom out and keep the focus anywhere near the target?

Be brutally honest, if you think K-7 is not up to the task, then I'd better learn to love my current camcorder :-)

Kalle

[jogiba]

I used my Canon TX1 to shoot home 720p HD videos of the kids but now I use my K-7 with 10-24mm Tamron zoom to shoot home videos of the kids since there is not much need to focus with it with it's deep DOF. I like the fact that I could shoot an indoor flash shot @24mm and then HD video indoors @10mm with one camera. I also use my 18-55mm alot with the kids.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYxOWn2mSjo[/yt]

[kalpaha]

You have a good point about the large DOF of a wide angle (although I don't currently have anything wider than 18mm, that should do). And if the K-7 actually subsamples the video, then it will have more DOF than a single photo frame would, right? Plus, 1/30 shutter speed should let me close the aperture somewhat, even indoors.

It seems that if you're a capable photographer or a videographer, then you can pull off some amazing footage with a DSLR and video, as evidenced by these links I ran into in "the other forum":




While one would have to be a darn good videographer to shoot that kind of footage, I'd like to think I can manage well enough with the manual focusing, if need be. So I guess I'm sold on the idea of trying to sell off the HV30 and buy a K-7 instead.

Kalle

[osv]

none of the current crop of dslr cameras are capable of replacing a camcorder; the panasonic unit might come the closest, because it has full-time autofocus.

very few consumer/prosumer hd video recording devices on the market today have enough resolution in the lcd/viewfinder to set critical focus, so manual focusing is problematic at best, and typically just guesswork... some prosumer units have zoom functions in the lcd that help with manual focusing, but i don't think you'll find that on a dslr?

the hv30 has a solid fanbase, but it's old tape-based mpeg2 technology, so i'd say that if you can sell it for anywhere near what you paid for it, jump on the opportunity before it goes away.

since there isn't much zooming involved with shooting a baby, and it's usually indoors, i'd think that the k-7 would be great... you were thinking pentax because you already have pentax glass, right?

[jogiba]

A consumer camcorder is equal to a point & shoot camera and a DSLR for video is more like a pro camcorder . In fact I have not seen a HD consumer camcorder that has a 10x wide angle zoom like some P&S cameras such as the Casio Exilim EX-H10 that has a 10X optical zoom that starts at an extremely wide 24mm equivalent and shoots 720p HD video or 12.1mp stills.

I still use my Canon TX1 when all I want to carry is a pocket size camera that also shoots HD video.

[osv]

A consumer camcorder is equal to a point & shoot camera and a DSLR for video is more like a pro camcorder.

that statement is complete rubbish.

In fact I have not seen a HD consumer camcorder that has a 10x wide angle zoom like some P&S cameras such as the Casio Exilim EX-H10 that has a 10X optical zoom that starts at an extremely wide 24mm equivalent and shoots 720p HD video or 12.1mp stills.

I still use my Canon TX1 when all I want to carry is a pocket size camera that also shoots HD video.

did you read the product description that you posted? what part of "1280 x 720" did you not understand? just about all consumer camcorders these days shoot full 1080 hd, NOT 720p.

modern hd camcorders also record at far higher resolution than any cheap point and shoot junk is capable of doing.

[jogiba]

that statement is complete rubbish.




did you read the product description that you posted? what part of "1280 x 720" did you not understand? just about all consumer camcorders these days shoot full 1080 hd, NOT 720p.

modern hd camcorders also record at far higher resolution than any cheap point and shoot junk is capable of doing.

The Canon Powershot SX1 IS shoots 1080p with a 20x zoom that starts at 28mm vs the top of the line Canon consumer HD camcorder with a 10x zoom that starts at 43.5mm.
[vimeo]http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3099292[/vimeo]

Consumer HD camcorders are for people that want a video camera for family HD videos and VDSLRs are now used to make commercials and short films. BTW why are YOU here anyway talking up your toy camcorders with no wide angle zoom lenses?

[osv]

The Canon Powershot SX1 IS shoots 1080p with a 20x zoom that starts at 28mm

yeah, it has a 20x zoom that can't be zoomed while you are shooting video.

do you understand the concept of a motorized zoom? do you know what a crawl shot is? because it's nearly impossible to pull off with the sx1.

here is a website where you can learn the basics of videography:
Learn Videography, Video Editing and Lighting

[richtrav]

Ooh, I dunno, judging by that video either the guy who took those shots with the SX1 can fly or that camera really can zoom while shooting.

Anyone who can't see the humongous potential of affordably bringing interchangeable 35mm lenses to video, with their huge range of focal lengths and shallow depth of field, needs to have their head examined. It is for this reason that people are using DSLRs for professional work, not because current camcorders don't have the quality.

And anyone who has vision close to 20/20 can see that the "1920" or "1280" resolutions advertised by video cameras don't come anywhere remotely close to those numbers. When I can take a still shot off the video and have it look comparable to what a still image from a DSLR downsampled to 1920x1080 would look like then I'll be impressed.

Look, most of us don't give a rat's rear about codecs or crawl shots or any of that junk - we're not in a studio doing a soap opera and are not in the least bit impressed with technical mumbo jumbo or fancy acronyms being tossed about - we're just out in the field or at home wanting to capture the moment. You know, something kinda like photography. Traditionally this has been restricted to still shots, but now it's becoming apparent that you can also easily grab some video (and timelapse if you have a few minutes) while you're out there - all with one camera.

In a few years hopefully the quality will be up there close to stills level. I sincerely hope that's where Pentax is putting their research effort instead of only trying to figure out how they can cram a camcorder - with all their cruddy lack of detail - into a DSLR. And whether the output is motion jpeg or h264 or abcfg we won't care - just as long as it's good!!!!

[jogiba]

yeah, it has a 20x zoom that can't be zoomed while you are shooting video.

do you understand the concept of a motorized zoom? do you know what a crawl shot is? because it's nearly impossible to pull off with the sx1.

here is a website where you can learn the basics of videography:
Learn Videography, Video Editing and Lighting

I think you need some rest. Tell me YOU looked at that video and did not see the 20x zoom while making that 1080p video.

[osv]

looks like you guys are right, that camera does have a two-speed motorized zoom, with continuous autofocus... good idea for a consumer product, too bad it had to come from canon and panasonic.

since the o.p. asked about pentax, where is the k-7 video of that same kind of a zoom shot?

[osv]

And anyone who has vision close to 20/20 can see that the "1920" or "1280" resolutions advertised by video cameras don't come anywhere remotely close to those numbers. When I can take a still shot off the video and have it look comparable to what a still image from a DSLR downsampled to 1920x1080 would look like then I'll be impressed.

In a few years hopefully the quality will be up there close to stills level. I sincerely hope that's where Pentax is putting their research effort instead of only trying to figure out how they can cram a camcorder - with all their cruddy lack of detail - into a DSLR. And whether the output is motion jpeg or h264 or abcfg we won't care - just as long as it's good!!!!

"a camcorder - with all their cruddy lack of detail"?? lets put that garbage to rest once and for all.

video is not measured in the same manner as stills, because the subject matter is moving, and when you are shooting interlaced video, it becomes even more problematic.

in the testing below, you'll see that a canon consumer video camcorder(hf s100) that retails for maybe $850 captures more detail than the 5d mkII:

"The 5D Mark II captured decently sharp video. In our testing, the camera measured 700 line widths per picture height (lw/ph) horizontal and 650 lw/ph vertical. This is very close to the results we measured on both the Canon T1i and Panasonic GH1. The Canon HF S100 had the best sharpness of this bunch, coming in with 800 lw/ph horizontal and 650 lw/ph vertical. When testing the vertical sharpness on the 5D Mark II we noticed its image had similar aliasing and blur to the Canon HF S100. All this data is taken from testing the cameras and camcorder in their Full HD (1920 x 1080) modes." Canon EOS 5D Mark II Digital Camera Review - Canon DSLR - Digital Camera Reviews, Ratings of Digital Cameras & Comparisons of Popular Cameras - DigitalCameraInfo.com

[StarDust]

My two ören (swedish equivalent of cents or pennies or whatever) is that DSLR's will revolutionize the film market as well, but we will see low rate filming for a while until we reach a good camcorder/DSLR. Motorized zoomlenses might be a good thing for example. I mean, who would not want interchangable lenses on their camcorder???

[jogiba]

Pentax had power zoom lenses back in the 90's like the 28-105 , 100-300mm and 80-200mm F2.8.

[falconeye]

Pentax had power zoom lenses back in the 90's like the 28-105 , 100-300mm and 80-200mm F2.8.

Yes, I recently purchased a 28-105 powerzoom for K-7 video and it not only works like a champ (variable motor speed), it moreover seems to be a parfocal zoom so that the image stays in focus when zooming.