What do you guys do for video?

richandfleur · 01-07-2017, 04:34 PM - **1 Like**

Let's be clear though, Pentax have done close to nothing to their video spec since the k-30/k-01 in 2012?

Their focus peaking and mechanical stabilisation don't work during video capture. Their quality/bitrate is pathetic in 2017. They crop even if you have stabilisation turned off.

What should be a Pentax strength (sensor stabilisation during video) is now offered by many other companies. Olympus and even Fuji have upped their video game.

Polishing what they have already would be a good start, but they're generations behind now, and will be out of date by the time they start to catch up.

Pentax is so far behind how they are not even on the race. This can't continue.

Imp · 01-07-2017, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by richandfleur

Let's be clear though, Pentax have done close to nothing to their video spec since the k-30/k-01 in 2012?

Their focus peaking and mechanical stabilisation don't work during video capture. Their quality/bitrate is pathetic in 2017. They crop even if you have stabilisation turned off.

What should be a Pentax strength (sensor stabilisation during video) is now offered by many other companies. Olympus and even Fuji have upped their video game.

Polishing what they have already would be a good start, but they're generations behind now, and will be out of date by the time they start to catch up.

Pentax is so far behind how they are not even on the race. This can't continue.

It actually matters. Really, it does.

Speaking for myself, I'm going to stick with my k-30 until Pentax has good 1080p. If they don't, I'll upgrade eventually, but spend some money in another brand too... is that what they want?

richandfleur · 01-07-2017, 06:46 PM

I'm in the same boat. The K-70 looks like a solid improvement on the k-30/50 but it doesn't do anything to video, except for offering mediocre autofocus for a select few lenses.

I'm happy to forgo autofocus initially in the development order, in favour of polishing a solid 1080p video offering at 24fps.

I too won't upgrade until they offer something more suitable to my needs. If left too long (especially after the k-30 aperture motor debacle) then I too may walk. I don't want to, but these guys are stubbornly not budging and still believe their 2012 video offering is sufficient in today's market.

surfar · 01-08-2017, 04:09 AM

When its
April its time!...$2000 time

Imp · 01-08-2017, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by surfar

When its April its time!...$2000 time

Oof!

But considering the price of the K-1... I doubt it?

PiDicus Rex · 01-08-2017, 08:50 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by lithedreamer

I really wish I could record 4K without starting over completely in regards to lens systems. So, what do you use to record?

I've used my Pentax lenses in front of other cameras with no problems.
Well, one,... The cameras owners not wanting to let me take my lenses home,...

Good examples of the Film Era glass are fine at 4K - I've used mine in front of the Cion, A7s and GH4 with results I was more then happy with.
Quality wise, they're easily on par with the Nikon classic lenses the Red fan boys seem to adore.

Originally posted by Bob from Aus

Watching other setups where people use a dslr with a dozen accessories to video so you don't even know where the camera is - isn't for me.

It's actually pretty common to rig stuff all over cameras for 'serious' productions.
Even shooting 'on film' we have focus assist monitors and video village feeds and microphone mounts and external batteries,...

Sure, and ENG camera, and even most 'pro' camcorders (FS5, FS7 from Sony, Aja Cion, C100, C300 from Canon) have decent audio recording, but it's still more common to have the audio recorded separately, and a Shogun or Pix external recorder backing up the on-board recording.

Originally posted by TaoMaas

I use a K-01, too. I mostly use it for static shots, but I have no qualms about mixing it in with video shot on our full-size Panasonic camcorders.

Don't be afraid to move the K-01 - the Rolling Shutter Skew doesn't affect shots anywhere near as much as it does on BMD or Sony cameras. I have to pan my K-01 about twice as fast to match the warping on a BMDCC or BMDPC.
The GH4 is nearly as good as Pentax in that regard.

Originally posted by richandfleur

Soon I expect we'll see 4.7K as well, for all the same reasons, just not from Pentax...

4.6k - BMD's Ursa & Ursa mini, in their Rolling Shutter versions, and the new Canon C700.
(The C700GS and Global Shutter versions of the BMD cameras are all 4k, with BMD and Aja using the same sensor, but it's mounted the other way up in the Cion.)

Originally posted by btnapa

Somehow I cannot bring myself to part with my K1 and all the great Pentax glass. Believe me, I want to go to ONE system that would do both video and stills. It seems like the dedicated/hybrid route may be the way to go. Dedicated K1 for stills and some other system for video that allows the use of Pentax glass, most likely any of the mirrorless offerings.

Do you need 4K?
If not, the Sony VG-30 and VG-900 are pretty damn good value, the 900 being FF and the 30 being s35.

A mechanical adapter will put K-mount lenses in front of the E-mount, and Mitakon Lens Turbos are available for K-mount lenses - Metabones STILL doesn't support K-mount, even though they support CY lenses with the very same FFD.

Originally posted by Digitalis

Use a RED camera..simple. DSLRS aren't good enough for video,there are too many compromises involved.

Oh, now this is gonna start a flame-war

( Reds Suck !!

)

Cost to Buy, to shoot professional vision using Red vs a good DSLR, say a 1DX, And the Red's loose out against pretty much every camera out there that does 4K.
At 6K, the KineMAX is much more cost effective.

As for 'good enough',.. go to https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-camera and look at some of the titles that have been shot on just one DSLR.

Steve.Ledger · 01-08-2017, 03:06 PM

Blimey, they used an Olympus EP5 with Fury Road!
ShotOnWhat? » Olympus E-P5 Camera
Love to know which scene/s

Not a single Pentax camera in the 'Cameras' listing

Cameras » ShotOnWhat?

richandfleur · 01-08-2017, 03:36 PM - **1 Like**

Pentax's focus seems to be on the lack of autofocus as the major negative, but I'd argue it's their craptastic 'Movie SR' that's butchering the footage the most.
Fix that (as in dump movie SR, or leave it as an option that we can turn off) by returning mechanical stabilisation (or once again, offer it as an option with a potential noise disclaimer warning), enable focus peaking DURING recording, up the bit rates considerably (to stop favouring smaller file sizes, memory is cheap these days), provide a clean HDMI out option, ensure their are visual audio levels (so we can accurately set the level instead of just picking a setting and hoping) and we'll be a lot better off fairly quickly.

Only then worry about 4K and autofocus. Moving the current core base forward isn't going to work, as we'll just get more higher resolution Movie SR jello wobble and AF hunting blur that way.

Imp · 01-08-2017, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by richandfleur

enable focus peaking DURING recording, up the bit rates considerably (to stop favouring smaller file sizes, memory is cheap these days), provide a clean HDMI out option, ensure their are visual audio levels

Originally posted by richandfleur

Only then worry about 4K and autofocus

Yes. Yes Yes yes Yes!

I'd say the Movie SR isn't the main thing that is butchering it, but that said I don't use it... of course, proper physical SR would be preferred!

surfar · 01-08-2017, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Imp

But considering the price of the K-1... I doubt it?

What do you doubt?

The Pano GH5 is available in April and its $1999....which i'll probably buy from my B&M store where I got the K1.

PiDicus Rex · 01-09-2017, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by richandfleur

Pentax's focus seems to be,.....etc etc..., and we'll be a lot better off fairly quickly.

These are the points we keep making, if only they'd listen. (sighs,.....)

Originally posted by richandfleur

Only then worry about 4K and autofocus.

Funny thing, in the Pro circles, there's a whole thing, about how hard it is to hit critical focus in 4K for 1AC's and Focus Pull techs.
Too many films and shows now include shots where focus is missed, from Directors that don't care enough.

btnapa · 01-09-2017, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by richandfleur

I'm in the same boat. The K-70 looks like a solid improvement on the k-30/50 but it doesn't do anything to video, except for offering mediocre autofocus for a select few lenses.

I'm happy to forgo autofocus initially in the development order, in favour of polishing a solid 1080p video offering at 24fps.

I too won't upgrade until they offer something more suitable to my needs. If left too long (especially after the k-30 aperture motor debacle) then I too may walk. I don't want to, but these guys are stubbornly not budging and still believe their 2012 video offering is sufficient in today's market.

I totally agree with you. It almost seems like, they are doing their best to kill the brand. If the diehard Pentaxians walk away, then they are doomed. You know how hard it is to acquire a new user. Hanging on to the current base would be priority #1. These guys are TOTALLY sleep behind the wheel.

I went by the Sony booth at CES to check out a few lenses for a friend who could not make it to the show. I got to try the A6500 with a 16-70 f4 Sony/Zeiss lens. I tried to miss focus on the camera but no matter what I tried, I failed. I blasted a series of 11FPS shots and everyone of them was in perfect focus. Don't get me started, we don't even have a decent focus on the Pentax bodies. I have struggled with my K5IIs, K3 and now K1. Video is not the only issue. Believe me.

richandfleur · 01-09-2017, 11:04 AM

Speaking of which, did you see the awesome Pentax/Ricoh unveiling at CES 2017?

Ricoh released a version of their Theta 360 deg video unit, with a power plug, so it can stream for a longer time than just on batteries.

Pentax? Nothing.

btnapa · 01-09-2017, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by richandfleur

Speaking of which, did you see the awesome Pentax/Ricoh unveiling at CES 2017?

Ricoh released a version of their Theta 360 deg video unit, with a power plug, so it can stream for a longer time than just on batteries.

Pentax? Nothing.

Yeh, I almost had a heart attack from all the excitement!!

I did not get a good feeling. The Japanese execs were their usual selves, self congratulating themselves for the "breakthrough" tech they are introducing to the world. And the US based employees, looked like they were afraid of smiling. I thought Jim Malcolm's arrival a few years ago changed the culture for the better. But it felt like it was back to business as usual. To be fair, Canon was not doing any better. In the past, their camera counters had two sometimes three deep the people who wanted to get close to check out a product. This year, at least for a the few hours that I was there, it looked like a ghost town. There were 8-10 employees behind one counter, ready to show you their hardware and there was hardly anyone walking up to them. Sign of things to come? Who knows.

If these are clues to what is to come for Ricoh/Pentax, we better buckle up and get ready. It is going to be a rough ride. I hope I am wrong.

PiDicus Rex · 01-14-2017, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by btnapa

I went by the Sony booth at CES to check out a few lenses for a friend who could not make it to the show. I got to try the A6500,.....

I've been looking at the a6000, a6300, and now a6500,... and if Sony got their own cameras to read out the sensors faster, reducing rolling shutter, they would be a serious option for guys like me.
They look to be a really good camera for the price.

I remember going to a local film & photo industry even here in Melbourne, when my K-01 was less then a year old, and trying some of the current primes with AF, at which point I couldn't understand why people complain about the AF speed.
One thing we all forget about those shows, there are several truckloads of lighting set up. They're almost 'ideal' conditions for showing off new equipment.
Out in the real world, the AF that was fantastic under all that lighting, was 'only' normal, using the same lenses borrowed from a fellow Pentax shooter.

Continuous AF in Video is something nearly all DSLR/MILC manufacturers have struggled to get right, in that regard, Sony is well ahead of the curve.

01-08-2017, 08:50 AM - 2 Likes	#36
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by lithedreamer I really wish I could record 4K without starting over completely in regards to lens systems. So, what do you use to record? I've used my Pentax lenses in front of other cameras with no problems. Well, one,... The cameras owners not wanting to let me take my lenses home,... Good examples of the Film Era glass are fine at 4K - I've used mine in front of the Cion, A7s and GH4 with results I was more then happy with. Quality wise, they're easily on par with the Nikon classic lenses the Red fan boys seem to adore. Originally posted by Bob from Aus Watching other setups where people use a dslr with a dozen accessories to video so you don't even know where the camera is - isn't for me. It's actually pretty common to rig stuff all over cameras for 'serious' productions. Even shooting 'on film' we have focus assist monitors and video village feeds and microphone mounts and external batteries,... Sure, and ENG camera, and even most 'pro' camcorders (FS5, FS7 from Sony, Aja Cion, C100, C300 from Canon) have decent audio recording, but it's still more common to have the audio recorded separately, and a Shogun or Pix external recorder backing up the on-board recording. Originally posted by TaoMaas I use a K-01, too. I mostly use it for static shots, but I have no qualms about mixing it in with video shot on our full-size Panasonic camcorders. Don't be afraid to move the K-01 - the Rolling Shutter Skew doesn't affect shots anywhere near as much as it does on BMD or Sony cameras. I have to pan my K-01 about twice as fast to match the warping on a BMDCC or BMDPC. The GH4 is nearly as good as Pentax in that regard. Originally posted by richandfleur Soon I expect we'll see 4.7K as well, for all the same reasons, just not from Pentax... 4.6k - BMD's Ursa & Ursa mini, in their Rolling Shutter versions, and the new Canon C700. (The C700GS and Global Shutter versions of the BMD cameras are all 4k, with BMD and Aja using the same sensor, but it's mounted the other way up in the Cion.) Originally posted by btnapa Somehow I cannot bring myself to part with my K1 and all the great Pentax glass. Believe me, I want to go to ONE system that would do both video and stills. It seems like the dedicated/hybrid route may be the way to go. Dedicated K1 for stills and some other system for video that allows the use of Pentax glass, most likely any of the mirrorless offerings. Do you need 4K? If not, the Sony VG-30 and VG-900 are pretty damn good value, the 900 being FF and the 30 being s35. A mechanical adapter will put K-mount lenses in front of the E-mount, and Mitakon Lens Turbos are available for K-mount lenses - Metabones STILL doesn't support K-mount, even though they support CY lenses with the very same FFD. Originally posted by Digitalis Use a RED camera..simple. DSLRS aren't good enough for video,there are too many compromises involved. Oh, now this is gonna start a flame-war ( Reds Suck !! ) Cost to Buy, to shoot professional vision using Red vs a good DSLR, say a 1DX, And the Red's loose out against pretty much every camera out there that does 4K. At 6K, the KineMAX is much more cost effective. As for 'good enough',.. go to https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-camera and look at some of the titles that have been shot on just one DSLR. Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 01-08-2017 at 09:27 AM.

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01-07-2017, 04:34 PM - 1 Like	#31
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Let's be clear though, Pentax have done close to nothing to their video spec since the k-30/k-01 in 2012? Their focus peaking and mechanical stabilisation don't work during video capture. Their quality/bitrate is pathetic in 2017. They crop even if you have stabilisation turned off. What should be a Pentax strength (sensor stabilisation during video) is now offered by many other companies. Olympus and even Fuji have upped their video game. Polishing what they have already would be a good start, but they're generations behind now, and will be out of date by the time they start to catch up. Pentax is so far behind how they are not even on the race. This can't continue.

01-07-2017, 05:21 PM	#32
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Originally posted by richandfleur Let's be clear though, Pentax have done close to nothing to their video spec since the k-30/k-01 in 2012? Their focus peaking and mechanical stabilisation don't work during video capture. Their quality/bitrate is pathetic in 2017. They crop even if you have stabilisation turned off. What should be a Pentax strength (sensor stabilisation during video) is now offered by many other companies. Olympus and even Fuji have upped their video game. Polishing what they have already would be a good start, but they're generations behind now, and will be out of date by the time they start to catch up. Pentax is so far behind how they are not even on the race. This can't continue. It actually matters. Really, it does. Speaking for myself, I'm going to stick with my k-30 until Pentax has good 1080p. If they don't, I'll upgrade eventually, but spend some money in another brand too... is that what they want?

01-07-2017, 06:46 PM	#33
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	I'm in the same boat. The K-70 looks like a solid improvement on the k-30/50 but it doesn't do anything to video, except for offering mediocre autofocus for a select few lenses. I'm happy to forgo autofocus initially in the development order, in favour of polishing a solid 1080p video offering at 24fps. I too won't upgrade until they offer something more suitable to my needs. If left too long (especially after the k-30 aperture motor debacle) then I too may walk. I don't want to, but these guys are stubbornly not budging and still believe their 2012 video offering is sufficient in today's market.

01-08-2017, 04:09 AM	#34
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	When its April its time!...$2000 time

01-08-2017, 06:29 AM	#35
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Originally posted by surfar When its April its time!...$2000 time Oof! But considering the price of the K-1... I doubt it?

01-08-2017, 03:06 PM	#37
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Blimey, they used an Olympus EP5 with Fury Road! ShotOnWhat? » Olympus E-P5 Camera Love to know which scene/s Not a single Pentax camera in the 'Cameras' listing Cameras » ShotOnWhat?

01-08-2017, 03:36 PM - 1 Like	#38
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Pentax's focus seems to be on the lack of autofocus as the major negative, but I'd argue it's their craptastic 'Movie SR' that's butchering the footage the most. Fix that (as in dump movie SR, or leave it as an option that we can turn off) by returning mechanical stabilisation (or once again, offer it as an option with a potential noise disclaimer warning), enable focus peaking DURING recording, up the bit rates considerably (to stop favouring smaller file sizes, memory is cheap these days), provide a clean HDMI out option, ensure their are visual audio levels (so we can accurately set the level instead of just picking a setting and hoping) and we'll be a lot better off fairly quickly. Only then worry about 4K and autofocus. Moving the current core base forward isn't going to work, as we'll just get more higher resolution Movie SR jello wobble and AF hunting blur that way.

01-08-2017, 03:43 PM	#39
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Originally posted by richandfleur enable focus peaking DURING recording, up the bit rates considerably (to stop favouring smaller file sizes, memory is cheap these days), provide a clean HDMI out option, ensure their are visual audio levels Originally posted by richandfleur Only then worry about 4K and autofocus Yes. Yes Yes yes Yes! I'd say the Movie SR isn't the main thing that is butchering it, but that said I don't use it... of course, proper physical SR would be preferred!

01-08-2017, 04:27 PM	#40
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by Imp But considering the price of the K-1... I doubt it? What do you doubt? The Pano GH5 is available in April and its $1999....which i'll probably buy from my B&M store where I got the K1.

01-09-2017, 01:46 AM	#41
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by richandfleur Pentax's focus seems to be,.....etc etc..., and we'll be a lot better off fairly quickly. These are the points we keep making, if only they'd listen. (sighs,.....) Originally posted by richandfleur Only then worry about 4K and autofocus. Funny thing, in the Pro circles, there's a whole thing, about how hard it is to hit critical focus in 4K for 1AC's and Focus Pull techs. Too many films and shows now include shots where focus is missed, from Directors that don't care enough.

01-09-2017, 08:15 AM	#42
btnapa Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,615	Originally posted by richandfleur I'm in the same boat. The K-70 looks like a solid improvement on the k-30/50 but it doesn't do anything to video, except for offering mediocre autofocus for a select few lenses. I'm happy to forgo autofocus initially in the development order, in favour of polishing a solid 1080p video offering at 24fps. I too won't upgrade until they offer something more suitable to my needs. If left too long (especially after the k-30 aperture motor debacle) then I too may walk. I don't want to, but these guys are stubbornly not budging and still believe their 2012 video offering is sufficient in today's market. I totally agree with you. It almost seems like, they are doing their best to kill the brand. If the diehard Pentaxians walk away, then they are doomed. You know how hard it is to acquire a new user. Hanging on to the current base would be priority #1. These guys are TOTALLY sleep behind the wheel. I went by the Sony booth at CES to check out a few lenses for a friend who could not make it to the show. I got to try the A6500 with a 16-70 f4 Sony/Zeiss lens. I tried to miss focus on the camera but no matter what I tried, I failed. I blasted a series of 11FPS shots and everyone of them was in perfect focus. Don't get me started, we don't even have a decent focus on the Pentax bodies. I have struggled with my K5IIs, K3 and now K1. Video is not the only issue. Believe me.

01-09-2017, 11:04 AM	#43
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Speaking of which, did you see the awesome Pentax/Ricoh unveiling at CES 2017? Ricoh released a version of their Theta 360 deg video unit, with a power plug, so it can stream for a longer time than just on batteries. Pentax? Nothing.

01-09-2017, 12:03 PM	#44
btnapa Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,615	Originally posted by richandfleur Speaking of which, did you see the awesome Pentax/Ricoh unveiling at CES 2017? Ricoh released a version of their Theta 360 deg video unit, with a power plug, so it can stream for a longer time than just on batteries. Pentax? Nothing. Yeh, I almost had a heart attack from all the excitement!! I did not get a good feeling. The Japanese execs were their usual selves, self congratulating themselves for the "breakthrough" tech they are introducing to the world. And the US based employees, looked like they were afraid of smiling. I thought Jim Malcolm's arrival a few years ago changed the culture for the better. But it felt like it was back to business as usual. To be fair, Canon was not doing any better. In the past, their camera counters had two sometimes three deep the people who wanted to get close to check out a product. This year, at least for a the few hours that I was there, it looked like a ghost town. There were 8-10 employees behind one counter, ready to show you their hardware and there was hardly anyone walking up to them. Sign of things to come? Who knows. If these are clues to what is to come for Ricoh/Pentax, we better buckle up and get ready. It is going to be a rough ride. I hope I am wrong.

01-14-2017, 05:41 AM	#45
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by btnapa I went by the Sony booth at CES to check out a few lenses for a friend who could not make it to the show. I got to try the A6500,..... I've been looking at the a6000, a6300, and now a6500,... and if Sony got their own cameras to read out the sensors faster, reducing rolling shutter, they would be a serious option for guys like me. They look to be a really good camera for the price. I remember going to a local film & photo industry even here in Melbourne, when my K-01 was less then a year old, and trying some of the current primes with AF, at which point I couldn't understand why people complain about the AF speed. One thing we all forget about those shows, there are several truckloads of lighting set up. They're almost 'ideal' conditions for showing off new equipment. Out in the real world, the AF that was fantastic under all that lighting, was 'only' normal, using the same lenses borrowed from a fellow Pentax shooter. Continuous AF in Video is something nearly all DSLR/MILC manufacturers have struggled to get right, in that regard, Sony is well ahead of the curve.