Olympus - From Bad to Worse...

Laurentiu Cristofor · 08-12-2012, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

I'm not sure anyone would really want the camera side as they have nothing exceptional like the K-mount.

There is nothing exceptional about the K mount. Its market is smaller than the MFT market. And in the MFT market, Olympus offers excellent optical designs as well as what seems to be one of the best implementations of CDAF to date. Their image stabilization is very competent too. I see lots of interest in their camera division just for acquiring the patents that cover all this work. I can see lots of companies interested in their camera division. Electronic companies are lacking the know-how for building great optics - that is why each of them is partnered with a German company: Sony/Zeiss, Panasonic/Leica, Samsung/Schneider - getting the know-how of a company like Olympus would be beneficial to any of them. Sony appears interested in investing in Olympus, as the article reports, so let's postpone the schadenfreude until something bad actually happens.

eddie1960 · 08-12-2012, 01:40 PM

oly cameras have struggled for years , i wouldn't be surprised to see what likely caused the mess in the first place disappear. MFT is not unique to oly and would continue. it's the medical that has value not the photo
i imagine they will end up split up, whether someone decides to keep the camera brand afloat or just buy the technology is another thing

**Rondec** · 08-12-2012, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

There is nothing exceptional about the K mount. Its market is smaller than the MFT market. And in the MFT market, Olympus offers excellent optical designs as well as what seems to be one of the best implementations of CDAF to date. Their image stabilization is very competent too. I see lots of interest in their camera division just for acquiring the patents that cover all this work. I can see lots of companies interested in their camera division. Electronic companies are lacking the know-how for building great optics - that is why each of them is partnered with a German company: Sony/Zeiss, Panasonic/Leica, Samsung/Schneider - getting the know-how of a company like Olympus would be beneficial to any of them. Sony appears interested in investing in Olympus, as the article reports, so let's postpone the schadenfreude until something bad actually happens.

Sony doesn't seem to be in great shape right now to invest in anybody.

I think Panasonic is the best odds -- Olympus and Panasonic together have great optics that cover the spectrum. Odds would be though that divisions would be split up, Olympus medical going somewhere else and the camera division being absorbed into Panasonic, with Olympus cameras being phased out in favor of the Panasonic name. Certainly it would be for patents and things like that. Olympus camera divison lost 170 million dollars last year and hasn't made money for a long time, despite having pretty decent sales, particularly in Japan.

RonHendriks1966 · 08-12-2012, 01:45 PM

The company most likely to be interested in getting the Olympus camera division is JVC. They get a full cameraline at once. The only real problem might be getting the rights. No idea wheater Panasonic could prevent JVC from coming into the MFT for cheap.

eddie1960 · 08-12-2012, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

Olympus camera divison lost 170 million dollars last year and hasn't made money for a long time, despite having pretty decent sales, particularly in Japan.

this is the major issue for them most of the financial scandal comes from covering up these kinds of losses.

too bad really recently they seem to be hitting the right note, but you need to do that with profit to stay around

Sony is in deep sh*t themselves, and are struggling to return to profit

Panasonic also has had a rough time lately but is still in a position to absorb the cameras

RonHendriks1966 · 08-12-2012, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

The company most likely to be interested in getting the Olympus camera division is JVC. They get a full cameraline at once. The only real problem might be getting the rights. No idea wheater Panasonic could prevent JVC from coming into the MFT for cheap.

I spook to soon. Panasonic is the owner of JVC

Medium FormatPro · 08-12-2012, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Sony/Zeiss, Panasonic/Leica, Samsung/Schneider

I'm not sure if they'll have physical model representations there at Photokina, but... Look for more lens' for Pentax soon; catered a bit more towards higher end users that'll cost a bit more money - than even the highest costing Pentax lens. Both Zeiss and Schneider will be coming out with completely new run lens' soon; unfortunaely one of them will also most likely cost 4k++

Laurentiu Cristofor · 08-12-2012, 09:58 PM

Quote:

The Imaging Division sold less cameras mainly because of the shrinking compact camera market. The good news is that Micro Four Thirds sales increased thanks to the Olympus E-M5!

Olympus Q1 report: compact camera market shrinks. Mirrorless sales doing well. | 43 Rumors

From the report:

Quote:

Under the shrinking of digital camera market, especially the market of low-end compact cameras, net sales and operating income decreased
Mirrorless SLR, centering on OM-D, sold well both in Japan and overseas (sales volume: +11%; net sales: +50%.)

pingflood · 08-12-2012, 11:49 PM

Yeah, with the M43 stuff doing so well right now I don't think the Olympus mirrorless segment will just disappear; if nothing else someone will buy it. Seems like they still cannot keep up with demand for the E-M5. And I am betting the 75/1.8 as expensive as it is will sell like crazy.

eddie1960 · 08-13-2012, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

I spook to soon. Panasonic is the owner of JVC

They used to own at one point about 49%, but no longer. the company is now aligned with Kenwood
Even when they were aligned they operated independent of Matsushita, and were a pretty fierce Panasonic competitor

Quote:

In December 2006, Matsushita entered talks with Kenwood and Cerberus Capital Management to sell its stake in JVC.[2]

In 2007, Victor Company of Japan Ltd confirmed a strategic capital alliance with Kenwood and SPARKX Investment, resulting in Matsushita's holding being reduced to approximately 37%.[3]

In 2008, Matsushita (Panasonic) agreed to spin off the company and merge it with Kenwood Electronics, creating JVC Kenwood Holdings on October 1, 2008

**Rondec** · 08-13-2012, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Olympus Q1 report: compact camera market shrinks. Mirrorless sales doing well. | 43 Rumors

From the report:

The odd thing to me is that if Olympus is selling adequate numbers of cameras (which I take it they are), then either they need to reduce expenses (lay off employees, spend less on R and D) or price their cameras higher in order to compete. I hate to see them go away. I think they have a line up of cameras that is excellent and very different from your standard Canon/Nikon fare.

eddie1960 · 08-13-2012, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

The odd thing to me is that if Olympus is selling adequate numbers of cameras (which I take it they are), then either they need to reduce expenses (lay off employees, spend less on R and D) or price their cameras higher in order to compete. I hate to see them go away. I think they have a line up of cameras that is excellent and very different from your standard Canon/Nikon fare.

Olympus has struggled with this since film days when they scrapped SLR as they had no AF system developed for it and went with P&S entirely.
I think the most recent m4/3 product definitely hit's a sweet spot for them, but if the OMD for instance cost what a Fuji Xpro1 does it's #'s would decline massively i think.
the big issue is they seem to want to be the price leader at a feature content level (the opening price stuff is sooo cheap for instance i wonder how after allowing for profit for the dealers Oly can hope to recover costs)
I imagine the camera division will get gobbled up by someone but what it looks like after that who knows?

RonHendriks1966 · 08-13-2012, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

They used to own at one point about 49%, but no longer. the company is now aligned with Kenwood
Even when they were aligned they operated independent of Matsushita, and were a pretty fierce Panasonic competitor

In that case I'm back with my JVC would be a good owner for the Olympus camera division. The problem is that they produce to many of the diferent camera types and you can still find new (old stock) E-PL1 camera's.

eddie1960 · 08-13-2012, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

In that case I'm back with my JVC would be a good owner for the Olympus camera division. The problem is that they produce to many of the diferent camera types and you can still find new (old stock) E-PL1 camera's.

the new old stock is a big issue, it show's they have overproduced. Also explains why they lose money in the camera division
JVC really isn't that big, much smaller than Sony/Panasonic/Ricoh/Canon/Nikon. So i'm not sure they would have the financial might to make Oly cameras a profitable division (and their own forays into Digital still were pretty miserable for the most part)
they do make pretty decent Video cameras though

RonHendriks1966 · 08-13-2012, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

JVC really isn't that big, much smaller than Sony/Panasonic/Ricoh/Canon/Nikon. So i'm not sure they would have the financial might to make Oly cameras a profitable division (and their own forays into Digital still were pretty miserable for the most part) they do make pretty decent Video cameras though

I looked into that and it is a small company. On the other hand that would mean that a camera division would make a great asset for them as long as they can manage it and turn it into a lean and mean company. Ditch the SLR and cheap compact. Focus on Pen, OM-D and for compact on the traveller and tough series. That could work very well. Focussed on customers in the midlevel consumerrange and family.

08-12-2012, 01:45 PM	#19
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	JVC The company most likely to be interested in getting the Olympus camera division is JVC. They get a full cameraline at once. The only real problem might be getting the rights. No idea wheater Panasonic could prevent JVC from coming into the MFT for cheap.

08-12-2012, 09:58 PM	#23
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Quote: The Imaging Division sold less cameras mainly because of the shrinking compact camera market. The good news is that Micro Four Thirds sales increased thanks to the Olympus E-M5! Olympus Q1 report: compact camera market shrinks. Mirrorless sales doing well. \| 43 Rumors From the report: Quote: Under the shrinking of digital camera market, especially the market of low-end compact cameras, net sales and operating income decreased Mirrorless SLR, centering on OM-D, sold well both in Japan and overseas (sales volume: +11%; net sales: +50%.)

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08-12-2012, 01:18 PM	#16
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by LaurenOE I'm not sure anyone would really want the camera side as they have nothing exceptional like the K-mount. There is nothing exceptional about the K mount. Its market is smaller than the MFT market. And in the MFT market, Olympus offers excellent optical designs as well as what seems to be one of the best implementations of CDAF to date. Their image stabilization is very competent too. I see lots of interest in their camera division just for acquiring the patents that cover all this work. I can see lots of companies interested in their camera division. Electronic companies are lacking the know-how for building great optics - that is why each of them is partnered with a German company: Sony/Zeiss, Panasonic/Leica, Samsung/Schneider - getting the know-how of a company like Olympus would be beneficial to any of them. Sony appears interested in investing in Olympus, as the article reports, so let's postpone the schadenfreude until something bad actually happens.

08-12-2012, 01:40 PM	#17
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	oly cameras have struggled for years , i wouldn't be surprised to see what likely caused the mess in the first place disappear. MFT is not unique to oly and would continue. it's the medical that has value not the photo i imagine they will end up split up, whether someone decides to keep the camera brand afloat or just buy the technology is another thing

08-12-2012, 01:41 PM	#18
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor There is nothing exceptional about the K mount. Its market is smaller than the MFT market. And in the MFT market, Olympus offers excellent optical designs as well as what seems to be one of the best implementations of CDAF to date. Their image stabilization is very competent too. I see lots of interest in their camera division just for acquiring the patents that cover all this work. I can see lots of companies interested in their camera division. Electronic companies are lacking the know-how for building great optics - that is why each of them is partnered with a German company: Sony/Zeiss, Panasonic/Leica, Samsung/Schneider - getting the know-how of a company like Olympus would be beneficial to any of them. Sony appears interested in investing in Olympus, as the article reports, so let's postpone the schadenfreude until something bad actually happens. Sony doesn't seem to be in great shape right now to invest in anybody. I think Panasonic is the best odds -- Olympus and Panasonic together have great optics that cover the spectrum. Odds would be though that divisions would be split up, Olympus medical going somewhere else and the camera division being absorbed into Panasonic, with Olympus cameras being phased out in favor of the Panasonic name. Certainly it would be for patents and things like that. Olympus camera divison lost 170 million dollars last year and hasn't made money for a long time, despite having pretty decent sales, particularly in Japan.

08-12-2012, 01:48 PM	#20
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Rondec Olympus camera divison lost 170 million dollars last year and hasn't made money for a long time, despite having pretty decent sales, particularly in Japan. this is the major issue for them most of the financial scandal comes from covering up these kinds of losses. too bad really recently they seem to be hitting the right note, but you need to do that with profit to stay around Sony is in deep sh*t themselves, and are struggling to return to profit Panasonic also has had a rough time lately but is still in a position to absorb the cameras

08-12-2012, 01:52 PM	#21
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 The company most likely to be interested in getting the Olympus camera division is JVC. They get a full cameraline at once. The only real problem might be getting the rights. No idea wheater Panasonic could prevent JVC from coming into the MFT for cheap. I spook to soon. Panasonic is the owner of JVC

08-12-2012, 01:52 PM	#22
Medium FormatPro Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh Photos: Albums Posts: 1,668	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Sony/Zeiss, Panasonic/Leica, Samsung/Schneider I'm not sure if they'll have physical model representations there at Photokina, but... Look for more lens' for Pentax soon; catered a bit more towards higher end users that'll cost a bit more money - than even the highest costing Pentax lens. Both Zeiss and Schneider will be coming out with completely new run lens' soon; unfortunaely one of them will also most likely cost 4k++

08-12-2012, 11:49 PM	#24
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Yeah, with the M43 stuff doing so well right now I don't think the Olympus mirrorless segment will just disappear; if nothing else someone will buy it. Seems like they still cannot keep up with demand for the E-M5. And I am betting the 75/1.8 as expensive as it is will sell like crazy.

08-13-2012, 05:16 AM	#25
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 I spook to soon. Panasonic is the owner of JVC They used to own at one point about 49%, but no longer. the company is now aligned with Kenwood Even when they were aligned they operated independent of Matsushita, and were a pretty fierce Panasonic competitor Quote: In December 2006, Matsushita entered talks with Kenwood and Cerberus Capital Management to sell its stake in JVC.[2] In 2007, Victor Company of Japan Ltd confirmed a strategic capital alliance with Kenwood and SPARKX Investment, resulting in Matsushita's holding being reduced to approximately 37%.[3] In 2008, Matsushita (Panasonic) agreed to spin off the company and merge it with Kenwood Electronics, creating JVC Kenwood Holdings on October 1, 2008

08-13-2012, 07:14 AM	#26
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Olympus Q1 report: compact camera market shrinks. Mirrorless sales doing well. \| 43 Rumors From the report: The odd thing to me is that if Olympus is selling adequate numbers of cameras (which I take it they are), then either they need to reduce expenses (lay off employees, spend less on R and D) or price their cameras higher in order to compete. I hate to see them go away. I think they have a line up of cameras that is excellent and very different from your standard Canon/Nikon fare.

08-13-2012, 07:46 AM	#27
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Rondec The odd thing to me is that if Olympus is selling adequate numbers of cameras (which I take it they are), then either they need to reduce expenses (lay off employees, spend less on R and D) or price their cameras higher in order to compete. I hate to see them go away. I think they have a line up of cameras that is excellent and very different from your standard Canon/Nikon fare. Olympus has struggled with this since film days when they scrapped SLR as they had no AF system developed for it and went with P&S entirely. I think the most recent m4/3 product definitely hit's a sweet spot for them, but if the OMD for instance cost what a Fuji Xpro1 does it's #'s would decline massively i think. the big issue is they seem to want to be the price leader at a feature content level (the opening price stuff is sooo cheap for instance i wonder how after allowing for profit for the dealers Oly can hope to recover costs) I imagine the camera division will get gobbled up by someone but what it looks like after that who knows?

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08-13-2012, 07:56 AM	#28
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by eddie1960 They used to own at one point about 49%, but no longer. the company is now aligned with Kenwood Even when they were aligned they operated independent of Matsushita, and were a pretty fierce Panasonic competitor In that case I'm back with my JVC would be a good owner for the Olympus camera division. The problem is that they produce to many of the diferent camera types and you can still find new (old stock) E-PL1 camera's.

08-13-2012, 07:59 AM	#29
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 In that case I'm back with my JVC would be a good owner for the Olympus camera division. The problem is that they produce to many of the diferent camera types and you can still find new (old stock) E-PL1 camera's. the new old stock is a big issue, it show's they have overproduced. Also explains why they lose money in the camera division JVC really isn't that big, much smaller than Sony/Panasonic/Ricoh/Canon/Nikon. So i'm not sure they would have the financial might to make Oly cameras a profitable division (and their own forays into Digital still were pretty miserable for the most part) they do make pretty decent Video cameras though

08-13-2012, 08:51 AM	#30
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by eddie1960 JVC really isn't that big, much smaller than Sony/Panasonic/Ricoh/Canon/Nikon. So i'm not sure they would have the financial might to make Oly cameras a profitable division (and their own forays into Digital still were pretty miserable for the most part) they do make pretty decent Video cameras though I looked into that and it is a small company. On the other hand that would mean that a camera division would make a great asset for them as long as they can manage it and turn it into a lean and mean company. Ditch the SLR and cheap compact. Focus on Pen, OM-D and for compact on the traveller and tough series. That could work very well. Focussed on customers in the midlevel consumerrange and family.