Tried a Nikon

TomE · 05-09-2010, 05:55 AM

This not a Troll post, just my personal findings!

On a whim I purchased a D200 and a 80-200 f/2.8 (no VR) lens from a friend that was selling his gear at a great price just to try out a Nikon camera compared to my Pentax gear. I found the D200 to be very non-user friendly in the layout of the controls and subject to an ERROR message when taking a photo if everything was not set just right on both the camera and lens. That became very frustrating to me compared to my K10 (same sensor) that always just works and never blows the highlights like the Nikon does on a regular basis.

The D200 is a dream to use AF wise compared to the K10 on fast moving objects like flying birds, especially birds flying erratically, which with the K10 and even my K7 will simply miss the shot hunting for focus. I love my Pentax gear, but the AF thing is really getting to me and even though the Nikon D200 (along with a friends D3) is not perfect, I am becoming frustrated with Pentax after trying the Nikon for a few months now.

I can not afford both systems, but if I sold my collection of A* and FA* lenses I could afford a D700 and some very nice non VR lenses if I decided to switch over. After all I got along without SR/VR for years with my film cameras and could easily do so now.

Come on Pentax, how about a FF camera, or even a APS camera with the AF I remember from my PZ-1 days instead of a 645D that costs more than my car or a compete D700 system!

Tom

Netsoft · 05-09-2010, 06:07 AM

Pentax is rumored to come up with a series of new cameras this year so why not wait and see what's going to happen? I also recently tried out a Canon camera and addicted to the AF speed - Pentax seems so perfect, but if they are willing to improve the AF speed, I'll start worshiping Pentax.

JayR · 05-09-2010, 06:13 AM

what worries me most is the pentax SDM failure thing - its preventing me from buying the zooms, esp if there's no screw drive override. the nikon version seemed pretty fast even in low light.

i used a Nikon D90 the other day - found the menus etc totally counter intuitive to my K7, though damn it was light compared to my K7 and FA31!

writeb · 05-09-2010, 01:59 PM

The SDM thing is really apparently a boogeyman issue for Pentax with some users. I've *never* had an SDM issue, and personally find the lenses with the HSM/SDM focus mechanism to be the best of Pentax lens mount technology.

Switching to a D700 is more of a camera and format upgrade than a platform shift. If you would have moved to a D300/D300s/D90, then I think your criticisms could be more piercing to Pentax.

AF is certainly a big deal for many of us (obviously). There's nothing like fingering that ready button and the shot is freaking ready, period. It's addictive, but at the end of the day, I'm looking for image quality and best bang for buck - which is why I'm still with Pentax. Crappy ergonomics, size, build quality and blown highlights is not an option.

I'm anxiously awaiting to see what comes out this year and hope that AF is the primary fix. I'm happy with my K-7's performance over my K20D already, but AF is the last frontier for me, and better ISO is secondary.

I find all the FF clamoring more or less a "me too" and keeping up with the Joneses type of feature request. I haven't seen many good use cases for why it's going to make me (or many of the people complaining about the lack of it) better photogs or make the images any more useful. (Feel free to set me straight). Perhaps better DOF?

TomE · 05-09-2010, 02:14 PM

I am looking at the D700 more because of high ISO performance than FF, although it would be nice to have a 28mm lens be a wide angle again along with the DOF improvement that goes with FF. I am just getting tired of my Pentax not being able to focus properly on flying birds, so I get nothing when it won't trip the shutter, when I can take my PZ-1 out right not and not have that problem.

I love my Pentax gear but I need more to go along with the great image quality (at low ISO) and the great lenses I have collected over the years. Non of that is worth anything if you miss half of your shots simply because the camera wouldn't take the photo because of slow AF.

Tom

p contor · 05-09-2010, 03:51 PM

My dad and I were hunting for DSLR's at the same time. He went with the D90 and I went with the K7. We trade back and forth and he's the one saying "if only". He covets the three pancake lenses, (21, 40, 70 ltd) and the lightweight zooms w/o the heavy VR in each lens, the small body, and even and the menu logic. Coming from a full manual cannon/ 4x5 large format film system, I love auto focus and and compared to that world, find the difference between the D90 and the K7 focusing to by typically pretty trivial. Besides, I've got my girlfriends old tak lenses that just scream to be used. Too bad my dad can't use the 1967 Nikon 50 1.4 he's got in the closet.... But, quality shots at ISO 25,600? Time will tell whether the "k7" super will even get close, but by then NIKcanon will be up to the D700s with 102K iso weighing in at only 3.5 lbs!, plus GIANT zooom for only 4K$-- It's apples and oranges folks...

Adam · 05-09-2010, 05:24 PM

Moved to off-brand.

Adam
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B Grace · 05-09-2010, 08:05 PM

Most of the errors received when using a modern Nikon camera stem from the lens aperture ring lock being loose and the ring not being at its minimum setting.

wlachan · 05-09-2010, 08:19 PM

I too found the D200 complicated to setup, but then it wasn't my camera and I didn't have much time. But one thing for certain, it has far more options to chose from, making Pentax DSLRs like toy in comparison. IMHO, any user interface will be gotten used to given enough time. It took me a long time to operate the Z-1p efficiently. The 40D was awkward to change settings fast, but after using it for 6 months w/o Pentax when I was overseas, I had to think when using the Pentax again. The truth is any new piece of equipment takes time to get familiar with. Blown highlight? Could it be the DR of the scene was too great for the camera to record so it made the subject properly exposed? Pentax never blow highlight? Could it be they just underexpose everytime? The "proper" exposure is a little difficult to define depends on how you look at it.

*isteve · 05-09-2010, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by ennacac

This not a Troll post, just my personal findings!

On a whim I purchased a D200 and a 80-200 f/2.8 (no VR) lens from a friend that was selling his gear at a great price just to try out a Nikon camera compared to my Pentax gear. I found the D200 to be very non-user friendly in the layout of the controls and subject to an ERROR message when taking a photo if everything was not set just right on both the camera and lens. That became very frustrating to me compared to my K10 (same sensor) that always just works and never blows the highlights like the Nikon does on a regular basis.

The D200 is a dream to use AF wise compared to the K10 on fast moving objects like flying birds, especially birds flying erratically, which with the K10 and even my K7 will simply miss the shot hunting for focus. I love my Pentax gear, but the AF thing is really getting to me and even though the Nikon D200 (along with a friends D3) is not perfect, I am becoming frustrated with Pentax after trying the Nikon for a few months now.

I can not afford both systems, but if I sold my collection of A* and FA* lenses I could afford a D700 and some very nice non VR lenses if I decided to switch over. After all I got along without SR/VR for years with my film cameras and could easily do so now.

Come on Pentax, how about a FF camera, or even a APS camera with the AF I remember from my PZ-1 days instead of a 645D that costs more than my car or a compete D700 system!

Tom

Having just bought a D700 and a D90 all I can say is that I agree about the menus (though you get used to anything with time) but the performance and reliability are very convincing.

In RAW the D90 offers about a half to one stop less ISO noise, more DR esp in shadows, and usable AFC. The D700 offers at least another stop of noise (more at high ISO) and a stop more DR but the AF performance is in a different league not just from the K7 but from the 5Dmk2 as well.

The controls for most general shooting purposes are similar enough that I dont notice already (2 dials like Pentax, similar on-off switch, shutter button placement, AF and AE lock placement, EV compensation etc). Its only when changing settings that its a pain, though some things I actually like, such as programmable buttons).

I miss Pentax of course, but I made the transition for business reasons and I am not going back.

joele · 05-12-2010, 08:08 PM

I don't think it is fair to say VR in lens (IS etc) is going to make the zooms much heavier!

My 70-200/f4 IS L is only 760gm, vs the closest Pentax alternative 60-250/4 which is 1040gm, the pentax costs a LOT more here too.. Now the Pentax has slightly more reach but still I don't see how VR/IS is adding that much weight. Actually a better test is the 70-200/4 non IS weights 705gm, so IS seems to add 55gm to the weight of a lens...

As for 5dMmII AF, well it is not the best AF in general if it is the same as the 5d AF system (which apparently it is). My 50d AF is much better than my 5d AF.. Not to take anything away from the D700, it is the top of the heap and all are better in lowlight than my K7 was, even though the K7 has an AF assist light and the Canons do not. It is the one area I think Pentax should focus on (excuse the pun) for their next releases..

Samsungian · 05-13-2010, 07:33 AM

Thanks for saving me $843.95 on the K-7 in my B&H shopping cart

As the K-7 price predictably drops I've been considering adding it. But $844 is still alot of money to spend and I've sold off about half of my Pentax gear this year. Still with my best lenses remaining inhand I am sometimes curious about K-7 performance. Too bad Pentax went with Samsung instead of Sony for their flagship's sensor, as it would have been more appealing to get a K-7 now that its lost $456 off its launch price.

Pentax K-7 SLR Digital Camera Body more info

B&H #PEK7 • MFR #17811

Our Price:
$843.95
Sub Total:
$843.95

Pentax | K-7 SLR Digital Camera Body | 17811 | B&H Photo Video

Originally posted by joele

I don't think it is fair to say VR in lens (IS etc) is going to make the zooms much heavier!

My 70-200/f4 IS L is only 760gm, vs the closest Pentax alternative 60-250/4 which is 1040gm, the pentax costs a LOT more here too.. Now the Pentax has slightly more reach but still I don't see how VR/IS is adding that much weight. Actually a better test is the 70-200/4 non IS weights 705gm, so IS seems to add 55gm to the weight of a lens...

As for 5dMmII AF, well it is not the best AF in general if it is the same as the 5d AF system (which apparently it is). My 50d AF is much better than my 5d AF.. Not to take anything away from the D700, it is the top of the heap and all are better in lowlight than my K7 was, even though the K7 has an AF assist light and the Canons do not. It is the one area I think Pentax should focus on (excuse the pun) for their next releases..

EricT · 05-14-2010, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by joele

I don't think it is fair to say VR in lens (IS etc) is going to make the zooms much heavier!

My 70-200/f4 IS L is only 760gm, vs the closest Pentax alternative 60-250/4 which is 1040gm, the pentax costs a LOT more here too.. Now the Pentax has slightly more reach but still I don't see how VR/IS is adding that much weight. Actually a better test is the 70-200/4 non IS weights 705gm, so IS seems to add 55gm to the weight of a lens...

As for 5dMmII AF, well it is not the best AF in general if it is the same as the 5d AF system (which apparently it is). My 50d AF is much better than my 5d AF.. Not to take anything away from the D700, it is the top of the heap and all are better in lowlight than my K7 was, even though the K7 has an AF assist light and the Canons do not. It is the one area I think Pentax should focus on (excuse the pun) for their next releases..

Slightly more reach?

The Canon has a zoom ratio of 2.86, while the Pentax has 4.17. That's nearly a 50% increase, pretty significant if you ask me! The Pentax is also weather-sealed, which the Canon is not. Finally, where do you live? At B&H, these two lenses cost the same.

joele · 05-14-2010, 08:19 AM

We don't all live in america if you look on the left hand side (next to 'location') you can see I live in Australia...

OK how about a like for like prime. Canon 300mm f4 IS vs Pentax DA*300.. Both around 2.5pound and both within $100 of $1200 on bhphoto (but again in Australia the pentax is actually more expensive). The point being having IS built in does not add 'considerable weight' to the lens as earlier claimed, which is what I was saying in my comparison, I just threw in the prices comment as that is also relevant to where I live (I did say 'here' and have my location clearly displayed on the left of ever post)..

Samsungian · 05-14-2010, 09:27 AM

Canon 300mm f4 IS is an outstanding lens.

I got mine a year ago

It has built in slip in & out screw lock in place metal hood, removable tripod mount and its still:

"Made In Japan"

Its Canon's 2nd version Eos, so improved upon design.

Seems to me Hoya is pricing gear higher in UK and Austraila inspite of not making gear in Japan anymore.

This Yen currency exchange issue doesn't affect Canon who actually still makes gear in Japan.
I wonder how low Canon will go if they also off shored production to cheap labor markets ?

05-13-2010, 07:33 AM	#12
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	Thanks for saving me $843.95 on the K-7 in my B&H shopping cart Thanks for saving me $843.95 on the K-7 in my B&H shopping cart As the K-7 price predictably drops I've been considering adding it. But $844 is still alot of money to spend and I've sold off about half of my Pentax gear this year. Still with my best lenses remaining inhand I am sometimes curious about K-7 performance. Too bad Pentax went with Samsung instead of Sony for their flagship's sensor, as it would have been more appealing to get a K-7 now that its lost $456 off its launch price. Pentax K-7 SLR Digital Camera Body more info B&H #PEK7 • MFR #17811 Our Price: $843.95 Sub Total: $843.95 Pentax \| K-7 SLR Digital Camera Body \| 17811 \| B&H Photo Video Originally posted by joele I don't think it is fair to say VR in lens (IS etc) is going to make the zooms much heavier! My 70-200/f4 IS L is only 760gm, vs the closest Pentax alternative 60-250/4 which is 1040gm, the pentax costs a LOT more here too.. Now the Pentax has slightly more reach but still I don't see how VR/IS is adding that much weight. Actually a better test is the 70-200/4 non IS weights 705gm, so IS seems to add 55gm to the weight of a lens... As for 5dMmII AF, well it is not the best AF in general if it is the same as the 5d AF system (which apparently it is). My 50d AF is much better than my 5d AF.. Not to take anything away from the D700, it is the top of the heap and all are better in lowlight than my K7 was, even though the K7 has an AF assist light and the Canons do not. It is the one area I think Pentax should focus on (excuse the pun) for their next releases..

05-14-2010, 08:19 AM	#14
joele Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308	We don't all live in america if you look on the left hand side (next to 'location') you can see I live in Australia... OK how about a like for like prime. Canon 300mm f4 IS vs Pentax DA300.. Both around 2.5pound and both within $100 of $1200 on bhphoto (but again in Australia the pentax is actually more expensive). The point being having IS built in does not add 'considerable weight' to the lens as earlier claimed, which is what I was saying in my comparison, I just threw in the prices comment as that is also relevant to where I live (I did say 'here' and have my location clearly displayed on the left of ever post).. Last edited by joele; 05-14-2010 at 08:33 AM.*

05-14-2010, 09:27 AM	#15
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	Canon 300mm f4 IS is an outstanding lens Canon 300mm f4 IS is an outstanding lens. I got mine a year ago It has built in slip in & out screw lock in place metal hood, removable tripod mount and its still: "Made In Japan" Its Canon's 2nd version Eos, so improved upon design. Seems to me Hoya is pricing gear higher in UK and Austraila inspite of not making gear in Japan anymore. This Yen currency exchange issue doesn't affect Canon who actually still makes gear in Japan. I wonder how low Canon will go if they also off shored production to cheap labor markets ?

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05-09-2010, 05:55 AM	#1
TomE Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 299	Tried a Nikon This not a Troll post, just my personal findings! On a whim I purchased a D200 and a 80-200 f/2.8 (no VR) lens from a friend that was selling his gear at a great price just to try out a Nikon camera compared to my Pentax gear. I found the D200 to be very non-user friendly in the layout of the controls and subject to an ERROR message when taking a photo if everything was not set just right on both the camera and lens. That became very frustrating to me compared to my K10 (same sensor) that always just works and never blows the highlights like the Nikon does on a regular basis. The D200 is a dream to use AF wise compared to the K10 on fast moving objects like flying birds, especially birds flying erratically, which with the K10 and even my K7 will simply miss the shot hunting for focus. I love my Pentax gear, but the AF thing is really getting to me and even though the Nikon D200 (along with a friends D3) is not perfect, I am becoming frustrated with Pentax after trying the Nikon for a few months now. I can not afford both systems, but if I sold my collection of A* and FA* lenses I could afford a D700 and some very nice non VR lenses if I decided to switch over. After all I got along without SR/VR for years with my film cameras and could easily do so now. Come on Pentax, how about a FF camera, or even a APS camera with the AF I remember from my PZ-1 days instead of a 645D that costs more than my car or a compete D700 system! Tom

05-09-2010, 06:07 AM	#2
Netsoft Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Malaysia Posts: 58	Pentax is rumored to come up with a series of new cameras this year so why not wait and see what's going to happen? I also recently tried out a Canon camera and addicted to the AF speed - Pentax seems so perfect, but if they are willing to improve the AF speed, I'll start worshiping Pentax.

05-09-2010, 06:13 AM	#3
JayR Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Adelaide, SA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 273	what worries me most is the pentax SDM failure thing - its preventing me from buying the zooms, esp if there's no screw drive override. the nikon version seemed pretty fast even in low light. i used a Nikon D90 the other day - found the menus etc totally counter intuitive to my K7, though damn it was light compared to my K7 and FA31!

05-09-2010, 01:59 PM	#4
writeb Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: San Jose Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 150	The SDM thing is really apparently a boogeyman issue for Pentax with some users. I've never had an SDM issue, and personally find the lenses with the HSM/SDM focus mechanism to be the best of Pentax lens mount technology. Switching to a D700 is more of a camera and format upgrade than a platform shift. If you would have moved to a D300/D300s/D90, then I think your criticisms could be more piercing to Pentax. AF is certainly a big deal for many of us (obviously). There's nothing like fingering that ready button and the shot is freaking ready, period. It's addictive, but at the end of the day, I'm looking for image quality and best bang for buck - which is why I'm still with Pentax. Crappy ergonomics, size, build quality and blown highlights is not an option. I'm anxiously awaiting to see what comes out this year and hope that AF is the primary fix. I'm happy with my K-7's performance over my K20D already, but AF is the last frontier for me, and better ISO is secondary. I find all the FF clamoring more or less a "me too" and keeping up with the Joneses type of feature request. I haven't seen many good use cases for why it's going to make me (or many of the people complaining about the lack of it) better photogs or make the images any more useful. (Feel free to set me straight). Perhaps better DOF?

05-09-2010, 02:14 PM	#5
TomE Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 299 Original Poster	I am looking at the D700 more because of high ISO performance than FF, although it would be nice to have a 28mm lens be a wide angle again along with the DOF improvement that goes with FF. I am just getting tired of my Pentax not being able to focus properly on flying birds, so I get nothing when it won't trip the shutter, when I can take my PZ-1 out right not and not have that problem. I love my Pentax gear but I need more to go along with the great image quality (at low ISO) and the great lenses I have collected over the years. Non of that is worth anything if you miss half of your shots simply because the camera wouldn't take the photo because of slow AF. Tom

05-09-2010, 03:51 PM	#6
p contor New Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bellingham WA Posts: 7	My dad and I were hunting for DSLR's at the same time. He went with the D90 and I went with the K7. We trade back and forth and he's the one saying "if only". He covets the three pancake lenses, (21, 40, 70 ltd) and the lightweight zooms w/o the heavy VR in each lens, the small body, and even and the menu logic. Coming from a full manual cannon/ 4x5 large format film system, I love auto focus and and compared to that world, find the difference between the D90 and the K7 focusing to by typically pretty trivial. Besides, I've got my girlfriends old tak lenses that just scream to be used. Too bad my dad can't use the 1967 Nikon 50 1.4 he's got in the closet.... But, quality shots at ISO 25,600? Time will tell whether the "k7" super will even get close, but by then NIKcanon will be up to the D700s with 102K iso weighing in at only 3.5 lbs!, plus GIANT zooom for only 4K$-- It's apples and oranges folks...

05-09-2010, 05:24 PM	#7
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,594	Moved to off-brand. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

05-09-2010, 08:05 PM	#8
B Grace Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 429	Most of the errors received when using a modern Nikon camera stem from the lens aperture ring lock being loose and the ring not being at its minimum setting.

05-09-2010, 08:19 PM	#9
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	I too found the D200 complicated to setup, but then it wasn't my camera and I didn't have much time. But one thing for certain, it has far more options to chose from, making Pentax DSLRs like toy in comparison. IMHO, any user interface will be gotten used to given enough time. It took me a long time to operate the Z-1p efficiently. The 40D was awkward to change settings fast, but after using it for 6 months w/o Pentax when I was overseas, I had to think when using the Pentax again. The truth is any new piece of equipment takes time to get familiar with. Blown highlight? Could it be the DR of the scene was too great for the camera to record so it made the subject properly exposed? Pentax never blow highlight? Could it be they just underexpose everytime? The "proper" exposure is a little difficult to define depends on how you look at it.

05-09-2010, 08:35 PM	#10
*isteve Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 1,187	Originally posted by ennacac This not a Troll post, just my personal findings! On a whim I purchased a D200 and a 80-200 f/2.8 (no VR) lens from a friend that was selling his gear at a great price just to try out a Nikon camera compared to my Pentax gear. I found the D200 to be very non-user friendly in the layout of the controls and subject to an ERROR message when taking a photo if everything was not set just right on both the camera and lens. That became very frustrating to me compared to my K10 (same sensor) that always just works and never blows the highlights like the Nikon does on a regular basis. The D200 is a dream to use AF wise compared to the K10 on fast moving objects like flying birds, especially birds flying erratically, which with the K10 and even my K7 will simply miss the shot hunting for focus. I love my Pentax gear, but the AF thing is really getting to me and even though the Nikon D200 (along with a friends D3) is not perfect, I am becoming frustrated with Pentax after trying the Nikon for a few months now. I can not afford both systems, but if I sold my collection of A* and FA* lenses I could afford a D700 and some very nice non VR lenses if I decided to switch over. After all I got along without SR/VR for years with my film cameras and could easily do so now. Come on Pentax, how about a FF camera, or even a APS camera with the AF I remember from my PZ-1 days instead of a 645D that costs more than my car or a compete D700 system! Tom Having just bought a D700 and a D90 all I can say is that I agree about the menus (though you get used to anything with time) but the performance and reliability are very convincing. In RAW the D90 offers about a half to one stop less ISO noise, more DR esp in shadows, and usable AFC. The D700 offers at least another stop of noise (more at high ISO) and a stop more DR but the AF performance is in a different league not just from the K7 but from the 5Dmk2 as well. The controls for most general shooting purposes are similar enough that I dont notice already (2 dials like Pentax, similar on-off switch, shutter button placement, AF and AE lock placement, EV compensation etc). Its only when changing settings that its a pain, though some things I actually like, such as programmable buttons). I miss Pentax of course, but I made the transition for business reasons and I am not going back.

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05-12-2010, 08:08 PM	#11
joele Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308	I don't think it is fair to say VR in lens (IS etc) is going to make the zooms much heavier! My 70-200/f4 IS L is only 760gm, vs the closest Pentax alternative 60-250/4 which is 1040gm, the pentax costs a LOT more here too.. Now the Pentax has slightly more reach but still I don't see how VR/IS is adding that much weight. Actually a better test is the 70-200/4 non IS weights 705gm, so IS seems to add 55gm to the weight of a lens... As for 5dMmII AF, well it is not the best AF in general if it is the same as the 5d AF system (which apparently it is). My 50d AF is much better than my 5d AF.. Not to take anything away from the D700, it is the top of the heap and all are better in lowlight than my K7 was, even though the K7 has an AF assist light and the Canons do not. It is the one area I think Pentax should focus on (excuse the pun) for their next releases..

05-14-2010, 05:37 AM	#13
EricT Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 484	Originally posted by joele I don't think it is fair to say VR in lens (IS etc) is going to make the zooms much heavier! My 70-200/f4 IS L is only 760gm, vs the closest Pentax alternative 60-250/4 which is 1040gm, the pentax costs a LOT more here too.. Now the Pentax has slightly more reach but still I don't see how VR/IS is adding that much weight. Actually a better test is the 70-200/4 non IS weights 705gm, so IS seems to add 55gm to the weight of a lens... As for 5dMmII AF, well it is not the best AF in general if it is the same as the 5d AF system (which apparently it is). My 50d AF is much better than my 5d AF.. Not to take anything away from the D700, it is the top of the heap and all are better in lowlight than my K7 was, even though the K7 has an AF assist light and the Canons do not. It is the one area I think Pentax should focus on (excuse the pun) for their next releases.. Slightly more reach? The Canon has a zoom ratio of 2.86, while the Pentax has 4.17. That's nearly a 50% increase, pretty significant if you ask me! The Pentax is also weather-sealed, which the Canon is not. Finally, where do you live? At B&H, these two lenses cost the same.