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09-12-2015, 03:33 PM   #1
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The picture vs. movie compromise

Hey all,

A school that I take photos for is interested in purchasing a DSLR for student activities.

I would love to get a K-50 with a 18-135 for this purpose. However, the problem is that the camera will be used 50/50 for both cinematography and photography, perhaps even more leaning the video side, making short films, not long extended recordings.
The other option, because we have to keep our prices down, would be a used Canon T3i, and a Canon 28-105 USM 3.5-4.5 lens used. I know the video quality would be a lot better... but i'm still torn.

What would you choose for this situation, where video is an equal priority to photography?

09-12-2015, 03:35 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
Hey all,

A school that I take photos for is interested in purchasing a DSLR for student activities.

I would love to get a K-50 with a 18-135 for this purpose. However, the problem is that the camera will be used 50/50 for both cinematography and photography, perhaps even more leaning the video side, making short films, not long extended recordings.
The other option, because we have to keep our prices down, would be a used Canon T3i, and a Canon 28-105 USM 3.5-4.5 lens used. I know the video quality would be a lot better... but i'm still torn.

What would you choose for this situation, where video is an equal priority to photography?
I'd go for the Canon, making sure I had a stabilized lens.

Adam
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09-12-2015, 05:03 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I'd go for the Canon, making sure I had a stabilized lens.
Ok, thanks. Problem is that Canon stabilized lenses become a lot more expensive, so we'll have to go with non-stablized.
09-12-2015, 06:22 PM   #4
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Imp,
This is a discussion with the potential for hundreds of varying opinions. My recommendation, based on experience & training in both, is two cameras: a new DSLR (for the warranty) with a used lens & a $200 - $300 handheld video camera (maybe even nearly new used). The K50 (or a similar entry level camera) would be a good choice because of the in-camera stabilization . To properly learn still photography, one should be able to frame the image clearly as in a view finder. The video camera (Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Canon) should be easy to use hand-held and tripod mounted. Look for good basic features such as video modes, glass lens, SD cards, separate mic input, continuous autofocus & exposure, good LCD visibility. Don't get carried away with excessive zoom ranges - that just gives the students a better way to induce motion sickness in the viewers. Invest in a sturdy tripod. Don't get obsessed with HD modes - they require more computer power & newer editing programs (with steeper learning curves). Standard def shows fine on even HD monitors & TVs. Also keep in mind that smart phones & tablets can substitute for the video camera - shaky, blurry, poorly exposed, poorly framed, etc but mucho cheapo. Remember that dropping your only camera puts everyone out of business. Good Luck.

09-12-2015, 07:43 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoneV Quote
Imp,
This is a discussion with the potential for hundreds of varying opinions. My recommendation, based on experience & training in both, is two cameras: a new DSLR (for the warranty) with a used lens & a $200 - $300 handheld video camera (maybe even nearly new used). The K50 (or a similar entry level camera) would be a good choice because of the in-camera stabilization . To properly learn still photography, one should be able to frame the image clearly as in a view finder. The video camera (Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Canon) should be easy to use hand-held and tripod mounted. Look for good basic features such as video modes, glass lens, SD cards, separate mic input, continuous autofocus & exposure, good LCD visibility. Don't get carried away with excessive zoom ranges - that just gives the students a better way to induce motion sickness in the viewers. Invest in a sturdy tripod. Don't get obsessed with HD modes - they require more computer power & newer editing programs (with steeper learning curves). Standard def shows fine on even HD monitors & TVs. Also keep in mind that smart phones & tablets can substitute for the video camera - shaky, blurry, poorly exposed, poorly framed, etc but mucho cheapo. Remember that dropping your only camera puts everyone out of business. Good Luck.
That is my personal view, to have two separate cameras, and I do. The problem is, for us, we can't afford that.
I've also used the basic canon vixia model, it is too soft with ca and automatic iso, blah blah blah. It seems with camcorders you have to pay up a bit to get decent image quality.

Thanks for your advice!
09-12-2015, 10:10 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
The other option, because we have to keep our prices down, would be a used Canon T3i, and a Canon 28-105 USM 3.5-4.5 lens used. I know the video quality would be a lot better...
Aside from being able to use magiclantern, I don't see that the T3i would be 'a lot better' better for video than the K-50.
The K-50 has no sensorshift SR in video mode, the software stabilization is only good for reducing hand-shake, not for moving around. So a stabilized lens would still be best.
The only real advantage to the T3i is the vari-angle screen which would be useful in video mode, but it doesn't have focus peaking where the K-50 does.
If you have a field monitor, the T3i does have live HDMI out - but I doubt your budget will reach to this as well?

Canon T3i vs Pentax K-50

K-50 with software SR on

T3i sample

Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 09-13-2015 at 01:25 PM.
09-12-2015, 10:23 PM   #7
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Sony nex? Many cheap options on eBay.

09-12-2015, 10:39 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoneV Quote
Imp,
This is a discussion with the potential for hundreds of varying opinions.
Especially when range of budget was not mentioned
09-13-2015, 04:40 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lakai Quote
Especially when range of budget was not mentioned
About $500
09-13-2015, 10:28 AM   #10
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Buy a nex 5 or two used and a couple of nice Takumars and adapters. You'll have good video and reasonable stills and cheap adapters can add students parents old film lenses to the mix if they want.
09-13-2015, 02:08 PM   #11
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As Steve says, only the magic lantern 3rd party firmware offers Canon anything dramatically better in terms of video. They're both in the same ball park really, and as bad a Pentax is at video, it's all pretty similar at that age/level.


Video camera alternatives in that price range, such as Handicams, don't offer a lot of actual cinematography features. Continuous autofocus is nice, but it's prone to hunting if poorly implemented. There are basically no depth of field options, as typically everything is in focus. In short they are great for holidays, but aren't that stunning if you're trying to teach basics such as shot design, stabilised or fixed mounted cameras, lighting, sound, composition etc.


Fundamentally where Pentax falls down is in it's lack of aids to the user during video capture. There is no mechanical stabilisation, no 'zebras' to warn for over exposure, no focus peaking during recording etc. Pentax is pretty well equipped with frame rates and full manual control if needs be. Given there is not much wiggle room to adjust the image in post afterwards, getting the correct exposure is critical.


Pentax for photography is significantly better than the canon equivalent in my experience. The K-mount does offer heaps of cheap manual focus lenses, and the digital zoom and focus peaking works really well for tripod based narrow depth of field shots etc.


The flip side is that Pentax is not as common as Canikon, so students are far more likely to use Canikon in the big wide world afterwards. The use of say a Sony NEX system camera could allow for wifi to tablets or cellphones, to view the affect of depth of field aperture changes in real time etc, which may be useful for teaching. Alternatively using the HDMI out to a projector or large TV could be done on a Pentax. Teaching wise there are lots of options.


For the budget, I don't think anything in the region is going to be dramatically better or worse than anything else. Perhaps better at one or the other, stills or video, but not overall at both. Pick something, relax and teach
09-13-2015, 10:57 PM   #12
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I ll buy a new ks2 body and a manual lens and live with whatever shortcommings the system has
09-14-2015, 04:12 AM   #13
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Find a second hand GH2 perhaps? GH3?

A used K-5 II would do great for actual video quality under certain conditions. Yes, it is a bit soft, yes, there is some moire, but for handheld shooting it is great, and the look of the image is actually quite nice. It also handles complex scenes really well. What it doesn't do well is low light (especially when the sensor is warm), and forget about manual exposure controls (you can still select aperture and lock it all...). For stills it is a great camera, so you've got that side covered well. Apart from AF. I would skip newer Pentaxes as they have no shake reduction, and lenses with SR for Pentax are very, very rare, whereas with Canon and Nikon even many cheap lenses come with SR.

New Nikons are worth considering. They have better encoders than Pentax, and overall good image quality. D5300 comes to mind for example. They are also not as terrible feeling as cheap Canons, and not as limited because according to Canon you should regularly buy a new model once you grown a bit.

Samsung NX500? Yes, over budget, and yes, not the greatest shape for stills, but for video it's great.

Sony a7000 etc.? It's also not such a great choice for stills, IMHO, like the NEX cameras. I'd rather have DSLR ergonomics for stills.

The problem is that most good options, like the Olympus OM-D EM-5 II or Samsung NX1 are simply too expensive for the moment.

I think in the end my choice would be the D5300, because it is a decent camera and a decent video camera. Pentax could easily be better, but they chose not to, so the only option is the K-5, and while that camera gets a lot right in terms of video, it is based on an old sensor and the belief that people don't shoot video professionally...
09-17-2015, 04:59 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I'd go for the Canon, making sure I had a stabilized lens.
I'd go for the Canon, too. Canons are by far the most used DSLR for video. Since this is a school, why not break them into the system they're most likely to encounter?
09-17-2015, 06:06 PM   #15
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Thanks everyone for your input! I decided not to go for Sony, because no viewfinder, and no Panasonic because i don't really know much about them. I was briefly considering the Pentax K-s2 with a 18-135, because the canon lens we can afford (28-135) has such bad distortion and CA...

I've decided to get the t3i, and the Sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4. This is about $650, not too much above our budget. Again, thanks everyone for your input!
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