New State of the Art in sensors/lenses

LFLee · 10-05-2011, 08:16 PM

I guess you guys are discussing this article? How smartphones are changing digital photography: Digital Photography Review

"The enormous growth in popularity of smartphones in the past three years has had many consequences, some of which were in retrospect easy to predict, and some of which are not yet fully understood. This is true especially in the field of digital photography. Smartphone users, it appears, take a lot of photographs. The Apple iPhone 4 is currently the most popular 'camera' on Flickr.com, and millions of dollars are being made by mobile developers who can't create photo apps quickly enough to satisfy the demands of a new breed - 'serious' cameraphone photographers. "

joe.penn · 10-05-2011, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by jsherman999

Do you see a pattern here? What do you attribute it to, blind luck, again and again?

Marketing (main key to success) and refinements of Japanese (near decade old at the time) hardware technology that was purchased by apple - the main innovation was in the op sys that the devices run and success of the apple store. The apple app store was nothing new, no new technology but a new concept where developers could develop the apps while apple markets them <- (Marketing)

--

jsherman999 · 10-05-2011, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by joe.penn

Marketing (main key to success) and refinements of Japanese (near decade old at the time) hardware technology that was purchased by apple - the main innovation was in the op sys that the devices run and success of the apple store. The apple app store was nothing new, no new technology but a new concept where developers could develop the apps while apple markets them <- (Marketing)

.

Of course, marketing. But you can't successfully market crap again and again, especially when the level of competition out there is what it is. A company that truly has a better, more innovative product and can market it would eat your lunch.

It's a combination of marketing + design + Vision (for lack of better term) that's truly innovative. It seems to me that Apple haters overstate the marketing, understate the design, and almost completely deny the Vision.

.

joe.penn · 10-05-2011, 09:14 PM

Actually you can successfully market crap over and over, GM and Ford was laughing at all of us from the mid 80's to the late 90's.

Oh, let's not forget about microsoft - lol, and you say you can't successfully market cap again and again - too funny

Again, marketing - all consumers are suckers, you, me and everyone else. You have bought into pentax, so the next new pentax lens that comes out we will be all over it just as when the new iphone comes out iphone users will be all over that...

BTW: me not an iphone hater, I have one myself...

---

jsherman999 · 10-05-2011, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by joe.penn

Actually you can successfully market crap over and over, GM and Ford was laughing at all of us from the mid 80's to the late 90's.

Think that was one of the worst periods for those companies with regards to market share loss to toyota & Honda - despite their marketing efforts.

Quote:

Oh, let's not forget about microsoft - lol, and you say you can't successfully market cap again and again - too funny

You have to acknowledge some monopolistic effects with Microsoft. For almost two decades it was almost hard to buy a 'PC' without windows or DOS already installed. I don't think you can say consumer marketing was responsible for that.

Eagle_Friends · 10-05-2011, 10:08 PM

RIP Steve

Jasvox · 10-05-2011, 10:31 PM

Pentax News and Rumors.

Jason

Tonto · 10-06-2011, 12:01 AM

My take on success of iPhone and other smart phones as cameras- 3G, it wasn't untill 3G and Social networks that people no longer cared so much for printing photos as easily sharing online in one step, that is what the camera phone brought to the table as soon as the camera was "good enough".

Photographers I feel will always have a dedicated camera/cameras with lenses who go out specifically to take photos. But for the mass populance who want a quick photo/video of their kid doing something doing something funny/spontaneous and being able to capture and share immediately smartphones with cameras are a no-brainer.

**Rondec** · 10-06-2011, 04:02 AM

I have felt for a long time that point and shoots would eventually be squeezed out by good camera phones. The only thing point and shoots really do better at this point is have an optical zoom.

That said, I personally am unwilling to pay an extra 360 dollars a year to use a smart phone. I don't want a data plan, I would just like a "palm-like" device combined with a simple cell phone. The actual cost of these cameras way exceeds the cost of a point and shoot once you factor in the hidden data plan cost -- a cost that [I]never[I] goes away as long as you use your smart phone.

On the Steve Jobs subject, I do believe he will be missed. There are thousands of pieces of junk technology released every year. He had vision to see what things are worthwhile and how to make them truly work for the average consumer.

TaoMaas · 10-06-2011, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by ripit

Lastly, Putting a lens in front of it does not give as good of quality as a dedicated lens. It can be very good but a properly designed dedicated lens will always out perform.

Yes, a dedicated lens will almost always be better, but as you say, an add-on attachment can be very good. They're used all the time in video.

jogiba · 10-06-2011, 07:18 AM

The new state of the art in sensors and lenses will not kill P&S cameras but will kill the market for larger APS-C and FF cameras. The myriad of lenses coming out for m4/3rds are light years better than than APS-C lenses. The m4/3rds sensor is the sweet spot for stills and video were the lenses could be built more compact than APS-C lenses.

Image resolution :

Samyang 7.5 mm f/3.5 UMC Fish-eye MFT (m4/3rds :

Samyang 8 mm f/3.5 Aspherical IF MC Fish-eye (APS-C)

Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45 mm f/1.8:

Pentax smc FA 43 mm f/1.9 Limited:

Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 12 mm f/2.0 ED:

Pentax smc DA 15 mm f/4 ED AL Limited :

Panasonic Leica DG SUMMILUX 25 mm f/1.4 ASPH. (m4/3rds):

Pentax smc DA* 55 mm f/1.4 SDM:

Voigtlander Nokton 25 mm f/0.95 (m4/3rds) :

Pentax smc FA 35 mm f/2 AL:

jogiba · 10-06-2011, 07:49 AM

Three more :

Panasonic G 20 mm f/1.7 ASPH. (m4/3rds):

Pentax smc DA 21 mm f/3.2 AL Limited :

Panasonic G 14 mm f/2.5 ASPH.(m4/3rds) :

Kunzite · 10-06-2011, 08:30 AM

Source, please.

jogiba · 10-06-2011, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Source, please.

Lenses reviews - Lenstip.com

http://www.samyang.pl/product,179,category,5,samyang_75mm_1_35_umc_fisheye_mft

Kunzite · 10-06-2011, 09:27 AM

Thank you - I thought I recognize those charts, and the lower results for Pentax lenses

The thing is, even the excellent Pentax DA 70mm Limited barely got max ~45lpmm (center resolution, on the K10D); that would be kit-lens territory on m4/3. Should I believe the lovely Limited is a POS?

10-06-2011, 07:18 AM	#26
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	The new state of the art in sensors and lenses will not kill P&S cameras but will kill the market for larger APS-C and FF cameras. The myriad of lenses coming out for m4/3rds are light years better than than APS-C lenses. The m4/3rds sensor is the sweet spot for stills and video were the lenses could be built more compact than APS-C lenses. Image resolution : Samyang 7.5 mm f/3.5 UMC Fish-eye MFT (m4/3rds : Samyang 8 mm f/3.5 Aspherical IF MC Fish-eye (APS-C) Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45 mm f/1.8: Pentax smc FA 43 mm f/1.9 Limited: Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 12 mm f/2.0 ED: Pentax smc DA 15 mm f/4 ED AL Limited : Panasonic Leica DG SUMMILUX 25 mm f/1.4 ASPH. (m4/3rds): Pentax smc DA* 55 mm f/1.4 SDM: Voigtlander Nokton 25 mm f/0.95 (m4/3rds) : Pentax smc FA 35 mm f/2 AL: Last edited by jogiba; 10-06-2011 at 07:39 AM.

10-06-2011, 07:49 AM	#27
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Three more : Panasonic G 20 mm f/1.7 ASPH. (m4/3rds): Pentax smc DA 21 mm f/3.2 AL Limited : Panasonic G 14 mm f/2.5 ASPH.(m4/3rds) : Last edited by jogiba; 10-06-2011 at 07:54 AM.

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10-05-2011, 08:16 PM	#16
LFLee Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,292	I guess you guys are discussing this article? How smartphones are changing digital photography: Digital Photography Review "The enormous growth in popularity of smartphones in the past three years has had many consequences, some of which were in retrospect easy to predict, and some of which are not yet fully understood. This is true especially in the field of digital photography. Smartphone users, it appears, take a lot of photographs. The Apple iPhone 4 is currently the most popular 'camera' on Flickr.com, and millions of dollars are being made by mobile developers who can't create photo apps quickly enough to satisfy the demands of a new breed - 'serious' cameraphone photographers. "

10-05-2011, 08:43 PM	#17
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	Originally posted by jsherman999 Do you see a pattern here? What do you attribute it to, blind luck, again and again? Marketing (main key to success) and refinements of Japanese (near decade old at the time) hardware technology that was purchased by apple - the main innovation was in the op sys that the devices run and success of the apple store. The apple app store was nothing new, no new technology but a new concept where developers could develop the apps while apple markets them <- (Marketing) --

10-05-2011, 09:03 PM	#18
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by joe.penn Marketing (main key to success) and refinements of Japanese (near decade old at the time) hardware technology that was purchased by apple - the main innovation was in the op sys that the devices run and success of the apple store. The apple app store was nothing new, no new technology but a new concept where developers could develop the apps while apple markets them <- (Marketing) . Of course, marketing. But you can't successfully market crap again and again, especially when the level of competition out there is what it is. A company that truly has a better, more innovative product and can market it would eat your lunch. It's a combination of marketing + design + Vision (for lack of better term) that's truly innovative. It seems to me that Apple haters overstate the marketing, understate the design, and almost completely deny the Vision. .

10-05-2011, 09:14 PM	#19
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	Actually you can successfully market crap over and over, GM and Ford was laughing at all of us from the mid 80's to the late 90's. Oh, let's not forget about microsoft - lol, and you say you can't successfully market cap again and again - too funny Again, marketing - all consumers are suckers, you, me and everyone else. You have bought into pentax, so the next new pentax lens that comes out we will be all over it just as when the new iphone comes out iphone users will be all over that... BTW: me not an iphone hater, I have one myself... ---

10-05-2011, 09:51 PM	#20
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by joe.penn Actually you can successfully market crap over and over, GM and Ford was laughing at all of us from the mid 80's to the late 90's. Think that was one of the worst periods for those companies with regards to market share loss to toyota & Honda - despite their marketing efforts. Quote: Oh, let's not forget about microsoft - lol, and you say you can't successfully market cap again and again - too funny You have to acknowledge some monopolistic effects with Microsoft. For almost two decades it was almost hard to buy a 'PC' without windows or DOS already installed. I don't think you can say consumer marketing was responsible for that.

10-05-2011, 10:08 PM	#21
Eagle_Friends Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 971	RIP Steve

10-05-2011, 10:31 PM	#22
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	Pentax News and Rumors. Jason

10-06-2011, 12:01 AM	#23
Tonto Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Wellington Posts: 969	My take on success of iPhone and other smart phones as cameras- 3G, it wasn't untill 3G and Social networks that people no longer cared so much for printing photos as easily sharing online in one step, that is what the camera phone brought to the table as soon as the camera was "good enough". Photographers I feel will always have a dedicated camera/cameras with lenses who go out specifically to take photos. But for the mass populance who want a quick photo/video of their kid doing something doing something funny/spontaneous and being able to capture and share immediately smartphones with cameras are a no-brainer.

10-06-2011, 04:02 AM	#24
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I have felt for a long time that point and shoots would eventually be squeezed out by good camera phones. The only thing point and shoots really do better at this point is have an optical zoom. That said, I personally am unwilling to pay an extra 360 dollars a year to use a smart phone. I don't want a data plan, I would just like a "palm-like" device combined with a simple cell phone. The actual cost of these cameras way exceeds the cost of a point and shoot once you factor in the hidden data plan cost -- a cost that [I]never[I] goes away as long as you use your smart phone. On the Steve Jobs subject, I do believe he will be missed. There are thousands of pieces of junk technology released every year. He had vision to see what things are worthwhile and how to make them truly work for the average consumer.

10-06-2011, 05:47 AM	#25
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by ripit Lastly, Putting a lens in front of it does not give as good of quality as a dedicated lens. It can be very good but a properly designed dedicated lens will always out perform. Yes, a dedicated lens will almost always be better, but as you say, an add-on attachment can be very good. They're used all the time in video.

10-06-2011, 08:30 AM	#28
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Source, please.

10-06-2011, 08:38 AM	#29
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by Kunzite Source, please. Lenses reviews - Lenstip.com http://www.samyang.pl/product,179,category,5,samyang_75mm_1_35_umc_fisheye_mft

10-06-2011, 09:27 AM	#30
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Thank you - I thought I recognize those charts, and the lower results for Pentax lenses The thing is, even the excellent Pentax DA 70mm Limited barely got max ~45lpmm (center resolution, on the K10D); that would be kit-lens territory on m4/3. Should I believe the lovely Limited is a POS?