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06-11-2012, 04:32 PM   #1
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Macro enthusiast, Should I switch to canon?

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Hello there guys, I have a bit of a dilemma here, and i would like you opinions

I had the joy of obtaining my first DSLR camera about three years back, a Pentax K20D. Its a great camera and all, but being a beginner at the time, all i cared for where megapixels and "zoom". I am not very invested into the Pentax brand and so now that I am more "educated" regarding cameras, I have decided to study the market and brands before any further investment. My reasoning is, if I am going to jump ships, better now than once I am more invested into any brand. So i took a look around at the big two. Initially I was looking at Nikon, and then I stumbled upon the Canon mp-e 65 mm macro lens. This lens was very interesting to me, as I always liked looking at very small things, usually less than 5mm in length, yet I knew that even with a true macro lens, I would need to crop heavily to get the results I wanted. The mp-e 65mm however, changed things, it would not be necessary to crop unless I wanted to. So I "decided" I would jump ships, and began looking at the canon bodies. I was disappointed. I had grown quite found of the smallish size of the K20D, and those huge cameras, well they just could not do..... also i failed to find something to convince me that this was an upgrade, since most of the specs were not significantly better.

So what should I do? I really like the Pentax brand, especially the weather sealing an the systematically smaller cameras/lenses, but at the same time I'm dying for the canon mp-e 65

06-11-2012, 04:44 PM   #2
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Buying a used Canon body for a specialty lens like that isn't such a bad idea(also the tokina 11-16, Sigma 100-300/4 and video), if you like it so much, but there are Macro options to get you to 5x+ with Pentax (or any system for that matter) that won't cost as much as this lens. Maybe pickup a used T2i and flash it with Magic Lantern, if this lens is a must have.

Last edited by kenafein; 06-11-2012 at 04:50 PM.
06-11-2012, 05:38 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Buying a used Canon body for a specialty lens like that isn't such a bad idea
Agreed. While I don't have experience with this lens (or, for that matter, much experience with Canon), this does seem to be a unique offering.

QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
but there are Macro options to get you to 5x+ with Pentax (or any system for that matter) that won't cost as much as this lens.
Yes, but will any of them allow you to go from 1:1 to 5:1 as easily as the Canon? 5:1 is getting out there, regardless, so in part it depends on whether or not you really want to get into such extreme magnifications. Certainly worth having a look at what people here are doing with mainly inexpensive rigs:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/lens-clubs/143202-macro-any-means-necessary-club.html
06-11-2012, 06:07 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by baro-nite Quote
Yes, but will any of them allow you to go from 1:1 to 5:1 as easily as the Canon? 5:1 is getting out there, regardless, so in part it depends on whether or not you really want to get into such extreme magnifications. Certainly worth having a look at what people here are doing with mainly inexpensive rigs:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/lens-clubs/143202-macro-any-means-necessary-club.html
Certainly, if he really loves macro, this lens isn't so expensive, it's very convenient, and it is pretty unique.

06-11-2012, 06:22 PM   #5
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I recommend you ask the question on www.photomacrography.net :: Index which is a macro forum with a good focus on high magnification.

Here's a nice review of the physical attributes of the lens Canon MP-E 65mm 1-5x Macro Lens Review It is a manual, macro only lens - you can focus only on things at working distances between 41mm (5:1) 100mm (1:1).

This range of magnifications with a 45mm working distance can probably be met using a reversed 24mm lens on a bellows. If working distance is not a problem then microscope objectives and enlarger lenses will be useful.

A EOS->PK adapter can be fabricated from the EOS and PK ends of simple extension tubes if you want to use your Pentax camera with the Canon lens. A 10mm thick adapter would add a little magnification, resulting in something like 1.15x -> 5.15x.

Dave in Iowa
06-11-2012, 06:45 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
A EOS->PK adapter can be fabricated from the EOS and PK ends of simple extension tubes if you want to use your Pentax camera with the Canon lens. A 10mm thick adapter would add a little magnification, resulting in something like 1.15x -> 5.15x.
This sounds like THE budget solution. If shooting fairly extreme macro, loss of infinity focus is irrelevant, especially with this macro-only lens.

Another idea: I usually put my Schneider Betavaron 50-125/4-5.6 enlarger zoom onto a 16-35mm focusing helicoid for general use. On a 30-110mm M42 bellows, it's easily in the macro range of the MPE-65.
06-11-2012, 07:10 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteQuote:
Another idea: I usually put my Schneider Betavaron 50-125/4-5.6 enlarger zoom onto a 16-35mm focusing helicoid for general use. On a 30-110mm M42 bellows, it's easily in the macro range of the MPE-65.
Ya, I do that a lot too. Tuesdays and Saturdays.

But realistically, my favourite photo arts teacher used to say, "FInd the lens you love and buy the camera body that goes on it."

06-11-2012, 10:22 PM   #8
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Yes. If I had the money and still shot I'd have a canon 5d mkII and MPE
06-12-2012, 03:57 AM   #9
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Recently, I've been thinking of Pentax Q+K-mount adapter+100macro with an LED lamp.
5.5x magnification or DOF whichever way I need it.

Still needs proof of concept though.
Getting a Q once the price drops (expected soon)
06-12-2012, 05:12 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
A EOS->PK adapter can be fabricated from the EOS and PK ends of simple extension tubes if you want to use your Pentax camera with the Canon lens. A 10mm thick adapter would add a little magnification, resulting in something like 1.15x -> 5.15x.
Is that possible? I mean, how would one control the aperture this way?

QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
This sounds like THE budget solution. If shooting fairly extreme macro, loss of infinity focus is irrelevant, especially with this macro-only lens.
There is no loss of infinity focus in this case: the mp-e does not have infinity focus to begin with. you start at 1:1 magnification(about 4 inches focusing distance), and you can then gradually focus closer and closer until you get 5:1 magnification(about 1 inches focusing distance).

The thing is I'm not particularly tied to the pentax brand, but the more i look at canon, the more i like pentax

QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
Yes. If I had the money and still shot I'd have a canon 5d mkII and MPE
+1, used?
06-12-2012, 06:27 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxinator Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico:
This sounds like THE budget solution. If shooting fairly extreme macro, loss of infinity focus is irrelevant, especially with this macro-only lens.
There is no loss of infinity focus in this case: the mp-e does not have infinity focus to begin with.
That's just what I said.

About APS vs FF: The right gear depends on subject size, and desired detail. For many many many applications, APS macro is just fine. An FF macro setup will record *larger* subjects. An MF macro setup will record even larger subjects. For bigger yet, shoot macro with an 8x10in view cam.

But in any format, 1:1 is 1:1. With digital formats, compare pixel density, resolutions. At same magnification, a 24mpx APS sensor will capture more detail than a 24mpx FF sensor, which matches a 16mpx APS sensor (all else being equal). Merely going FF won't cure any macro problems -- might even make matters worse, due to the thinner DOF of longer larger-format lenses. Some folks like shooting macro with m4/3 because of thicker DOF with short lenses.
06-12-2012, 08:51 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Originally posted by pentaxinator*
Originally posted by RioRico:
This sounds like THE budget solution. If shooting fairly extreme macro, loss of infinity focus is irrelevant, especially with this macro-only lens.
There is no loss of infinity focus in this case: the mp-e does not have infinity focus to begin with.
That's just what I said.

About APS vs FF: The right gear depends on subject size, and desired detail. For many many many applications, APS macro is just fine. An FF macro setup will record *larger* subjects. An MF macro setup will record even larger subjects. For bigger yet, shoot macro with an 8x10in view cam.

But in any format, 1:1 is 1:1. With digital formats, compare pixel density, resolutions. At same magnification, a 24mpx APS sensor will capture more detail than a 24mpx FF sensor, which matches a 16mpx APS sensor (all else being equal). Merely going FF won't cure any macro problems -- might even make matters worse, due to the thinner DOF of longer larger-format lenses. Some folks like shooting macro with m4/3 because of thicker DOF with short lenses.
Sorry about that, I did not read it carefully enough. And by the way, I have no particular interest in full-frame cameras(althrought the big bright viewfinder might help with focusing), its just the lens itself. Its the only thing in canon that Pentax really does not have, and since its a niche lens....
06-12-2012, 09:38 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxinator Quote
I have no particular interest in full-frame cameras(althrought the big bright viewfinder might help with focusing), its just the lens itself. Its the only thing in canon that Pentax really does not have, and since its a niche lens....
I (hopefully) wasn't criticizing anyone's choice of FF for macro work, just saying that no format is magic. Maybe that lens IS magic and DOES deserve a good host camera -- which would be a new many-megapickle FF, in order to do the most with the lens. I don't know about EOS aperture control, nor whether a home-brew EOS-PK adapter would kill lens function. I just searched eBay and can't find any ready-made EOS-PK adapters of any sort. So maybe this lens NEEDS the latest+greatest Canon.

My view: If one already had a Canon system and wanted this niche lens, great! But should an existing Pentax system be dumped just to buy this lens? I wouldn't. Maybe its work can be done for much less money with a Schneider Betavaron on bellows on a K5. Either way, going past 1:1 pretty much rules out handheld work. At least, almost everything I've shot handheld at 2:1 or 3:1 rather sucks.

Last edited by RioRico; 06-12-2012 at 09:43 AM.
06-12-2012, 09:51 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxinator Quote
Is that possible? I mean, how would one control the aperture this way?
Awww, heck! No aperture ring on the MP-E 65! So a dumb EOS-PK adapter won't work!

Dave in Iowa

PS: I include the following only because I'd already done the work & wanted to record it as it might be useful to someone But if you want to make an EOS->PK adapter here's some useful links. The lens end of the EOS tubes should screw onto the camera end of the PK tubes. If, for some strange reason, the manufacturer used different threads for the two tube types you'd have to epoxy the ends together.

Canon - $8 - Macro Extension Tube Ring for CANON EOS EF DSLR & SLR | eBay

Pentax - $8 - Macro Extension Tube Ring Pentax K10D K20D K110D K100D | eBay

These tubes are from the same supplier & look like they are from the same mfg. (I'd look further to find a pentax set with a shiny camera end - or sand the paint off the one shown).

Last edited by newarts; 06-12-2012 at 10:08 AM.
06-12-2012, 10:38 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
I (hopefully) wasn't criticizing anyone's choice of FF for macro work, just saying that no format is magic. Maybe that lens IS magic and DOES deserve a good host camera -- which would be a new many-megapickle FF, in order to do the most with the lens. I don't know about EOS aperture control, nor whether a home-brew EOS-PK adapter would kill lens function. I just searched eBay and can't find any ready-made EOS-PK adapters of any sort. So maybe this lens NEEDS the latest+greatest Canon.

My view: If one already had a Canon system and wanted this niche lens, great! But should an existing Pentax system be dumped just to buy this lens? I wouldn't. Maybe its work can be done for much less money with a Schneider Betavaron on bellows on a K5. Either way, going past 1:1 pretty much rules out handheld work. At least, almost everything I've shot handheld at 2:1 or 3:1 rather sucks.

Which is why i specified i'm not very invested into the Pentax brand, switching would not be so much of a pain(I have two sigma lenses, and either them or I are not top notch(sharpness issues)). I don't doubt there are better Pentax lenses, I just want to have a good perspective on what either brand can offer. Pentax's flash system is non existent for example. Also canon has those long telephotos..... But to tell the truth the more I look at canon the more I like Pentax
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