[audiobomber]

You made a very specific claim about Pentax sales, which you made up on the spot. You have no idea what Pentax sales are under Ricoh, nor how they compare to Pentax sales under Hoya or previously under Pentax.

[nosnoop]

Your pronouncement on sales is hard to believe. Where are the sales figures to back this up?

You made a very specific claim about Pentax sales, which you made up on the spot. You have no idea what Pentax sales are under Ricoh, nor how they compare to Pentax sales under Hoya or previously under Pentax.

I have been tracking BCNRanking for Japanese sales for many years.
I can still remember the heyday of K10D/K100D when Pentax was a solid #3. Then it went through a low period of K20D/K200D, but follow ups like K-m, K-x were hits. There was frequently a Pentax model in the top 10 or close to top 10 in the weekly/monthly sales chart; and you could count on the yearly sales chart having at least one Pentax in the top 10.

But things are not pretty this year.
In the month of September, there were no Pentax model in the top 20; actually not even in the top 30.
The top selling Pentax was Q, would you believe it?..... at #39.

The top selling K-30 configuration was at #74, and this is frankly shocking for a model which was released in Japan just 3 months prior in June.
This is a position I would expect for a going-to-be-discontinued 2 year old camera, not a brand new 3 months old model!
And GXR is selling better than K-5; while both were outside the top 100.

And the Amazon best seller list, admittedly not the most accurate chart, do give us an indication that the dire situation is not limited to Japan.

So yeah, this is the lowest point in terms of sales since the release of K100D 6 years ago.

How was Photokina disappointing? The K-30 was released shortly before, and it is superior by far to anything in its price range. The K-5 II improves on an already good K-5.

But that's the problem. K-30 is a very good camera on paper, but it is not capturing the imagination of the public. Not sure what the main reason is, but it is not selling in Japan.
As you know from the interview, the domestic market is the most important market for Pentax.

Pentax really need a good selling model to get out of the current slump.
And after Photokina, I just can't see how things can turn around any time soon, hence my disappointments.

The purchase by Ricoh is an entirely different proposition, their expressed intention is to double the sales. To suggest they may dump the program in the foreseeable future is ridiculous, they're just getting started. When you look at the map showing where Pentax is not currently marketed, I expect that doubling the business is a realistic target. The main point is, Ricoh is in the camera business and wants to go deeper into the camera business, with Pentax is their vehicle. I have great optimism about this, and can't see any justification for sad sack posts like yours.

As a Pentax user myself, I wish you were right. I really do.
But we should also be aware of the reality facing Pentax right now. You may call it a "sad sack post", but I call it a reality check.
The sales figures are real.

Let's put it this way. Things cannot continue at current state. Pentax is a distant #6 at this point, they have very little presence in both the DSLR and the mirrorless market segments in terms of sales.
They really need a turn around, as Ricoh is running a business too. At this point, I can't see where this would come from; and I honestly can't be optimistic until I see the light.

[top-quark]

If you want to shoot video, a mirror / prism DSLR is not a good tool for the job.

I've not used a K-30, but I have a K-5 and it is bloody awful. I don't doubt that a D7000 will be as bad. Mirror goes up, so you're left with live view. DSLRs are not designed to be used at arm's length. You can't change exposure parameters while the video is shooting (meaning blown highlights / lost shadows when you pan). CDAF is slow, since the system is designed for phase detection, and may not work at all in poor light. You probably won't be pleased with the results.

If you want the DSLR form factor, Sony SLTs are a much better bet. Full-time PDAF and an electronic viewfinder will make things a lot better. Some of their lenses are even designed for taking video. Otherwise, most mirrorless cameras do good video these days. Sony and Panasonic seem to put the most effort into their video capabilities.

Would the upcoming NEX 6 fit into your budget? The power zoom that it will ship with is designed for making movies as well as taking stills.

[Medium FormatPro]

People don't even know the brand anymore if you mention the name. It's a sad state and I couldn't even guess to say where the Pentax brand will be in 3 years. It's not sad sack posts. It's being realistic

I run into the same issue myself. People actually clearly recognise my three main names (Leica, Hasselblad, and Sigma) more than the Pentax name. And looking into the other posts a bit more; yes look at Pentax's rankings in any area; behind companies such as Olympus, even Panasonic.

The crystal ball into the future... Penta will need to get their name out there in a much needed major way. Release all kinds of lens (including a lot of FA's), all types of accessories (especially lighting/flash), and also sincerely try to get more third party items out there. And they have less than three years to be able to do so - any realistic business model would clearly show that. If they either; are not able to or do not want to - then Pentax will have very much fallen by the wayside and not much will be left in less than three years.

Again, take a look at what most of the other companies have done over the last year or so. Then Pentax has the K-01, the K30, a bridge camera, a new version of a Q, and then two new versions of a K5. Within the next two Pentax will be needing no less than three new major developments in camera bodies outside what has alreadly been mentioned.

[audiobomber]

Pentax just needs some more models to up the game, and better marketing. These things are easily achievable with Ricoh backing. Introduce an entry-level K-300, a clever Ricoh/Pentax MILC and K-3 (pro-level APS-C to lure K-5 upgraders) at CP+ in February, and FF down the road, Pentax will have clear sailing.

[nosnoop]

Pentax just needs some more models to up the game, and better marketing. These things are easily achievable with Ricoh backing. Introduce an entry-level K-300, a clever Ricoh/Pentax MILC and K-3 (pro-level APS-C to lure K-5 upgraders) at CP+ in February, and FF down the road, Pentax will have clear sailing.

This is our typical wish list. And didn't we go through all the excitement before Photokina?
So should OP make a decision based on facts, or based on our wish list?

[Navmaxlp]

This is exactly the kind of discussion I was looking for. The stability of the system is paramount. I know new bodies will come and go and I'll be able to upgrade. The thing keeping me from buying into the Pentax system is the questionable future. I don't have the ability to buy in to a system and eat the cost if the company goes under or the system becomes unsupported. I know there is the ability to sell equipment however, how likely will it be that I can sell equipment after a system goes down? Much like stocks and bonds, the sale price, after the fact, is likely to be low. I can't rationalize taking a loss on such expensive equipment for a hobby when I could be spending the money on my wife or children. Still trying to figure all of this out.

On the topic of video and using a DSLR. While I am interested in using the camera for video purposes, I am primarily interested in a camera for stills. The HD video with great glass is just a bonus for me and a way to save money on buying a separate video camera. In fact, I already have an entry level HD video camera that I now use for filming her dance shows. The new camera would be used in conjunction with my video camera for a more interesting presentation providing multiple different angles of view.

[audiobomber]

This is our typical wish list. And didn't we go through all the excitement before Photokina?
So should OP make a decision based on facts, or based on our wish list?

I never bought into the FF hype before Photokina. But right now, Pentax Ricoh is clearly telling us where they're going. There are several interviews available online that indicate the direction. From an interview with Toshiyuki Kitazawa, Pentax Head of Business Development:

"We must develop a successor of K-5II as well as updating line-up. Our long term strategy is towards FF while short term strategy is increasing line-up in APS-C segment."

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/201538-dc-watch-interv...velopment.html

[dylansalt]

Most "affordable" dslr system is Canon as thousands around the world have bought into this brand thus creating a very liquid affordable 2nd (very good condition) cameras, lenses and accessories.

The second largest dslr system is obviously Nikon

Both these systems have extensive networks and pro presence

The 3rd dslr system is Sony and arguably has overshadowed Pentax in user presence.

Then you have the 4/3 systems to consider where Pentax simply does not feature.

[audiobomber]

Most "affordable" dslr system is Canon as thousands around the world have bought into this brand thus creating a very liquid affordable 2nd (very good condition) cameras, lenses and accessories.

The second largest dslr system is obviously Nikon

Both these systems have extensive networks and pro presence

The 3rd dslr system is Sony and arguably has overshadowed Pentax in user presence.

Then you have the 4/3 systems to consider where Pentax simply does not feature.

I wouldn't trade my Pentax system for any of those. Just because something is most common doesn't mean it's the best. Just listen to the most popular music for proof.

[Navmaxlp]

This morning I went to semi-local camera store (little over an hour away) as they are the only place even remotely close to me that carries Pentax brand cameras. Pentax had little presence in the store. A small nook on the shelf. They did have a beautiful 645 in a maroon color that was prominently displayed. Nikon took up most of the real estate with Canon just slightly less.

I Looked at the D7000 and the K-30. Sadly, it did little to help me decide. I walked in almost sure the D7000 was the right camera. Then I picked up the K-30. Man that thing just felt right in my hands. Like a glove. The D7000 seemed a bit large for my purposes. Packed with extras to be sure but, a little over sized. I noticed that comparatively, the K-30 looked a little low end in it's finish. It looked more like what I expect a bridge camera would look like. The D7000 looked as you would expect a Nikon would look. I'm obviously not buying a camera for looks but, I did notice it.

One thing i did notice was, when asked about Pentax and it's market presence, the store owner was quick to defend Pentax and it's purchase by Ricoh. The sales lady also indicated to me that one of the professional photographers that works there recently switched from Nikon to Pentax. This intrigued me. To me it tells me Pentax is on the rise among those "in the know".

So in the end, I went in leaning heavily towards Nikon and left quite the opposite. Crunch time is coming however and I'll need to make a decision. Still not sure what that decision is going to be though.

[top-quark]

Hate to say it, but if I had $800 to spend on a new system right now, I'd probably go for this:
Sony Alpha NEX-5R Mirrorless Digital Camera with 16-50mm

[em-tx]

This morning I went to semi-local camera store (little over an hour away) as they are the only place even remotely close to me that carries Pentax brand cameras. Pentax had little presence in the store. A small nook on the shelf. They did have a beautiful 645 in a maroon color that was prominently displayed. Nikon took up most of the real estate with Canon just slightly less.

I Looked at the D7000 and the K-30. Sadly, it did little to help me decide. I walked in almost sure the D7000 was the right camera. Then I picked up the K-30. Man that thing just felt right in my hands. Like a glove. The D7000 seemed a bit large for my purposes. Packed with extras to be sure but, a little over sized. I noticed that comparatively, the K-30 looked a little low end in it's finish. It looked more like what I expect a bridge camera would look like. The D7000 looked as you would expect a Nikon would look. I'm obviously not buying a camera for looks but, I did notice it.

One thing i did notice was, when asked about Pentax and it's market presence, the store owner was quick to defend Pentax and it's purchase by Ricoh. The sales lady also indicated to me that one of the professional photographers that works there recently switched from Nikon to Pentax. This intrigued me. To me it tells me Pentax is on the rise among those "in the know".

So in the end, I went in leaning heavily towards Nikon and left quite the opposite. Crunch time is coming however and I'll need to make a decision. Still not sure what that decision is going to be though.

I am also at the point of buying camera as well as considering brands and I did some research (happy for opinion from anyone.)
At the price you indicated, you might even find K5, since K5 II is out. On dpreview you can find pro photographers going from CanNik FF to K5 with ltd lenses. K 30 is little behind K5, but if you look at DXO reviews, you see its very high in rating for stills. from 5d2 to k5 for portability?: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

I think its important to realize what you expect from camera. At 16MP chip, you can do really big prints (A2+) with K 30, which has good color saturation, DR and low noise. Do you wanna be in absolute control of image, do you wanna manipulate exposures for art photo, or you wanna documentary quality - what you see goes out - nice colors and sharp, AF and maybe some in camera filters. What purpose, what features? Do you wanna experiment with camera and its capabilities?
I believe technology is so far, that with almost any DSLR and mirrorless at this price level you can document reality sufficiently.

Pentax might be down on sales and future is always a question. Ricoh bought company year ago, so only time will tell. It might be reason they offer comparativelly more for bug. My approach is to buy camera and use it till it dies. In my case K5. I can only imagine upgrading to FF from K5. I think coming technology can make camera faster or maybe introduce some features, but improvement in picture quality wont be that visible in APS-C less special - challenging situations; are you shooting those? (I might be wrong in pic quality, correct me if you think so.) K5 is actually performing better in some cases than Can 5D II, but APS-C can not get look of FF. After all, you can always push pic with PP.

Lenses are difficult case for me as well. I believe, that if you do not require pro look and detail, even you jump a ship you still do very good with adapters. I am solving this question with manual lenses. I like to do take pictures manual and m lenses will always fit to my MX.
I think its important that you feel good with camera. Comfortable enough, that you can do pictures as you like. (link from dpreview) Couple of years cameras did not have such a pics quality, but amazing pics was taken with them.

Video is challenge. I believe nothing can beat recently NEX 7 or big SLTs from Sony. FullHD is nice, but impractical. Even normal DVD - PAL, NTSC picture can be beautiful. I believe its more about with which camera it was taken, how it was rendered and PP. Alas if you need AF and mic on your DSLR you might watch for your choice. I work in theatre and I play with idea to set small F - so it gives me sufficient DOF, focus on center stage and boost chip to deal with lack of light. Did not try yet. (If someone has experience, please share.)
NEX 7 and NEX 5 does not have image stabilisation and SLT has.

This is my opinion, but since I also did not decided (very much inclined for K5) I will be happy if anyone share or correct me if I am off.

Greets to all.

[em-tx]

For inspiration:
Boxed Light | K5

[Navmaxlp]

For inspiration:
Boxed Light | K5

Thanks for posting this. Pentax K-30 with 18-55 kit lens purchased. Now to wait a few weeks before I can open and use it.