Nikon D7000 High ISO Samples

**rm2** · 10-28-2010, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Pentax Lover

Canon and Nikon or Canikon are always tring to outdo each other, the Story I have heard on D7k is that Nikon put this out to Kill the 7D sales, it WAS NOT aimed at 60D, 60D is a lower Camera then D7k. And to add to that, Nikon may have rushed to fast to put out what would have been a superb Camera, but right now, Nikon has they're work cut for them, and time will tell if they can keep up with demand, or done themselves in!

I also just read that the D7000 bracketing is limited to 1 E.V. That just about kills it for HDR work (besides the 3 picture limitation already mentioned).

rawr · 10-28-2010, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by rm2

Imaging-Resource has posted samples of the Nikon D7000:

Cool - you can also now use the Comparator to check it's JPEG output against the K-x!
Imaging Resource "Comparometer" ™ Digital Camera Image Comparison Page

The example below is at ISO 6400. The K-x does well against the D7000. Hard to tell them apart.

Ole · 10-28-2010, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

Seriously, who cares about the D7000. This post shouldn't even be here... it should be posted under Non-Pentax Cameras...

Moved to the appropriate forum.

**rm2** · 10-28-2010, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by rawr

Cool - you can also now use the Comparator to check it's JPEG output against the K-x!
Imaging Resource "Comparometer" ™ Digital Camera Image Comparison Page

The example below is at ISO 6400. The K-x does well against the D7000. Hard to tell them apart.

Well, I actually do think the D7000 looks better than the (one generation older) K-x here. The real test will be against the K-5 and the K-r.

pxpaulx · 10-28-2010, 10:58 AM

Rawr, you're right - though I think the d7000 gets the knod due to the additional sensor resolution, overall they are very close in terms of detail retention, it even goes back and forth a little (which could be from slight variances in lighting). Unfortunately that isn't a terribly great result for the D7000!

vancmann · 10-28-2010, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by rm2

Imaging-Resource has posted samples of the Nikon D7000:

Nikon D7000 Digital Camera Samples - First Shots - The Imaging Resource!

Thanks for this link!!

Steelski · 10-28-2010, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think John Bee at this point has more experience working with high iso files from both the D700 and K5 than anyone else on the forum. I don't own either of these cameras (or the D7000 for that matter) and so his view is definitely more useful to me. obviously, he is not God and his opinion is fallible, but to me, it is useful, honest, and appreciated.

I don't think you grasped the simplicity of what I was trying to say.....
The results he posts are reproducible, he even states so and is trying to put a tutorial together.
I respect John very much, he is my guide on a few things, including RPP which I will try to use more and more.
Its simple and doable, I am getting tired of people constantly saying that he does things out of their reach. It is within the majority of peoples reach with a little bit of knowhow, experimentation and time.
Its the same for me. I can produce almost the same results, and I do it within the guidelines of what John states..... a few seconds on medium ISO, 1-10 minutes on higher ISO depending on picture type.
It is possible to go even further with images if you have 20-40 minutes to really perfect the art using calculations masks and other advanced tools and channel specific NR. But almost everything John has shown is repeatable and doable by everyone.

vancmann · 10-28-2010, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by Steelski

All I hear is John this and John that. John John John John. (no offence John..... read on).
Its really not a miracle John does what he does. Pleas people, read a little of what he does. I do it differently and come to very close results. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Its very simple, use great quality software in moderation.
If you have ACR, use the chroma noise reduction, if you have Noiseware Pro, use its ability to blur smoothly, if you have Topaz 5 then use that on detailed areas. learn masking and layers and you are set. If you have basic photoshop knowledge you can do something close.
John John John John John...... go out and try some things yourselves, you might be surprised. Although John surprised me with his K20D work, It took me a little bit of time and effort to duplicate what he does with it. Same with some of the K-5 images.
Its simple, easy, fairly fast. The big miracle here is the fact the K-5 grain structure is so easy to manipulate into something usable.

I email John about some things, but I do not think he is some kind of wizard, Just very systematic and hard working. Good to learn from him,,,,, and he is trying to teach people.
No magic involved
Oh, and he is a nice writer.

Maybe you are correct in assuming that anyone can do it, but as of now some of us need some directions.
As far as from what I have seen and read on this forum, John is the main one posting results both before and after processing. The truth, its very exciting an motivating. Hence we talk about the results, the work that goes into it, the time that goes into it, who is doing it, ect ect. Point: not who can do it but who is doing it!
Please dont take this negatively, but I would love to see some of that work you can do either on the K5 or D7000 images(like the ones above).
To stay on subject, show me (if you can and if you got the time), what you can do to clean up the above images and I will use some Steelski name as well on my noise obsession posts. :-)

Steelski · 10-28-2010, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by vancmann

Maybe you are correct in assuming that anyone can do it, but as of now some of us need some directions.
As far as from what I have seen and read on this forum, John is the main one posting results both before and after processing. The truth, its very exciting an motivating. Hence we talk about the results, the work that goes into it, the time that goes into it, who is doing it, ect ect. Point: not who can do it but who is doing it!
Please dont take this negatively, but I would love to see some of that work you can do either on the K5 or D7000 images(like the ones above).
To stay on subject, show me (if you can and if you got the time), what you can do to clean up the above images and I will use some Steelski name as well on my noise obsession posts. :-)

Ok, But I am not doing this to get my name anywhere, I just want to show that its normal and possible. John is more active than me, and gets the files before me. I hope nobody think I am ripping on John, I learned a lot from what he does. Probably increased my max usable ISO by 2/3 of a stop from what he does. So I am just as thankful as the next guy. But it still does not change the fact that the process is simple enough. If you pick up the basics, you should be able to come within 1/2 a stop of him after some practice.
Here is the D7000 25600 sample from RAW treated with ACR 6.3 for chroma, and then Topaz for general, noiseware for blotches and topaz again to add grain, then sharpened a little with smart sharpen. I missed the blotches between the ribbons. That would be an extra couple of minutes. over all it took about 7-8 minutes. Fairly easy.

Here is the first 51200 sample done by myself, Both images can be done better, but I do not have that much time.
This image was done with masks, and I still missed something, about 20-30 minutes as I remember. If I went the whole hog, it would take about 40-50 minutes to get it grain free. That would involve some cloning, painting and more masking.

vancmann · 10-28-2010, 04:34 PM

Nice! The first image, the D7000's, its hard to rate because although no noise, there are no fine details in that image.

The second one, if it is indeed the 51,200, looks dam good. I messed around with that image using just NN and while I removed the noise, I found it hard to keep any details. Had trouble finding the "sweet spot" of less noise and more details.

What would be your reccomendation of software to get in addition to NN for noise removal?

Steelski · 10-29-2010, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by vancmann

Nice! The first image, the D7000's, its hard to rate because although no noise, there are no fine details in that image.

The second one, if it is indeed the 51,200, looks dam good. I messed around with that image using just NN and while I removed the noise, I found it hard to keep any details. Had trouble finding the "sweet spot" of less noise and more details.

What would be your reccomendation of software to get in addition to NN for noise removal?

Thats a bit harsh on the first image, Most of the detail is still there, at least with what there was to start with.

Topaz Denoise 5 is the best NR utility..... John concurs on this. Although it does not remove blotchy noise, it rebuilds detail by analyzing noise patterns....Its a very clever program but easy to use. If you have NN then you will know its a smearfest like Noiseware. Which has its uses for background, flat surface work. to remove blotches. But not for the heaviest of noise or in detailed areas. The algorithms work best at finer noise patters (read anything up to 12800 on K-5)
protect highlights by applying partial masks. quick mask/normal mask.

Here is the 25600 Version, this is very easy to do. Its simply Open in ACR and apply chroma NR to liking. Apply small amount of sharpening. Apply Topaz Denoise, apply some more slight sharpening (bigger radius this time but less strong)
I tried to get a similar result using the Pentax Camera Utility instead of ACR. Because ACR builds the image with much finer grain, it was easy to NR, the Pentax utility was not!, but it produces nicer colors.

I just redid the 51200 version. simpler, and faster. As I used DCraw for my first attempt, this time I used ACR.
I found out something new with the way Topaz behaves. If I sharpened the image first, it picked up the noise easier at a lower setting whilst retaining detail . I then masked the image to use Noiseware on the background. (like Noise Ninja) I then added noise to the same masked parts so as to make the image look grainy, but not so noisy.
Here is the result, its better than the other 51200 image I did a few weeks back. live and learn.
Again, this time it took me 15-20 minutes. If I had knows what I was doing beforehand I would have done it in 5-10.

vancmann · 10-29-2010, 10:55 AM

Good work

Originally posted by Steelski

Thats a bit harsh on the first image, Most of the detail is still there, at least with what there was to start with.

Topaz Denoise 5 is the best NR utility..... John concurs on this. Although it does not remove blotchy noise, it rebuilds detail by analyzing noise patterns....Its a very clever program but easy to use. If you have NN then you will know its a smearfest like Noiseware. Which has its uses for background, flat surface work. to remove blotches. But not for the heaviest of noise or in detailed areas. The algorithms work best at finer noise patters (read anything up to 12800 on K-5)
protect highlights by applying partial masks. quick mask/normal mask.

Regarding my comment on the first image, let me clarify. I meant that the details of the fabric or color threads were hard to see with the resolution of the image displayed on the post and as a result, I couldn't gage any work that was done. I was on my 13" laptop too. We both know that 100% cropped or full sized images are more effective at checking noise and details.

Today, something weared happened. I tried clicking on the image to get the larger size full resolution of the images and when i zoomed in, the image got real noisy. As if prior to the noise reduction, and those looked not too noisy either. Dont understand. The cleaned image only appeared on this page (small 1200x800 or so) and unzoomed.

BTW, thanks for the recommendations; looks like I will need to get some software but i will wait for the tutorial to come out first. I am thinking of getting LR3 since I just use real old photoshop 7

and NN

The details on the toy dino and zyrtec lid looks real good

bobmaxja · 10-30-2010, 05:54 AM

The photo with Godzilla and the car are from Pentax K-5. If so it's now hard tto follow because peoples can thing they are from the D7K except if you look on the Exif

vancmann · 10-30-2010, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by bobmaxja

The photo with Godzilla and the car are from Pentax K-5. If so it's now hard tto follow because peoples can thing they are from the D7K except if you look on the Exif

Good point! We should fix that so people who dont know those images dont think it is from the D7000

Class A · 10-31-2010, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by Pentax Lover

It's just too bad that Pentax put in such a small buffer.

The buffer is big enough to allow shooting 20 RAWs in succession. You probably didn't see the recent firmware upgrade announcement yet.

10-28-2010, 02:04 PM	#38
vancmann Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 53 Original Poster	Originally posted by Steelski All I hear is John this and John that. John John John John. (no offence John..... read on). Its really not a miracle John does what he does. Pleas people, read a little of what he does. I do it differently and come to very close results. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Its very simple, use great quality software in moderation. If you have ACR, use the chroma noise reduction, if you have Noiseware Pro, use its ability to blur smoothly, if you have Topaz 5 then use that on detailed areas. learn masking and layers and you are set. If you have basic photoshop knowledge you can do something close. John John John John John...... go out and try some things yourselves, you might be surprised. Although John surprised me with his K20D work, It took me a little bit of time and effort to duplicate what he does with it. Same with some of the K-5 images. Its simple, easy, fairly fast. The big miracle here is the fact the K-5 grain structure is so easy to manipulate into something usable. I email John about some things, but I do not think he is some kind of wizard, Just very systematic and hard working. Good to learn from him,,,,, and he is trying to teach people. No magic involved Oh, and he is a nice writer. Maybe you are correct in assuming that anyone can do it, but as of now some of us need some directions. As far as from what I have seen and read on this forum, John is the main one posting results both before and after processing. The truth, its very exciting an motivating. Hence we talk about the results, the work that goes into it, the time that goes into it, who is doing it, ect ect. Point: not who can do it but who is doing it! Please dont take this negatively, but I would love to see some of that work you can do either on the K5 or D7000 images(like the ones above). To stay on subject, show me (if you can and if you got the time), what you can do to clean up the above images and I will use some Steelski name as well on my noise obsession posts. :-) Last edited by vancmann; 10-28-2010 at 02:09 PM. Reason: added a friendly smile

10-28-2010, 03:32 PM	#39
Steelski Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Varna Posts: 470	Originally posted by vancmann Maybe you are correct in assuming that anyone can do it, but as of now some of us need some directions. As far as from what I have seen and read on this forum, John is the main one posting results both before and after processing. The truth, its very exciting an motivating. Hence we talk about the results, the work that goes into it, the time that goes into it, who is doing it, ect ect. Point: not who can do it but who is doing it! Please dont take this negatively, but I would love to see some of that work you can do either on the K5 or D7000 images(like the ones above). To stay on subject, show me (if you can and if you got the time), what you can do to clean up the above images and I will use some Steelski name as well on my noise obsession posts. :-) Ok, But I am not doing this to get my name anywhere, I just want to show that its normal and possible. John is more active than me, and gets the files before me. I hope nobody think I am ripping on John, I learned a lot from what he does. Probably increased my max usable ISO by 2/3 of a stop from what he does. So I am just as thankful as the next guy. But it still does not change the fact that the process is simple enough. If you pick up the basics, you should be able to come within 1/2 a stop of him after some practice. Here is the D7000 25600 sample from RAW treated with ACR 6.3 for chroma, and then Topaz for general, noiseware for blotches and topaz again to add grain, then sharpened a little with smart sharpen. I missed the blotches between the ribbons. That would be an extra couple of minutes. over all it took about 7-8 minutes. Fairly easy. Here is the first 51200 sample done by myself, Both images can be done better, but I do not have that much time. This image was done with masks, and I still missed something, about 20-30 minutes as I remember. If I went the whole hog, it would take about 40-50 minutes to get it grain free. That would involve some cloning, painting and more masking. Last edited by Steelski; 10-28-2010 at 03:45 PM.

10-29-2010, 01:37 AM	#41
Steelski Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Varna Posts: 470	Originally posted by vancmann Nice! The first image, the D7000's, its hard to rate because although no noise, there are no fine details in that image. The second one, if it is indeed the 51,200, looks dam good. I messed around with that image using just NN and while I removed the noise, I found it hard to keep any details. Had trouble finding the "sweet spot" of less noise and more details. What would be your reccomendation of software to get in addition to NN for noise removal? Thats a bit harsh on the first image, Most of the detail is still there, at least with what there was to start with. Topaz Denoise 5 is the best NR utility..... John concurs on this. Although it does not remove blotchy noise, it rebuilds detail by analyzing noise patterns....Its a very clever program but easy to use. If you have NN then you will know its a smearfest like Noiseware. Which has its uses for background, flat surface work. to remove blotches. But not for the heaviest of noise or in detailed areas. The algorithms work best at finer noise patters (read anything up to 12800 on K-5) protect highlights by applying partial masks. quick mask/normal mask. Here is the 25600 Version, this is very easy to do. Its simply Open in ACR and apply chroma NR to liking. Apply small amount of sharpening. Apply Topaz Denoise, apply some more slight sharpening (bigger radius this time but less strong) I tried to get a similar result using the Pentax Camera Utility instead of ACR. Because ACR builds the image with much finer grain, it was easy to NR, the Pentax utility was not!, but it produces nicer colors. I just redid the 51200 version. simpler, and faster. As I used DCraw for my first attempt, this time I used ACR. I found out something new with the way Topaz behaves. If I sharpened the image first, it picked up the noise easier at a lower setting whilst retaining detail . I then masked the image to use Noiseware on the background. (like Noise Ninja) I then added noise to the same masked parts so as to make the image look grainy, but not so noisy. Here is the result, its better than the other 51200 image I did a few weeks back. live and learn. Again, this time it took me 15-20 minutes. If I had knows what I was doing beforehand I would have done it in 5-10. Last edited by Steelski; 10-29-2010 at 02:21 AM.

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10-28-2010, 10:34 AM	#31
rm2 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hudson Valley - NY Posts: 778	Originally posted by Pentax Lover Canon and Nikon or Canikon are always tring to outdo each other, the Story I have heard on D7k is that Nikon put this out to Kill the 7D sales, it WAS NOT aimed at 60D, 60D is a lower Camera then D7k. And to add to that, Nikon may have rushed to fast to put out what would have been a superb Camera, but right now, Nikon has they're work cut for them, and time will tell if they can keep up with demand, or done themselves in! I also just read that the D7000 bracketing is limited to 1 E.V. That just about kills it for HDR work (besides the 3 picture limitation already mentioned).

10-28-2010, 10:40 AM	#32
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by rm2 Imaging-Resource has posted samples of the Nikon D7000: Cool - you can also now use the Comparator to check it's JPEG output against the K-x! Imaging Resource "Comparometer" ™ Digital Camera Image Comparison Page The example below is at ISO 6400. The K-x does well against the D7000. Hard to tell them apart.

10-28-2010, 10:49 AM	#33
Ole Administrator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,408	Originally posted by creampuff Seriously, who cares about the D7000. This post shouldn't even be here... it should be posted under Non-Pentax Cameras... Moved to the appropriate forum.

10-28-2010, 10:55 AM	#34
rm2 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hudson Valley - NY Posts: 778	Originally posted by rawr Cool - you can also now use the Comparator to check it's JPEG output against the K-x! Imaging Resource "Comparometer" ™ Digital Camera Image Comparison Page The example below is at ISO 6400. The K-x does well against the D7000. Hard to tell them apart. Well, I actually do think the D7000 looks better than the (one generation older) K-x here. The real test will be against the K-5 and the K-r.

10-28-2010, 10:58 AM	#35
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Rawr, you're right - though I think the d7000 gets the knod due to the additional sensor resolution, overall they are very close in terms of detail retention, it even goes back and forth a little (which could be from slight variances in lighting). Unfortunately that isn't a terribly great result for the D7000!

10-28-2010, 11:30 AM	#36
vancmann Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 53 Original Poster	Originally posted by rm2 Imaging-Resource has posted samples of the Nikon D7000: Nikon D7000 Digital Camera Samples - First Shots - The Imaging Resource! Thanks for this link!!

10-28-2010, 12:47 PM	#37
Steelski Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Varna Posts: 470	Originally posted by Rondec I think John Bee at this point has more experience working with high iso files from both the D700 and K5 than anyone else on the forum. I don't own either of these cameras (or the D7000 for that matter) and so his view is definitely more useful to me. obviously, he is not God and his opinion is fallible, but to me, it is useful, honest, and appreciated. I don't think you grasped the simplicity of what I was trying to say..... The results he posts are reproducible, he even states so and is trying to put a tutorial together. I respect John very much, he is my guide on a few things, including RPP which I will try to use more and more. Its simple and doable, I am getting tired of people constantly saying that he does things out of their reach. It is within the majority of peoples reach with a little bit of knowhow, experimentation and time. Its the same for me. I can produce almost the same results, and I do it within the guidelines of what John states..... a few seconds on medium ISO, 1-10 minutes on higher ISO depending on picture type. It is possible to go even further with images if you have 20-40 minutes to really perfect the art using calculations masks and other advanced tools and channel specific NR. But almost everything John has shown is repeatable and doable by everyone.

10-28-2010, 04:34 PM	#40
vancmann Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 53 Original Poster	Nice! The first image, the D7000's, its hard to rate because although no noise, there are no fine details in that image. The second one, if it is indeed the 51,200, looks dam good. I messed around with that image using just NN and while I removed the noise, I found it hard to keep any details. Had trouble finding the "sweet spot" of less noise and more details. What would be your reccomendation of software to get in addition to NN for noise removal?

10-29-2010, 10:55 AM	#42
vancmann Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 53 Original Poster	Good work Originally posted by Steelski Thats a bit harsh on the first image, Most of the detail is still there, at least with what there was to start with. Topaz Denoise 5 is the best NR utility..... John concurs on this. Although it does not remove blotchy noise, it rebuilds detail by analyzing noise patterns....Its a very clever program but easy to use. If you have NN then you will know its a smearfest like Noiseware. Which has its uses for background, flat surface work. to remove blotches. But not for the heaviest of noise or in detailed areas. The algorithms work best at finer noise patters (read anything up to 12800 on K-5) protect highlights by applying partial masks. quick mask/normal mask. Regarding my comment on the first image, let me clarify. I meant that the details of the fabric or color threads were hard to see with the resolution of the image displayed on the post and as a result, I couldn't gage any work that was done. I was on my 13" laptop too. We both know that 100% cropped or full sized images are more effective at checking noise and details. Today, something weared happened. I tried clicking on the image to get the larger size full resolution of the images and when i zoomed in, the image got real noisy. As if prior to the noise reduction, and those looked not too noisy either. Dont understand. The cleaned image only appeared on this page (small 1200x800 or so) and unzoomed. BTW, thanks for the recommendations; looks like I will need to get some software but i will wait for the tutorial to come out first. I am thinking of getting LR3 since I just use real old photoshop 7 and NN The details on the toy dino and zyrtec lid looks real good

10-30-2010, 05:54 AM	#43
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	The photo with Godzilla and the car are from Pentax K-5. If so it's now hard tto follow because peoples can thing they are from the D7K except if you look on the Exif

10-30-2010, 12:42 PM	#44
vancmann Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 53 Original Poster	Originally posted by bobmaxja The photo with Godzilla and the car are from Pentax K-5. If so it's now hard tto follow because peoples can thing they are from the D7K except if you look on the Exif Good point! We should fix that so people who dont know those images dont think it is from the D7000

10-31-2010, 12:42 AM	#45
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Pentax Lover It's just too bad that Pentax put in such a small buffer. The buffer is big enough to allow shooting 20 RAWs in succession. You probably didn't see the recent firmware upgrade announcement yet.