[ihasa]

Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here.

---

I did post a question in the Full Frame Thoughts... thread but it sank like a stone amidst the usual amiable back-slapping!

Noticing the price of used full frame cameras (e.g. the original 5d), and comments about using relatively inexpensive lenses on FF with good results, makes me wonder if there's a cheap way into the world of 35mm digital. With a fairly modest lens requirement, would it be possible to assemble a kit for less than a couple of grand? What's the best bang for the buck in FF land?

[ducdao]

Yes, it's possible. I got my 5D MKI for $700 them combined it with my existing Zeiss and Takumar lenses. If you need AF lens, I recommend the Canon 50/1.8, it looks like a crappy lens, all plastic but the optic is superb for a $100 lens.

Alternatively you can get a Nikon D700 which goes for about 1500 used but the problem with Nikon is they are less compatible with vintage lenses than the Canon.

[ihasa]

Do you get good results with the Taks on the 5d? Would be interested to see how they play together

[pinholecam]

I looked at 5D, 5DII, D700.
I really wanted to like any one of them, but they fell short here and there (which camera doesn't?)
Ended up they never formed a better system for me except for the DOF for FOV thing.

5D - old, mostly 2nd hand, price of a new K5; poorer AF, DR, ISO than K5. Bigger too.
5DII - more expensive than K5; poorer DR, same or poorer AF, Bigger. At its price, probably more worth it to invest a bit more on better lenses for a more complete/utilized system than rely on old MF takumars, so ends up it would be more expensive than originally intended.
D700 - pretty good overall. Good AF, Good ISO performance. But a bit lacking in megapix at 12mp for my bad habit of cropping photos. Poorer DR too. Big of course. Re-investment in lenses.

Maybe this equation will shift again as their prices change with time and the FF itch bites harder, but for me, not at this moment.

[the swede]

i just have to look at the Nikon lens line to see the way into FF..... 1.8G lenses.... Nikon is smart, they have been planning this for some years now.
You have the choice wether your in it for high spec APS-C or budget FF. The lenses are there. 1.8G line for the mass, 1.4G line for the pro's or just money spending people

well... thats just Nikon... Canon has some options to. At least, Nikon seems to have a clear strategy. Prepare the lenses, then get people over.

[top-quark]

Sony A850 and A900 seem to be fairly reasonable on the used market (a thousand quid or thereabouts - I see that we're talking a couple of grand in the same currency). They accept old Minolta lenses - not sure from how far back though.

[ducdao]

Do you get good results with the Taks on the 5d? Would be interested to see how they play together

I love the combination 5D+Tak, especially with the Super Takumar 85/1.8. Not all Takumars will fit the 5D due to the mirror issue but the ones that do, they are great.

See Compatibility list of M42 lenses on Canon EOS 5D dslr for full compatibility list.

Having a Canon allows you to use old MF lenses from Nikon and Contax CY as well. So it really opens up a new world. For $700 you can't really go wrong.

[dexmus]

I looked at 5D, 5DII, D700.
I really wanted to like any one of them, but they fell short here and there (which camera doesn't?)
Ended up they never formed a better system for me except for the DOF for FOV thing.

5D - old, mostly 2nd hand, price of a new K5; poorer AF, DR, ISO than K5. Bigger too.

I don't want to get into an argument here but I just want to let the OP know that those were not my observations about 5D. The AF on central point is much faster and much more accurate than k-5. High ISO is also cleaner than k-5. DxO Mark says 5D is half step ahead of K-5 at high ISO and in practice, the results look much better to me.
Old - yes, Bigger - yes, less DR - I would say yes based on DxO stats. But in practice, the overall rendering of 5D is so much better that I hardly noticed the low DR.

If you are looking for best bang for buck in FF under 1000, 5D is the way to go. If you have about 1600-1700 to spend, D700 is the way to go.

cheers,

Abhi

[ihasa]

Cheers abhi. I think factoring in the price and lens compatibility, 5d looks interesting. Not too worried whether it 'technically' beats the K5 on DR or not; really just interested in 'the full frame look'.

[digitalCG]

would it be possible to assemble a kit for less than a couple of grand? What's the best bang for the buck in FF land?

Easily! Best bang for buck undoubtedly the original 5D and adapting whatever lenses you have to hand - as long as you're happy shooting manual. Even if you're starting from scratch and want some AF lenses a 5D system for under 2K is well within reach.

If you're after a bit more bang than that, buy wisely and aren't bothered about reusing Pentax glass a decent D700 system (low-click body, used 50/1.8, 2xthird party 2.8 zooms and flash) can be had within that budget... trust me

[K-9]

Yes, it's possible. I got my 5D MKI for $700 them combined it with my existing Zeiss and Takumar lenses. If you need AF lens, I recommend the Canon 50/1.8, it looks like a crappy lens, all plastic but the optic is superb for a $100 lens.

Alternatively you can get a Nikon D700 which goes for about 1500 used but the problem with Nikon is they are less compatible with vintage lenses than the Canon.

$1500 is not the exactly the current going rate for the D700. Any like new bodies with low shutter counts are still fetching $1800-$1900 and new models $2000-$2200, as per ending ebay auctions in the past few days.

A 64,000 shutter counts sold for $1500
A 20,000 shutter count sold for $1600
A 3,000 shutter count sold for $1925
A 200 shutter count sold for $2000
New bodies are still getting $2200

[ducdao]

$1500 is not the exactly the current going rate for the D700. Any like new bodies with low shutter counts are still fetching $1800-$1900 and new models $2000-$2200, as per ending ebay auctions in the past few days.

A 64,000 shutter counts sold for $1500
A 20,000 shutter count sold for $1600
A 3,000 shutter count sold for $1925
A 200 shutter count sold for $2000
New bodies are still getting $2200

With luck one should still able to get a good one under 30K shutter count for $1500. My friend got one at that price last week. Granted you don't see that kind of deal everyday but it's not impossible. When you think the D800 is $3000 brand new, the D700 is poised to drop in price.

[Rude]

I shot with a K5 for over a year as my primary camera. Rented a 5D (original) to shoot a wedding and currently shoot with a D700.

5D - I don't care what measurement sites say about high ISO quality, the camera doesn't go over ISO 1600. I'd be shocked to see any real world use that showed it superior to the K5 in low light shooting. The camera is very basic, very easy to use. You can get good results, but I kept my K5 which was just so much more advanced, it didn't seem worth it to "downgrade" just to get full frame. You can shoot with older glass or f/4 L glass and get great results (1 or 2 lenses) for under $2K.

D700 - also a very simple/straightforward tool to use. However, the image quality was superior enough to get me to switch. Of course, I got mine at a great deal ($1,250) so for under 2K, I was able to use a 35-70 f/2.8 and a 50 f/1.4 for less than $2k. The improved autofocus was enough to justify, and the image quality was superior to what I had with the K5. Yes, also 12 MP like the 5D, but it's hard to explain why the image quality is so good. Nikon has a TON of used glass that is high-quality, including great manual focus stuff.

[RioRico]

Sony A850 and A900 seem to be fairly reasonable on the used market (a thousand quid or thereabouts - I see that we're talking a couple of grand in the same currency). They accept old Minolta lenses - not sure from how far back though.

The A in A850 and A900 stands for Alpha, the Minolta Maxxum mount (AF; register= 44.5mm).
The older M/MD mount (MF; register= 43.7mm) isn't compatible with Alpha, can only focus to infinity with an optical adapter.
Sony-Minolta Alpha register is just shorter than M42 and PK (register= 45.46mm); Pentax glass CAN be used on Alpha bodies.
Adapters cost US$3+ for M42 (Sony M42 adapt Alpha | eBay) and US$23+ for PK (Sony PK adapt Alpha | eBay). <-- click linx

[ihasa]

There would be a lot of stuff I'd miss, going for a 5d. I think I'll wait and watch on this one. Who knows the D600 might ratchet used D700/5D prices down even more when it comes out, or it might be cheap enough for me to stretch to. Who knows, even Pentax might bring out a reasonably priced FF... Time being, I'll continue loving my K7!