[eddie1960]

I'm in Digitalis camp, the potential for a true B/W sensor is huge in comparison to conversion process. If I had the money this would have moved to the top of my list

As it sits i'll have to stick to shooting b/w film on old RF's

[RonHendriks1966]

I'm in Digitalis camp, the potential for a true B/W sensor is huge in comparison to conversion process. If I had the money this would have moved to the top of my list

As it sits i'll have to stick to shooting b/w film on old RF's

Any idea if this is a difficult technic? Is this a new sensor? Or could Pentax do this and convert the 16 megapixel sensor from sony that is in K-5/K-01 into a monochrome sensor? I would like a black and white infra red camera.

[séamuis]

Take a look at the Samyang 35/1.4 and Distagon 35/1.4
They are huge and still inferior optically to lux 35 asph fle
Old lenses… They are soft wide open. And SLR's ones are still large compared to pre-ASPH leica counterparts. And sharp from wide open ASPH glass is still smaller than old soft SLR counterparts up to 50mm. That's it.

if the samyang is the best example you can give, your argument is all but worthless. and the Zeiss is designed around the large throat of modern SLR mounts, just the same. even the m42 zeiss ZS lenses are huge, much larger than they need to be. I know, I have one. but that doesn't mean it can't be built smaller. the only drawback is the retrofocus design. an aspect I've already said can't be helped in terms of wide angle, but they can still be made much smaller, and be a better comparison to rangefinder lenses. it can be done, and the performance optically of old lenses is of little relevance. you aren't getting my point, clearly. both examples may be manual focus, to skirt the whole modernization aspect, but they weren't designed to be any smaller. especially the samyang. these two were designed on the same basic oversized base. zeiss lenses are just big, period. but if they wanted them smaller they could be, especially closer to the 50mm range. there, manual focus lenses of the same design principal, i.e. the 50's and 60's (which is where leica is still sitting in terms of overall lens design from a mechanical standpoint) are of little difference in overall size. I've owned a few leica lenses, so I know first hand.

its unfair to compare, because its like comparing design principals from very different eras, and the glass inside is irrelevant in this comparison. its about the overall size here. full frame SLR lenses can be made MUCH smaller. small enough to severely mitigate the often touted size difference between SLR and rangefinder lenses, and thats just fact, because a lot of them used to be that small.

[eddie1960]

Any idea if this is a difficult technic? Is this a new sensor? Or could Pentax do this and convert the 16 megapixel sensor from sony that is in K-5/K-01 into a monochrome sensor? I would like a black and white infra red camera.

it's a different sensor Ron, I can't see a Pentax unit with a pure b/w sensor, but I could see a GXR mountor with one being viable

[Boris]

I think that on the average people won't need or won't get the idea of b/w only camera. However those who know the drill, so to speak, will certainly appreciate this introduction. I am extremely fascinated by the fact that this 18 MP camera does not suffer from loss of spatial resolution due to Bayer process (both in h/w and s/w). It is suddenly rather interesting to notice that Nikon introduced D800E for a reason...

[jsherman999]

It does seem like a neat idea in theory.

Problems may arise when folks try to demonstrate how this brings you anything better than a regular FF camera (or aps-c, m43) with the non-Leica images simply sharpened and desaturated/filtered, especially the 24 & 36MP sensors.

As digitalis points out, large prints from this camera using careful printing methods and paper will look great - almost nothing displayed at regular online sizes will look much different.

That's going to cause some tension in the fora

PS: and then there's the DR issue - you can't 'save' a blown highlight with this sensor. Once it's blown, it's blown, you don't have one of the other color channels coming to the rescue with some signal. So it will require real technique - not a bad thing, just pointing it out.
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[timh]

Unlike the Hermes thing, I see a use for this and if someone gave me one I'd definitely use it for a while before selling it for $$$$.

Aligning lens elements with sub-wavelength precision* isn't easy

Especially when it's being done by a team of elderly German engineers with tiny screwdrivers and diamond-encrusted jewellers loupes, so busy scoffing free company caviar that they only have time to work for around 15 minutes every day. That's how I imagine it is, anyway..

[Na Horuk]

Hm, can anyone explain why this camera would be in any way desirable, apart from the fancy brand? The example photos aren't any special, the post-processing will be limited. The only thing I see going for it might be relatively high ISO and sharpness, but even that is nothing to write home about.

[yusuf]

Certainly an innovative idea - credit goes to Leica. However, I wont buy it for $8K neither dpreview images look any special compared to what I shoot with my k-x.

[Boris]

Oh, I forgot to point out - the fact that the DPReview preview photos aren't so good does not necessarily mean that the camera isn't up to the task - more like the person hold it is...

[froeschle]

More pictures and reviews:
Leica M Monochrom
Henri - The Leica M Monochrom, M Monochrom in China
Leica M Monochrom Review

[eddie1960]

dpreview rarely has good examples of what a camera is capable of.
Steve huff wound off a couple of shots at the launch, certainly not a definitive test but the 6400 and 10000 iso look pretty impressive, though they are lw web resolution so not really a measure of performance. the real benefit will come in large scale prints and leica has also partnered with a fine art print house for proper baryta wet prints from the digital files which is pretty cool IMO
Still more money than i can afford, but it's the type of camera i could live with 1 lens 90% of the time. a nice 35 1.4 or 2.0 say.
the real issue comes in the price variance between shooting with this and say an m7 with b/w film . there is about a $6000 variance between the M7 and this. that's a fair bit of film and processing

[eddie1960]

More pictures and reviews:
Leica M Monochrom
Henri - The Leica M Monochrom, M Monochrom in China
Leica M Monochrom Review

those chinese images are pretty impressive

[Digitalis]

full frame SLR lenses can be made MUCH smaller. small enough to severely mitigate the often touted size difference between SLR and rangefinder lenses

If it could be done i'm sure it would have been done by now. Photographic optics have advanced considerably over the past twenty years, yet the flange distance, size of the lens mount* and the laws of physics are what limit any further reduction in lens size.

*hypothetically speaking: making the pentax K mount bigger by 10mm, and bringing the mount closer to the sensor would greatly assist the development of lenses with apertures of f/1 and faster, but as we all know that simply isn't going to happen.

[jsherman999]

I am sort of impressed by the noise pattern at ISO 10,000 in the Luminous Landscape's shots. Without chroma, that noise doesn't really look 'bad' when printed, and tends to clean up nicely with just a little NR + downsampling.

(Below is a 100% crop at ISO 10,000)