[Emacs]

Anyways - the D800 does seem to give the 645D a run for its money, but it doesn't reach or beat - and that extra bit (and lenses) may make the difference for MF shooters.

From what I have seen 645D shots look more like a FF on steroids, than a real MF. So, I would not be so sure about the lack of danger for 645D. Actually, I think Pentax must introduce new mirrorless mount for their next digital MF camerae, because I don't see a reason today for SLR MF:
1) They doesn't need rocket fast AF with these cameras, right?
2) They need very precise focusing, that only LV is able to provide
3) Landscape is a very common task for MF shooters, and getting rid of mirror will decrease flange distance and size of wide angle lenses (and design complexity for them: just see availability of D FA 25. And, by the way, this lens suffers from strong CA. Shorter flange distance should help to avoid such problems with less efforts).

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Last edited by Emacs; 03-19-2012 at 02:27 AM.

[JinDesu]

I agree a lot with the mirrorless MF for using LV focusing. It just seems natural for the shots that the 645D is meant for; however, I understand that a lotta people use monitor-liveview to do their shots with the 645D.

[Digitalis]

the D800 does seem to give the 645D a run for its money, but it doesn't reach or beat - and that extra bit (and lenses) may make the difference for MF shooters.

I think the primary attraction will be the larger sensor and the longer telephoto lenses compared to other players in the MFD market - the problem with leaf shutters is that they put some severe mechanical limitations on how fast longer lenses can be - the longest lens for the H system is a 300mm f/4.5 while pentax has the A* 645 600mm f/5.6 ED[IF] - I own one and I have been aching to try it out in the field on a 645D - though while carrying it, my back will be literally aching.

the D800 with a Nikkor 400mm f/2.8G ED VR with a 2X teleconverter gives you an image stabilised 800mm f/5.6 lens - with next to no degradation of image quality*. The closest you could get on the 645D would be by using the Pentax-67 M* 800mm f/6.7 ED - and now that I think about it, it would be very interesting to compare the nikkor and pentax super telephoto lenses. Since I own both lenses I mentioned it would be interesting to do a side by side comparison especially considering that the pentax lens is only a third of a stop slower than f/5.6 and is able to cover 67 format which is 4.3 times bigger than 35mm - so the pentax 645D would be making use of the sweet spot from the pentax super-telephoto.

P.S sorry for getting off topic, but I don't like to see a camera slandered for no good reason.

*well on the 12mp D3s I haven't been able to spot anything wrong with the image quality with a 2X teleconverter.

[Christine Tham]

That shot doesn't do anything for me, it is a rather lifeless portrayal of a wombat.

If you want a challenge try something like this:

I wasn't posting that shot as an example of photographic art, but it was an example of something the M9 would not be able to focus on (essentially the viewfinder will be almost completely dark).

In case you were wondering, all the shots I posted were examples of compositions that I would consider to be difficult, if not impossible to take on the M9. The first one will be blurry if there is any noticeable shutter lag - the second would be impossible without a decent continuous shooting rate, and the third is a shallow DOF shot of a moving object. Okay, the last one is not impossible on an M9, just difficult. On the NEX-5N such shots are easy with focus peaking, almost pedestrian - I'm not claiming any skill as a photographer here.

Your photo is nice - the closest I have would be this - not taken on a NEX-5N but a good old Pentax K-5 with A135mm and a Katz Eye:

[jogiba]

Also, I'm assuming those comparison shots are jpeg?
Until we get raw comparison, all arguments are pointless.

Nikon D800 Hands-on Preview: Digital Photography Review

click here for 1920x1200 image

[JinDesu]

1600 ISO is a bit unfair on that 645D =p

[jsherman999]

If you have never lost a shot due to shutter lag, and you have never used continuous mode, have you ever taken shots like these (all taken yesterday on the NEX-5N and M-mount lenses - I can MF on the NEX-5N faster than some DSLRs can AF!)

You missed focus on the two bird shots in that set. I think you may have missed focus slightly on the first otter shot as well.

.

[stanleyk]

Nikon D800 Hands-on Preview: Digital Photography Review

click here for 1920x1200 image

Gee, I was just about to cancel the D800 pre-order until I saw this. I keep going back and forth on it. I'm already getting the X Pro. What is it going to do that the D700 doesn't except for the extra 24MP? What do you think. It's highly unlikely I would ever print bigger than 12 X 18, unless I get a bigger printer. What do you think?

[jsherman999]

Gee, I was just about to cancel the D800 pre-order until I saw this. I keep going back and forth on it. I'm already getting the X Pro. What is it going to do that the D700 doesn't except for the extra 24MP? What do you think. It's highly unlikely I would ever print bigger than 12 X 18, unless I get a bigger printer. What do you think?

Stanley honestly I think you should skip the D800, concentrate on the D700 and X Pro, get to know and enjoy those cameras. I know you haven't even used the D700 up to it's full potential yet. Too many cameras, too much 'upgrade fever' isn't necessarily going to bring you any more enjoyment. Basically if you're questioning your want/need for the D800 (or any camera,) you should probably hold off, IMO.

[Digitalis]

Too many cameras, too much 'upgrade fever' isn't necessarily going to bring you any more enjoyment.

If you are happy with the camera you currently have why change it? unless you are in the cut-throat commercial photography market there is little point in getting the latest and greatest when you are only going to use it at less than its full capacity.

[rawr]

Nikon D800 Hands-on Preview: Digital Photography Review click here for 1920x1200 image

The NEX-7 has also been doing quite well amongst the high MP crowd, especially at detail handling.

Too many cameras, too much 'upgrade fever' isn't necessarily going to bring you any more enjoyment.

Indeed. I've found the more camera's I have, the less photography I do. I need to sell or give away some of my gear, I think.

[Emacs]

Gee, I was just about to cancel the D800 pre-order until I saw this. I keep going back and forth on it. I'm already getting the X Pro. What is it going to do that the D700 doesn't except for the extra 24MP? What do you think. It's highly unlikely I would ever print bigger than 12 X 18, unless I get a bigger printer. What do you think?

It looks like a nasty conclusion: it's 36Mp sensor vs 15Mp, so images should be downsampled when jerking on pixels, just like that:
5D3 vs D800: Comparing High ISO RAW [Page 1]: Canon EOS-1D / 1Ds / 5D Forum: Digital Photography Review
Another Nikon D700 vs. Nikon D800 high ISO comparison | Nikon Rumors
Although I suppose XPro-1 would be about the equal in noise and, possibly, Fuji will have better DR, but 36Mp should have better (much better, based on fuji sample shots) color resolution.
And, still, Fuji is just APS-C with not so great optics (they are just cheap $600 lenses, they are not particularly good) vs full frame Nikon.

[stanleyk]

Stanley honestly I think you should skip the D800, concentrate on the D700 and X Pro, get to know and enjoy those cameras. I know you haven't even used the D700 up to it's full potential yet. Too many cameras, too much 'upgrade fever' isn't necessarily going to bring you any more enjoyment. Basically if you're questioning your want/need for the D800 (or any camera,) you should probably hold off, IMO.

Thanks. That's exactly what I keep telling myself. I'm just a little burned because I bought the D700 last year. Not much you can do about that.

I think I'll hold off on the D800 until next year. I actually enjoyed using the D700 last week.

[stanleyk]

It looks like a nasty conclusion: it's 36Mp sensor vs 15Mp, so images should be downsampled when jerking on pixels, just like that:
5D3 vs D800: Comparing High ISO RAW [Page 1]: Canon EOS-1D / 1Ds / 5D Forum: Digital Photography Review
Another Nikon D700 vs. Nikon D800 high ISO comparison | Nikon Rumors
Although I suppose XPro-1 would be about the equal in noise and, possibly, Fuji will have better DR, but 36Mp should have better (much better, based on fuji sample shots) color resolution.
And, still, Fuji is just APS-C with not so great optics (they are just cheap $600 lenses, they are not particularly good) vs full frame Nikon.

Dude, the likelihood of me canceling the X Pro is less than 0. My favorite camera is the X100. I've never had a camera I enjoy as much as the X100.

[Emacs]

Dude, the likelihood of me canceling the X Pro is less than 0. My favorite camera is the X100. I've never had a camera I enjoy as much as the X100.

I understand this, mirrorless is fun to use unlike bulky DSLRs. I just trying to point a fact fuji could sacrifice some parameters in order to bring up high iso performance and (possibly) DR, and comparing 15Mp with 36Mp images both at pixel level is kind of pointless. Personally I'm waiting for DXOmark tests. Although I will stick with M10 when it's done anyway, enough crop for me