Sony going 100% Mirrorless?

Winder · 06-20-2013, 09:32 AM

The new Sony sensors have PDAF built into the sensor so they will be using a combination of PDAF/CDAF for AF. Speed should be as fast as the current A99 if they dedicate the resources to AF.

It will be interesting to see if Sony takes the A-mount and produces lenses that recess back into the mirror box.

philbaum · 06-20-2013, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Winder

The new Sony sensors have PDAF built into the sensor so they will be using a combination of PDAF/CDAF for AF. Speed should be as fast as the current A99 if they dedicate the resources to AF.

It will be interesting to see if Sony takes the A-mount and produces lenses that recess back into the mirror box.

Thats a possibility. They wouldn't have to make many lenses like that, just 2 or 3 street type lenses that will give that RX-1 type of appeal to those that want them. I don't think that approach works well for the longer telescopic lenses because of size restrictions on diameter.

I hope they can find some mfr, is that Olympus, that will work with them to produce more lenses, esp for the Nex. And i hope they keep the tilting LCD, which they did for the A99 i believe. (thinking more FF here)

The advantage that Sony has, perhaps 2, is 1. that they can take more chances with innovative designs since the are not risking a lot of market share, and 2. they apparently have the design type culture that encourages break-out ideas.

Winder · 06-20-2013, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

Thats a possibility. They wouldn't have to make many lenses like that, just 2 or 3 street type lenses that will give that RX-1 type of appeal to those that want them. I don't think that approach works well for the longer telescopic lenses because of size restrictions on diameter.

I hope they can find some mfr, is that Olympus, that will work with them to produce more lenses, esp for the Nex. And i hope they keep the tilting LCD, which they did for the A99 i believe. (thinking more FF here)

The advantage that Sony has, perhaps 2, is 1. that they can take more chances with innovative designs since the are not risking a lot of market share, and 2. they apparently have the design type culture that encourages break-out ideas.

Olympus has long been rumored to be considering a larger sensor platform. The Sony deal could lead to an Olympus made DSLR for A-mount. With Sony abandoning the DSLR it opens the door for Olympus and keeps Sony's lenses selling (some of which will be designed/made by Olympus).

philbaum · 06-20-2013, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Olympus has long been rumored to be considering a larger sensor platform. The Sony deal could lead to an Olympus made DSLR for A-mount. With Sony abandoning the DSLR it opens the door for Olympus and keeps Sony's lenses selling (some of which will be designed/made by Olympus).

Dang, that makes way too much sense. Considering the financial strains on both companies - that allows both companies to put less start-up money into the A-mount effort. And Sony still benefits from sale of A-mount lens designs that they own, and from the sale of their cool sensors. I think it would be a far more interesting camera world if both Sony and Olympus stay in the marketplace.

falconeye · 06-20-2013, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

CDAF will always have more measurements so how can it be faster?

Covered above.

(I don't want to sound unfriendly, but please understand that I don't want to discuss it for a 2nd time. Hint: AF time is #measurements * time per measurement + (a constant) focus travel time; CDAF potentially needs dramatically less time per measurement).

Winder · 06-20-2013, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

Dang, that makes way too much sense. Considering the financial strains on both companies - that allows both companies to put less start-up money into the A-mount effort. And Sony still benefits from sale of A-mount lens designs that they own, and from the sale of their cool sensors. I think it would be a far more interesting camera world if both Sony and Olympus stay in the marketplace.

Yeah... It is pure fantasy right now.

Olympus needs a bigger sensor to expand it products and get back into the bigger market, but it can't afford to launch a new mount.
Sony has abandoned DSLRs and is working with Olympus on lenses and AF technology.

Olympus makes DSLRs in A-mount and lenses. It walks into a long established mount with plenty of legacy glass.
Olympus gets to make A-mount glass and sell it to Sony or maybe even directly under the Olympus name.
Sony focuses on EVIL and gets to use Olympus glass which is some of the best in the world.
Sony gets to use Olympus AF which the OM-D is faster than any Pentax PDAF on static subjects.

I would be in line to buy an Olympus FF DSLR with access to Minolta legacy glass, CZ glass, & new ZD Olympus glass.

Anvh · 06-21-2013, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Covered above.

(I don't want to sound unfriendly, but please understand that I don't want to discuss it for a 2nd time. Hint: AF time is #measurements * time per measurement + (a constant) focus travel time; CDAF potentially needs dramatically less time per measurement).

Ayoh seems to agree with me and you did not disagree with him over these points.

- Potential delays in AF acquisition introduced by a incorrect initial guess of focusing direction which leads to greater defocus.
- Large defocus which requires significant lens travel before practically measurable difference is registered (such as in telephoto or large aperture lenses). This can conflate with the previous issue.

so... Yeah what is it now. When i say it with more words you disagree with me.

06-20-2013, 03:12 PM	#80
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Anvh CDAF will always have more measurements so how can it be faster? Covered above. (I don't want to sound unfriendly, but please understand that I don't want to discuss it for a 2nd time. Hint: AF time is #measurements * time per measurement + (a constant) focus travel time; CDAF potentially needs dramatically less time per measurement). Last edited by falconeye; 06-20-2013 at 03:17 PM.

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06-20-2013, 09:32 AM	#76
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	The new Sony sensors have PDAF built into the sensor so they will be using a combination of PDAF/CDAF for AF. Speed should be as fast as the current A99 if they dedicate the resources to AF. It will be interesting to see if Sony takes the A-mount and produces lenses that recess back into the mirror box.

06-20-2013, 12:46 PM	#77
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by Winder The new Sony sensors have PDAF built into the sensor so they will be using a combination of PDAF/CDAF for AF. Speed should be as fast as the current A99 if they dedicate the resources to AF. It will be interesting to see if Sony takes the A-mount and produces lenses that recess back into the mirror box. Thats a possibility. They wouldn't have to make many lenses like that, just 2 or 3 street type lenses that will give that RX-1 type of appeal to those that want them. I don't think that approach works well for the longer telescopic lenses because of size restrictions on diameter. I hope they can find some mfr, is that Olympus, that will work with them to produce more lenses, esp for the Nex. And i hope they keep the tilting LCD, which they did for the A99 i believe. (thinking more FF here) The advantage that Sony has, perhaps 2, is 1. that they can take more chances with innovative designs since the are not risking a lot of market share, and 2. they apparently have the design type culture that encourages break-out ideas.

06-20-2013, 01:25 PM	#78
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by philbaum Thats a possibility. They wouldn't have to make many lenses like that, just 2 or 3 street type lenses that will give that RX-1 type of appeal to those that want them. I don't think that approach works well for the longer telescopic lenses because of size restrictions on diameter. I hope they can find some mfr, is that Olympus, that will work with them to produce more lenses, esp for the Nex. And i hope they keep the tilting LCD, which they did for the A99 i believe. (thinking more FF here) The advantage that Sony has, perhaps 2, is 1. that they can take more chances with innovative designs since the are not risking a lot of market share, and 2. they apparently have the design type culture that encourages break-out ideas. Olympus has long been rumored to be considering a larger sensor platform. The Sony deal could lead to an Olympus made DSLR for A-mount. With Sony abandoning the DSLR it opens the door for Olympus and keeps Sony's lenses selling (some of which will be designed/made by Olympus).

06-20-2013, 01:39 PM	#79
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by Winder Olympus has long been rumored to be considering a larger sensor platform. The Sony deal could lead to an Olympus made DSLR for A-mount. With Sony abandoning the DSLR it opens the door for Olympus and keeps Sony's lenses selling (some of which will be designed/made by Olympus). Dang, that makes way too much sense. Considering the financial strains on both companies - that allows both companies to put less start-up money into the A-mount effort. And Sony still benefits from sale of A-mount lens designs that they own, and from the sale of their cool sensors. I think it would be a far more interesting camera world if both Sony and Olympus stay in the marketplace.

06-20-2013, 08:03 PM	#81
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by philbaum Dang, that makes way too much sense. Considering the financial strains on both companies - that allows both companies to put less start-up money into the A-mount effort. And Sony still benefits from sale of A-mount lens designs that they own, and from the sale of their cool sensors. I think it would be a far more interesting camera world if both Sony and Olympus stay in the marketplace. Yeah... It is pure fantasy right now. Olympus needs a bigger sensor to expand it products and get back into the bigger market, but it can't afford to launch a new mount. Sony has abandoned DSLRs and is working with Olympus on lenses and AF technology. Olympus makes DSLRs in A-mount and lenses. It walks into a long established mount with plenty of legacy glass. Olympus gets to make A-mount glass and sell it to Sony or maybe even directly under the Olympus name. Sony focuses on EVIL and gets to use Olympus glass which is some of the best in the world. Sony gets to use Olympus AF which the OM-D is faster than any Pentax PDAF on static subjects. I would be in line to buy an Olympus FF DSLR with access to Minolta legacy glass, CZ glass, & new ZD Olympus glass.

06-21-2013, 03:33 AM	#82
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by falconeye Covered above. (I don't want to sound unfriendly, but please understand that I don't want to discuss it for a 2nd time. Hint: AF time is #measurements * time per measurement + (a constant) focus travel time; CDAF potentially needs dramatically less time per measurement). Ayoh seems to agree with me and you did not disagree with him over these points. - Potential delays in AF acquisition introduced by a incorrect initial guess of focusing direction which leads to greater defocus. - Large defocus which requires significant lens travel before practically measurable difference is registered (such as in telephoto or large aperture lenses). This can conflate with the previous issue. so... Yeah what is it now. When i say it with more words you disagree with me.