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11-22-2015, 09:49 PM   #1
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Matching Pentax lenses

When I buy lenses for photography, I often like them to be very different in the way they render and the colours they emphasise. For instance, I like taking casual portrait style photos with my fa50 1.4, d-fa 100mm, and Tamron 17-50. I get very different images with each, but what a mess for video...

I've been surfing around trying to find what lenses appear to match well with each other in terms of colour consistency and the way they render. Unfortunately, our lens database doesn't shoot a colour chart to help show colour shifts between lenses or take a standard repeatable image at certain f-stops across lenses which would be handy. I enjoyed Shane Hurlbut's testing of lenses on the Gh4 because I could easily see the differences across the lenses and what would look cinematic.

Any thoughts on well-matches lenses? When I blindly surfed Flickr for Pentax photos, I often could match the following.

-The easiest by far was the no-brainer combo of fa31 and fa77 in colour and rendering. The fa43 was close.
-Maybe, I'm wrong but I also found the fa28 and fa50 1.4 colours similar.
-I didn't see enough of the d-fa 50 to say how well it works with the d-fa100. I wonder if the 35mm could be matched easily. I don't think its colours are quite the same though.
-I know a lot of people grab the takumars for video for a less contrasted image.

Any thoughts on other well-matched lens combos or which other lenses match with those above? Unfortunately, I don't own them to do a test.... I know post-processing may have impacted what I was seeing, but sort of like the Cooke look, some things just seem more alike than others.

11-22-2015, 09:56 PM   #2
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Maybe the 40/70 - But I'm not sure. Part of the issue is that I have the SMC 40 Limited and the HD 70 Limited.
11-22-2015, 10:02 PM   #3
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Three expensive, manual-focus lenses that I own that all render color and micro-contrast similarly are the following wide angle Zeiss ZK lenses: 25mm f/2.8, 28mm f/2, 35mm f/2

While each one indeed has it's own character and strengths/weaknesses, I would think if you exhibited prints from all 3 of them in the same gallery that viewers would recognize a coherent look that they all have.

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 11-22-2015 at 10:07 PM.
11-22-2015, 10:12 PM   #4
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My SMC DA21 & DA70 produce similar colors, contrast and tone. At least that's how it feels. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find something colorful-ish to snap and see if it's true.

11-22-2015, 10:34 PM   #5
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In my case the FA 31 Ltd, FA 43 and DA 70 Ltd give very similar and pleasant colors.
11-22-2015, 11:23 PM   #6
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That's interesting. I almost wrote the da21 and da70 for colours. I also thought that some of the 20-40 ltd range was consistent. I think I was looking at shots between 30-40mm where it seemed most similar to the 21 and 70.

I will definitely look up images of the Zeiss Zk. Have you tried a 50 because the three you mention are pretty close? 25, 35, and 50 would be handy. I've seen the Jena and they certainly seemed to be similar in contrast from what I recall. I must admit that I like some of the older Zeiss lenses. I'm betting they are good for manual focusing compared to Autofocus lenses. Do they have a similar manual focusing throw as the fa limiteds?
11-23-2015, 12:38 AM   #7
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Try the Contax Zeiss line - 18, 25,, 28, 35, 50, 85, 100, 135, 180 and 200mm. Their natural mount is the C/Y, however they can easily be remounted to the K (the MM version of the C/Y mount - with the f22 in green). They are used extensively by Canon and Red for video. You can easily rent them in LA for video.

The ZK's are the newer version of them - which sell for a lot more.For any repair on the lenses - you can't beat them.





Last edited by interested_observer; 11-23-2015 at 12:55 AM.
11-23-2015, 06:41 AM   #8
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I wonder if using film-era lenses might help? Color consistency used to be a bigger deal back then.
11-23-2015, 06:46 PM   #9
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Thanks for the links on the Contax lenses. Definitely, taking a closer look. I liked the article part 1 and part 2 on 'Why Contax.' I don't know if he wrote part 3 or not. I like how he thinks.

I also liked this article on the Pentax 43mm and 77mm design too.
http://www.northcoastphotographer.net/resources/Files/Pentax_Limiteds_Explained.pdf
12-01-2015, 02:58 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
I wonder if using film-era lenses might help? Color consistency used to be a bigger deal back then.
Oh, yes, indeedy,...
I've put a set of SMC primes together, K, M and A series, and the colour consistency is easily as good as many modern lens sets, with the advantages of long focus throws and small physical size, along with what IMHO is more then enough detail reproduction for HD and 4K production.

This set has been used in front of Pentax cameras, BMD Pocket and 2.5K cinema cameras, Panasonic GH-4, Sony A7s and Aja Cion cameras, the latter pair being at both HD and at 4K.

The only disadvantages I've found, are in the focus breathing, which is a little excessive compared to pure cinema lenses, but similar to current Samyang ( branded as Rokinon in the US) 'cine primes', and a lack of support from companies like Metabones for Focal Reducer adapters.

Here's the ungraded teaser trailer for a short film shot using the SMC-A 35mm f2 ( https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-A-35mm-F2-Lens.html )




And there's this goof off camera-test video,....


Both of these were shot using the Aja Cion camera, with only available lighting, the latter with no lighting modification at all.
Both shot at EI 320 (not ISO,..)
The first of those two used the camera's 'Expanded1' Gamma mode, and 'Unity' White Balance, the second using 'Normal' and 5600K white Balance.
Unity gives an unmodified output from the sensor with no colour modification, harder to work with in post, but giving better dynamic range.
The opening shot of the second video used a 400mm 'Formula 5' lens on a 2x teleconvertor, everything else, the 35mm.

Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 12-01-2015 at 03:17 AM.
12-01-2015, 11:10 AM   #11
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Not being a videographer I have no understanding of how EI 320 differs from ISO 320 - in film it meant to shoot the film at a different exposure than the film's ISO rating - so for example I might have shot Kodachrome ISO 64 at EI 80. Is this the same thing? Is it the same as say setting the ISO to 100 and shooting it at -1 and 2/3 stops Exposure compensation? or shooting at ISO 400 with a +1/3 stop compensation?
12-01-2015, 07:20 PM   #12
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Hi Uncle Vanya. This might help to explain EI vs ISO. I'm only quasi-fluent. Lol....

Sense And Sensitivity

Pidicus, are there any particular k, m, and a glass that match better than others? Or are you saying k match other k glass, m with m, a with a. I know there was a thread somewhere on the site that seemed to show k glass picking up a lot more blue from what I recall. If you have mixed and matched, any recommendations for best options?

Cheers.
12-02-2015, 12:56 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by EricG Quote
are there any particular k, m, and a glass that match better than others? Or are you saying k match other k glass, m with m, a with a. I know there was a thread somewhere on the site that seemed to show k glass picking up a lot more blue from what I recall. If you have mixed and matched, any recommendations for best options?
All of mine are 'SMC' lenses, and it's the coatings that make them match colour transmission, possibly even more so then the glass itself.
K & M aren't really all that different from each other mechanically, and the A's just got the iris control electronics.

For me, the differences between these lenses and modern lenses is what I'm using to differentiate my work from the cinematographers I work with,... The indie and pro film community in Melbourne is pretty small on the smart side of the lens, so most of us do double duty as Gaffer, Grip, or AC for others, as they do for us.
Having my work stand out from the greater numbers of cinematographers who shoot on Canon or Red, using Zeiss CP2's, is part of my business plan to increase my bookings.
The SMC lenses have a different 'look' to modern lenses, while still meeting the quality standards required on good productions.

All that said, when it comes time to buy 'new' glass, Samyang's Cine range, and the new Xeen range, has to be top of the list for value vs performance.

Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 12-02-2015 at 03:39 AM.
12-02-2015, 07:11 AM   #14
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I hate to burst your bubble but SMC changed a lot over the years. It isn't a single color cohesive coating style. Also others have shown more significant differences in rendering between k,m, and a series than you seem to see.

It is possible you are just lucky and have the right lenses across those lines to get what you want.
12-07-2015, 07:05 AM   #15
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I'd love to know more - everything I've been able to find suggests that the coatings were a consistent chemical mix and application method.
I've looked very closely at what I need to do with a YUV Curves tool to colour grade the footage I shoot, and I've had no problems copy n pasting the curves between lenses.
All of mine are very similar ages tho'..
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