[deejjjaaaa]

The upcomming Sony Alpha 77 (mirrorless)

dear, A77 has mirror... just a fixed one.

[nickthetasmaniac]

dear, A77 has mirror... just a fixed one.

Yes but in this case it's the reflex part of the mirror design that affects speed.

[RioRico]

Yes but in this case it's the reflex part of the mirror design that affects speed.

Rather, it's the swinging mirror that affects speed of operation. Reflex just means that a mirror is there, like with twin-lens-reflex film cameras. A TLR mirror doesn't swing, it just... reflects. All that moves with a TLR is the focus and shutter. A SLR has that moving mass of mirror with its necessary shock-absorber etc.

[nickthetasmaniac]

Rather, it's the swinging mirror that affects speed of operation. Reflex just means that a mirror is there, like with twin-lens-reflex film cameras. A TLR mirror doesn't swing, it just... reflects. All that moves with a TLR is the focus and shutter. A SLR has that moving mass of mirror with its necessary shock-absorber etc.

Ahhhhhh, I thought 'reflex' referred to the physical action of the mirror assembly - ie. the movement. Thanks for clarifying

[RioRico]

Ahhhhhh, I thought 'reflex' referred to the physical action of the mirror assembly - ie. the movement. Thanks for clarifying

Yeah, it's real tricky terminology. A reflex reflects. I hadn't noticed the wordplay until I wrote the above, and I've been at this since the Eisenhower years. Duh...

Besides SLR's with a swinging mirror, and TLR's with a fixed, I think there were also 3LR's for stereo. And not all SLRs follow the pattern that Pentax developed about the time I started terrorizing the neighborhood with a Brownie. I have a full-frame Praktica FX3 with a waist-level finder, no pentaprism, no prism at all. And I had a half-frame Olympus Pen-FT with a vertical porroprism (like you find in binoculars) completely internal to the camera body. Oh, that was a sweet one! The German standard in the 1950's used removable lenses with internal leaf shutters instead of the in-camera focal-plane shutter that devoured the world. No M42's there, alas.

[jogiba]

I think it is kind of ironic that the Japanese are flocking to cheap Chinese cameras.

I think it is kind of ironic that Americans are flocking to expensive Chinese made Mac computers, iPhones, iPods, iPads etc.

[borno]

I think it is kind of ironic that Americans are flocking to expensive Chinese made Mac computers, iPhones, iPods, iPads etc.

How true!

[séamuis]

I think it is kind of ironic that Americans are flocking to expensive Chinese made Mac computers, iPhones, iPods, iPads etc.

there aren’t all chinese made, just mostly chinese assembled. there is a big difference there that shouldn’t be wrongly defined. like the very real difference between the ‘assembled in vietnam’ on our lenses and ‘made in japan’ on the older ones. I’m not defending apple, but there is more to the possible irony there beyond high sales price and possible cost of manufacture, especially with apple.

[deejjjaaaa]

Yes but in this case it's the reflex part of the mirror design that affects speed.

yes, but it is still NOT mirrorless

[nickthetasmaniac]

I think it is kind of ironic that the Japanese are flocking to cheap Chinese cameras.

My old E-3 was made in China, and that thing felt like it was hewn out of a solid block of aluminium...

I don't think 'made in China' necessarily means what it did 10 or 20 years ago...

[Chex]

I think it's funnier that Made in China is now undeniably the market standard for almost everything.. pretty soon with the global economy it will be "assembled in the USA"

[nosnoop]

Also mirrorless camera's will become FAR superior for sports and fast action shooting. imagine being able to snap at say 15-30 frames per second with the same sensor quality that Canikon's have and only shoot at 6-11 fps. no mirror to coordinate or mirror slap to worry about, just turn the sensor on and off, that's all!

At this point, even though they have no mirrors, they still have the mechanical shutters to worry about.
In the near future, when progressive sensors become a reality; and mechanical shutters are gone for good, mirrorless cameras would really be flying - and imagine flash sync speed at 1/4000 or 1/8000....

[normhead]

Also mirrorless camera's will become FAR superior for sports and fast action shooting. imagine being able to snap at say 15-30 frames per second with the same sensor quality that Canikon's have and only shoot at 6-11 fps. no mirror to coordinate or mirror slap to worry about, just turn the sensor on and off, that's all!

That's just not right. My K-x takes movies without the mirror flapping around for each frame.... that would be multiple expossures at 25 fps or something... there's nothing about a camera having a mirror that says it has to use the mirror. There is the thing where if you like the mirro, in a mirrorless camera it's not there, so you don't have the choice. There have been mirrorless cameras forever... longer than there have been DSLR's. To start claiming they have some kind of potential not shared by DSLR's is just nonsense. Stick with small, light easy to carry... things that are demonstrably true.

Even in the film days there were mirrorless cameras. I have a twin lens reflex in my display case. All viefinder cameras are mirrorless. Range finder cameras were mirrorless. Let's not make out that techincal mirrorless solutions are something new...

[nickthetasmaniac]

That's just not right. My K-x takes movies without the mirror flapping around for each frame.... that would be multiple expossures at 25 fps or something...

How does that OVF go when your K-x is shooting 25fps?


**in case my subtly was lost - tongue is firmly in cheek**

[normhead]

How does that OVF go when your K-x is shooting 25fps?

Comparing a theortical camera that doesn't exist with a real world camera, if you lose that argument there's something wrong with you. Hopefully it really was tongue in cheek.. because the judges aren't awarding a point, and they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.