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10-07-2012, 11:12 PM   #1
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Which system?

So I've been researching cameras for some time now and I'm at a point where my wife has decided to get me one for my birthday. I'm not invested in any system at this point. I have been looking at the K-30 and for some time have believed that was what I should get. However, two friends at work have Nikons and one has indicated he may be able to get me a great deal on a D7000. Well, the camera and lens for around $800. Now, I've been looking at Pentax for over two years now, waiting for the time when I would make the purchase. I'm torn at this point. The question of which system to start on has me turning around and around in circles. What I plan to shoot spreads over the whole spectrum (astro, a little birding maybe, travel, family etc.) and video is concern. My wife dances and I like to make videos of her team's shows. I like a lot about both systems. My concern with Pentax is availability, longevity and aftermarket products. My concern with the Nikon is, I don't know a lot about them. All the research I've done has been on Pentax. Two years worth of research lol. Also, giving up the in body shake reduction although, the last real photography I've done was with old manual everything film cameras that didn't have any SR/VR so, I don't know that I'll miss it even on manual Nikon glass. If I can't get a deal for the D7000 under $900, the decision is easy since I have a budget to keep to. But, if it works out that the Nikon is available, I need some advice. I want a system that I'll be into forever. I don't want to have to go replacing glass. Nikon makes this easy with their market presence and Pentax has a history of sticking to the K mount. My opinion changes on a minute to minute basis. So, I turn to you. Please, help me decide,

10-07-2012, 11:46 PM   #2
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Lets see if I can help.

The K-30 looks to be a wonderful upper entry level camera that takes all that is great about the K-5, adds things like focus peaking, but takes away things like dual dials. The D7000 that you are looking at is a pretty similar camera to the K-5, but with a less weather sealed body. Better flash and AF systems. Greater range of current lenses. Pentax has a comparable to better range of legacy glass which of course enjoys the benefit if in camera stabilisation. (how many lenses do you need?/can you afford? )

I could be wrong here, but my impression is that neither the K30 nor d7K is renowned for their video performance, so this is probably a wash
The D7000 is a one generation old camera (as is the K-5 classic) while the K-30 enjoys the benefits of some technological advances.

I'm a Pentax guy and therefore biased, but if you are looking at a system as a whole I'd probably give the nod to Pentax, but if a lot of strobist work is on your horizon, I'd go with the Nikon. The Pentax system is more than adequate for probably 90% of all shooters. FF or no FF. Show me the Nikon equivalents of the tiny jewel primes that Pentax makes.

Your point about availability in the US is a valid one, and may be something to consider. Here where I live, I can find Pentax in virtually every major camera store, so I have no basis for judging how much of an issue that is.

If it were me I'd buy the K-30 (*except for the caveat about strobist work)

....and then there is also the added cache of swimming against the flow.... (but that's probably just the contrarian in me)
10-08-2012, 01:41 AM   #3
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So you really took a bite in your own ass on this. If you had bought a K-x two years ago, you would have had the experience off working with it and giving all the answers you are looking for at the time. There is no such thing as a system for ever! I suggest you buy the K-30 with the one kitlens and go play around with it. You will find answers to your questions, like wich lenses to use, what specifications do I need for my work and is that on the K-30, can I work around limitations of my camerasystem (that goes for all camera's, but different). If you are one year away, then you have knowledge. Build on that system, or just sell it and buy into the next system based on your own choices. The loss off money is low, since you start off with a low investment. Make a plan on how to save up money for your camerasystem. I budgetted myself to 2400 euro a year, but already stretched that up to do all the things I want to do.
10-08-2012, 06:14 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replies. They've given me some stuff to think about. A couple of things:

QuoteOriginally posted by wizofoz Quote
(how many lenses do you need?/can you afford? )
Well, that's going to depend. I'd say about a lens a year. We bought our dream home a couple of years ago which is why it's taken so long to actually buy a camera. I tend to spend money more on my wife than on myself so, most of the money I've bee saving has gone to provide things for her. Moving forward, I'd say about $300 - $500 a year on lenses. I've got a lot of general accessories left over from my film days so a flash and a few camera specific things are all I'll need other than lenses.

QuoteQuote:
I could be wrong here, but my impression is that neither the K30 nor d7K is renowned for their video performance, so this is probably a wash
The D7000 is a one generation old camera (as is the K-5 classic) while the K-30 enjoys the benefits of some technological advances.
Yeah, my concern is not necessarily the video quality of the camera per se. The fact that these cameras shoot 1080p is enough. I actually prefer 24 fps for the "movie look" but the additional 60 fps of the k-30 is nice for slow motion stuff. On the D7000 it would be nice to have the external mic for sound whereas on the K-30 there is no jack for one. Like I said, I go round and round with this thing.

QuoteQuote:
Your point about availability in the US is a valid one, and may be something to consider. Here where I live, I can find Pentax in virtually every major camera store, so I have no basis for judging how much of an issue that is.
If that were the case here, the decision would be much easier. Pentax stuff is completely vacant from any and every store I go into. A friend of mine admitted he had literally never heard of Pentax before.

QuoteQuote:
....and then there is also the added cache of swimming against the flow.... (but that's probably just the contrarian in me)
This too. I like doing my own thing. However, I've found that also sometimes works against me. Like in this situation. If I go Nikon, I'll have the ability to borrow lenses from a friend or two. If I go Pentax, I'm on my own.

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So you really took a bite in your own ass on this. If you had bought a K-x two years ago, you would have had the experience off working with it and giving all the answers you are looking for at the time.
Tell me about it lol. Yeah, I honestly wish I had been able to purchase a camera a couple of years ago. Would have made everything a lot easier and, hopefully, I'd already have some good shots. Unfortunately, this was not an option.

QuoteQuote:
There is no such thing as a system for ever!
Good point. I know things happen and situations change and such but, I'm not what you would call a spender. Once I buy into a system, I'm going to be locked in for the most part. I'm not a professional photographer. I enjoy taking pictures and sharing them. Possibly putting a couple up on my walls. I can see myself upgrading a camera body every few years but, if I become invested in lenses and accessories, I don't see myself ever picking up and changing systems. I just couldn't justify the cost.

QuoteQuote:
I suggest you buy the K-30 with the one kitlens and go play around with it. You will find answers to your questions, like wich lenses to use, what specifications do I need for my work and is that on the K-30, can I work around limitations of my camerasystem (that goes for all camera's, but different).
Good strong advice that I plan to follow.

Hopefully, I'll find out over the next few days what kind of deal I'll be able to get on the D7000. Again, if I can't do it, my decision is easy. Honestly though, I'm not sure which way I want it to go.

10-08-2012, 06:35 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by wizofoz Quote
The K-30 looks to be a wonderful upper entry level camera that takes all that is great about the K-5, adds things like focus peaking, but takes away things like dual dials.
I'm sure the OP knows this, but the K-30 has dual dials.
10-08-2012, 07:22 AM   #6
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If you will be taking a lot of video, you have to take into consideration that the K-30 does not have HDMI out. If you wanted to go to a friends' house and show them the HD footage you just took of your wife dancing on their HD TV, you wouldn't be able to.
10-08-2012, 08:38 AM   #7
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QuoteQuote:
I'm sure the OP knows this, but the K-30 has dual dials
QuoteQuote:
If you will be taking a lot of video, you have to take into consideration that the K-30 does not have HDMI out. If you wanted to go to a friends' house and show them the HD footage you just took of your wife dancing on their HD TV, you wouldn't be able to.
Yeah, i find this slightly annoying. Pentax came so close to making the perfect camera for me, offering extras like the second dial then drops the ball on easy stuff like an HDMI port and hook up for external audio. Additionally, and not that I'm sure I'll ever need it but, there's no tethering for the K-30 as far as I know. I have no idea if I'd ever use it but, hey, I've been researching for two years. I've become a bit obsessive. Nikon can not only do tethering but, has options for which program to use for it. Even if PK-tether supported the K-30, who knows how long the software itself will be supported.

10-08-2012, 02:21 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I'm sure the OP knows this, but the K-30 has dual dials.
oops, my bad (as the young folks say)
10-08-2012, 05:46 PM   #9
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One thing that hasn't been raised is the warranty, a shiny new Pentax will have a one year warranty. The used Nikon could have anywhere from 0 to several months (depending on what the retailer offers.) and if it comes from someone who knows someone, you could be inheriting a problem child.

It would be a real annoyance after two years to finally get yourself a camera, only to end up spending your first years lens budget, or more, on repairing it.
10-09-2012, 01:13 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Navmaxlp Quote
My concern with Pentax is availability, longevity and aftermarket products....
Once I buy into a system, I'm going to be locked in for the most part....if I become invested in lenses and accessories, I don't see myself ever picking up and changing systems. I just couldn't justify the cost.
If you like Pentax gear, then by all means, get the K-30; as you should enjoy the camera while taking pictures.

OTOH, if longevity is your prime concern, I would have some reservation.
Pentax is currently at its lowest point in terms of sales since the release of K DSLRs. After the disappointments of Photokina, and the fact that it has been changed hands twice, you've got to wonder how much patience Ricoh has with Pentax.

Having said that, if current Pentax cameras and lenses satisfy your needs, they should provide you with many years of use, regardless of what would happen to Pentax as a company.
10-09-2012, 04:54 AM - 2 Likes   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Pentax is currently at its lowest point in terms of sales since the release of K DSLRs. After the disappointments of Photokina, and the fact that it has been changed hands twice, you've got to wonder how much patience Ricoh has with Pentax.
Your pronouncement on sales is hard to believe. Where are the sales figures to back this up?

How was Photokina disappointing? The K-30 was released shortly before, and it is superior by far to anything in its price range. The K-5 II improves on an already good K-5. The IIS introduces a body with no aliasing filter, a feature that got Fuji high praise. Note that the competing bodies have not been not updated (D7000, D300S, 60D, 7D). It seems petty to criticize Pentax when the competition did nothing.

The imaging division was acquired incidentally by Hoya, who publicly stated they had no interest in cameras. The purchase by Ricoh is an entirely different proposition, their expressed intention is to double the sales. To suggest they may dump the program in the foreseeable future is ridiculous, they're just getting started. When you look at the map showing where Pentax is not currently marketed, I expect that doubling the business is a realistic target. The main point is, Ricoh is in the camera business and wants to go deeper into the camera business, with Pentax is their vehicle. I have great optimism about this, and can't see any justification for sad sack posts like yours.
10-09-2012, 04:48 PM   #12
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I know Ricoh's purchase of Pentax is a good thing. It gives me comfort to know a company who is dedicated to the success of the Pentax line is in control of things. The release of the K-30 and K-5II cameras, while most likely a function of the Hoya influence, was a step in the right direction. I'm sure the best is yet to come for Pentax and the K mount system.

Nikon, on the other hand, doesn't need the time or effort to establish themselves. They have the market presence both in the bricks and mortar store front and on line already. They have a robust aftermarket and third party presence as well.

The problem for me is figuring which to base my initial investment on. Pentax has the "bang for the buck" factor. No other camera company is offering cameras with the functionality of the K-30 at the price point Pentax is at. As yet, I haven't read about too many out of control problems with the K-30. Sure, there are issues here and there but none of the rampant problems earlier models (K-R) had.

That being said, buying into the Nikon system would ensure access to third party software support, third party accessories and easy rental and repair all by just walking into a store or performing a quick google search and download.

I WANT to go the Pentax route. I don't like the community Nikon has to offer. I like being a little different and not simply following the trend (which is why I have a Windows Phone as opposed to the iPhone). Canikon, to me, is a lot like Apple and their products. I can go up to any iPhone user and ask why they use it. Their response to me, often times, will be "because it's the best". When asked what makes it the best however, they won't be able to answer and support their claims. The average Pentax user is well informed, knows what makes their cameras good, understands the drawbacks of their systems and can give credit to other systems where credit is due. That, to me, is invaluable and something I'd like to be a part of.

The only problem is, I don't necessarily want to put my money on a system based on ideals and warm fuzzy feelings. I want to get the most useable system that will be able to sustain upgrading for years to come. I'm not comparing the D7000 to the K-30. Much more intelligent and qualified people have already done that for me. I can quickly access the comparisons on Snapsort or some other similar website. I'm trying to compare systems and some of the intangibles they offer.

Thanks so much for all the help so far. I'd still like more feedback. I'm really still very much torn on this.
10-09-2012, 05:24 PM   #13
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My advice is to carefully look at how you will use the camera and all options that are available. I will tell my story. Perhaps it will give you inspiration)

When I was purchasing my first real camera, I was debating between the micro 4/3 system and a Pentax DSLR. I opted for a k200D (~$400 at the time) and the WR kit lens (~$200) because I found the weather sealing very important. Since I received the camera, I have learned a lot about what I like and what I do not like. For instance I found that I feel a bit self-conscious when shooting with a large camera in public and do not always enjoy carrying one around (makes you feel like a tourist). I also found that I value a quiet shutter (again, because I feel self conscious). And, of course I enjoy the weather sealing. Because of what I have learned, I would like my next camera to be a small (mirrorless), quiet, weather sealed camera. In the meantime, I purchased a da40 limited lens.

My point is that it took me time to learn what camera features I actually value. If you are unsure what features you value or how you will use the camera, I would recommend purchasing a cheap used camera, using it for a year, and then purchasing the camera you really want, and that fits with your style of shooting.
10-09-2012, 06:17 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by kswier Quote
...For instance I found that I feel a bit self-conscious when shooting with a large camera in public and do not always enjoy carrying one around (makes you feel like a tourist)...

Most definitely. I've always felt a bit self concious carrying a larger camera around even in the old film days Not only for the tourist factor but also because I feel a little "showy" carrying around a big camera. Like I'm saying "look at me and my big camera. I'm so awesome". Big cameras have their place and people need them but, I feel awkward carrying one for my purposess. I'm definitely looking for a smaller form factor camera. The K-30 is great for this. The D7000 isn't terrible for me but, is slightly larger. Funny enough though, one of the reasons I like the D7000 is for the ability to add a battery grip. While I know it makes the camera much larger and intimidating to subjects, I can't shoot without power. The K-30 overcomes this with it's AA battery adapter but, you then have to open the battery lid and change them out. With the grip, you can just slap it on and run with it. I know it sounds weird but, it makes sense to me. Sadly, for me, I think no matter which camera I choose, I'm going to feel bad about it and not having the attributes the other system provides. That is, until I receive it, use it and start enjoying the art of photographhy I've been missing for so long.
10-09-2012, 07:08 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Your pronouncement on sales is hard to believe. Where are the sales figures to back this up?

How was Photokina disappointing? The K-30 was released shortly before, and it is superior by far to anything in its price range. The K-5 II improves on an already good K-5. The IIS introduces a body with no aliasing filter, a feature that got Fuji high praise. Note that the competing bodies have not been not updated (D7000, D300S, 60D, 7D). It seems petty to criticize Pentax when the competition did nothing.

The imaging division was acquired incidentally by Hoya, who publicly stated they had no interest in cameras. The purchase by Ricoh is an entirely different proposition, their expressed intention is to double the sales. To suggest they may dump the program in the foreseeable future is ridiculous, they're just getting started. When you look at the map showing where Pentax is not currently marketed, I expect that doubling the business is a realistic target. The main point is, Ricoh is in the camera business and wants to go deeper into the camera business, with Pentax is their vehicle. I have great optimism about this, and can't see any justification for sad sack posts like yours.
Sad sack post? In every one of the past 3 years I've seen less Pentax cameras for sale in local stores. In every one of the past 3 years I've seen less and less Pentax cameras being used out in public. Unfortunately, the brand is falling every year and it does seem like it's at an all time low. People don't even know the brand anymore if you mention the name. It's a sad state and I couldn't even guess to say where the Pentax brand will be in 3 years. It's not sad sack posts. It's being realistic.

There isn't one Pentax camera on Amazon.com's current best selling digital cameras list. Every single other brand (Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic, Sony) has cameras on the list and not a single Pentax to be found out of 100 cameras.

If you check their best selling DSLR list, the K-30 is the best Pentax model and currently 44th out of 50. Not good.

Last edited by K-9; 10-09-2012 at 07:14 PM.
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