Thom Hogan Reviews A7/r

jogiba · 03-10-2014, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by rawr

And 1.5 fps continuous frame rate (4 fps without focus/exposure changes).
No thanks.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/251...-tracking.html

cali92rs · 03-10-2014, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by rawr

And 1.5 fps continuous frame rate (4 fps without focus/exposure changes).
No thanks.

Have fun....I'm done feeding the troll

**Rondec** · 03-10-2014, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/251...-tracking.html

What does that have to do with anything? The A6000 is an APS-C mirrorless camera. The question is if full frame mirrorless can match SLR performance. Thom Hogan's conclusion is no, partly because of Sony's decisions when creating the camera and partly because of the overall limitations with regard to mirrorless in general.

The A7r, in particular, uses contrast only auto focus and has few lenses (4?) that cover the image circle and will auto focus without an adapter. The fact that the A6000 with phase detect sensors on the sensor focuses faster means nothing to the discussion. But thanks for sharing...

rawr · 03-10-2014, 09:05 PM

The A7r seems to have too many limitations to buy at the moment. Very much a v1.0 product.

An A8r will probably inherit some of the AF tech from the A6000, fix up some of the ergonomic and other tech issues that have cropped up in the A7 series. Sony do this kind of continuous improvement all the time.

RyanW · 03-10-2014, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

the fact that any DSLR lens works with the A7r.

I believe that's using the term "works" rather loosely. More like can be mounted and some degree of success can be had in most cases via manual focus and don't look at the corners too much, just be glad you can use your lens at all.

Sony needs to build some lenses.

pinholecam · 03-10-2014, 11:31 PM

Canon with AF via Metabones?
The combi is very slow AF (a rough idea of its speed is like old days pns cam AF speed)

Better than 645D?
You need to look at more samples available on the internet.
The 645D beats both D800e and A7r for better tonal graduations as well as pixel level detail.
At 100% D800e and A7r just look like pixels and 645D files always look like it can still go further than 100%.

To be fair, yes, I do think A7r lossy RAW is not as bad as ppl make it out to be and is no problem at all in most real use images and situations. (as you links can show between it and D800e)

Man! I know you are very bitter about Pentax, but pls don't keep dumping these one liners and half truths here.

jogiba · 03-11-2014, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by RyanW

I believe that's using the term "works" rather loosely. More like can be mounted and some degree of success can be had in most cases via manual focus and don't look at the corners too much, just be glad you can use your lens at all.

Sony needs to build some lenses.

It seems many here need to stick with fully automatic cameras and let the experienced users work with manual lenses on full frame cameras were they don't have a problem and Ricoh needs to build a full frame camera with green button for the inexperienced users here.

**RobA_Oz** · 03-11-2014, 06:05 AM

By that definition, I guess Thomas Hogan must be an inexperienced user, even if his Nikons don't have a green button.

To come back to the point of this thread, the writer is saying what is becoming a theme for reviews of the A7s: nice try, better luck next time.

**monochrome** · 03-11-2014, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

It seems many here need to stick with fully automatic cameras and let the experienced users work with manual lenses on full frame cameras were they don't have a problem and Ricoh needs to build a full frame camera with green button for the inexperienced users here.

You seem to have green button in your browser for posting.

Clavius · 03-11-2014, 06:20 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

The A7r, in particular, uses contrast only auto focus and has few lenses (4?) that cover the image circle and will auto focus without an adapter. The fact that the A6000 with phase detect sensors on the sensor focuses faster means nothing to the discussion. But thanks for sharing...

It adds to the discussion that the next iteration of the A7/r will most probably be even better then the current. It's a system with a future.

Just to put things in perspective: There's currently 24 types of FF DSLRs on the new and used market. The very first mirrorless FF almost beats worlds best FF DSLR. Missed just by a 1%. In a package that is smaller then any blobby APS-C DSLR. That's extremely impressive. And promises a lot for the future. Future as in "2014", not as in "it will come, but not soon."

tuco · 03-11-2014, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

It seems many here need to stick with fully automatic cameras and let the experienced users work with manual lenses ...

I still shoot medium and large format film cameras that don't even have a built in light meter. I get plenty of methodical and manual focus experience. When I pick up a modern digital camera, I want and expect a fast responsive camera with no shutter button lag and fast focus.

jogiba · 03-11-2014, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by tuco

I still shoot medium and large format film cameras that don't even have a built in light meter. I get plenty of methodical and manual focus experience. When I pick up a modern digital camera, I want and expect a fast responsive camera with no shutter button lag and fast focus.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/251...-tracking.html

tuco · 03-11-2014, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/251...-tracking.html

Yeah, but I'm old school. I got rid of my APS-C cameras for FF because I prefer that format I grew up with it and learned on. And while I like the smaller lenses of mirrorless cameras, I don't like their small bodies. They are too small for me. Right now I have a pretty good fit for my casual and candid camera. It is FF, has excellent low light, fast enough focus and acceptable size primes. What I would like more if the sensor tech would improve to get more dynamic range at high ISO. And, again, right now the camera I have is rated pretty good for that too compared to the vast majority of cameras out there.

jogiba · 03-11-2014, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by tuco

Yeah, but I'm old school. I got rid of my APS-C cameras for FF because I prefer that format I grew up with it and learned on. And while I like the smaller lenses of mirrorless cameras, I don't like their small bodies. They are too small for me. Right now I have a pretty good fit for my casual and candid camera. It is FF, has excellent low light, fast enough focus and acceptable size primes. What I would like more if the sensor tech would improve to get more dynamic range at high ISO. And, again, right now the camera I have is rated pretty good for that too compared to the vast majority of cameras out there.

Quote:

In the first video, the guy says 14 stops of DR across ALL ISO sensitivities. Now that's a killer feature.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/249...ml#post2662857
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/249...ml#post2728026
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/250851-new-pentax-6...os-sensor.html

tuco · 03-11-2014, 07:48 AM

Please, give me some credit for knowing what new cameras are being announced. Like it has not been posted all over the place already.

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03-10-2014, 05:46 PM	#16
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by rawr And 1.5 fps continuous frame rate (4 fps without focus/exposure changes). No thanks. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/251...-tracking.html

03-10-2014, 05:46 PM	#17
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354 Original Poster	Originally posted by rawr And 1.5 fps continuous frame rate (4 fps without focus/exposure changes). No thanks. Have fun....I'm done feeding the troll

03-10-2014, 06:29 PM	#18
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by jogiba https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/251...-tracking.html What does that have to do with anything? The A6000 is an APS-C mirrorless camera. The question is if full frame mirrorless can match SLR performance. Thom Hogan's conclusion is no, partly because of Sony's decisions when creating the camera and partly because of the overall limitations with regard to mirrorless in general. The A7r, in particular, uses contrast only auto focus and has few lenses (4?) that cover the image circle and will auto focus without an adapter. The fact that the A6000 with phase detect sensors on the sensor focuses faster means nothing to the discussion. But thanks for sharing...

03-10-2014, 09:05 PM	#19
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	The A7r seems to have too many limitations to buy at the moment. Very much a v1.0 product. An A8r will probably inherit some of the AF tech from the A6000, fix up some of the ergonomic and other tech issues that have cropped up in the A7 series. Sony do this kind of continuous improvement all the time.

03-10-2014, 10:49 PM	#20
RyanW Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 583	Originally posted by jogiba the fact that any DSLR lens works with the A7r. I believe that's using the term "works" rather loosely. More like can be mounted and some degree of success can be had in most cases via manual focus and don't look at the corners too much, just be glad you can use your lens at all. Sony needs to build some lenses.

03-10-2014, 11:31 PM	#21
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Canon with AF via Metabones? The combi is very slow AF (a rough idea of its speed is like old days pns cam AF speed) Better than 645D? You need to look at more samples available on the internet. The 645D beats both D800e and A7r for better tonal graduations as well as pixel level detail. At 100% D800e and A7r just look like pixels and 645D files always look like it can still go further than 100%. To be fair, yes, I do think A7r lossy RAW is not as bad as ppl make it out to be and is no problem at all in most real use images and situations. (as you links can show between it and D800e) Man! I know you are very bitter about Pentax, but pls don't keep dumping these one liners and half truths here.

03-11-2014, 05:31 AM	#22
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by RyanW I believe that's using the term "works" rather loosely. More like can be mounted and some degree of success can be had in most cases via manual focus and don't look at the corners too much, just be glad you can use your lens at all. Sony needs to build some lenses. It seems many here need to stick with fully automatic cameras and let the experienced users work with manual lenses on full frame cameras were they don't have a problem and Ricoh needs to build a full frame camera with green button for the inexperienced users here.

03-11-2014, 06:05 AM	#23
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,191	By that definition, I guess Thomas Hogan must be an inexperienced user, even if his Nikons don't have a green button. To come back to the point of this thread, the writer is saying what is becoming a theme for reviews of the A7s: nice try, better luck next time.

03-11-2014, 06:10 AM	#24
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by jogiba It seems many here need to stick with fully automatic cameras and let the experienced users work with manual lenses on full frame cameras were they don't have a problem and Ricoh needs to build a full frame camera with green button for the inexperienced users here. You seem to have green button in your browser for posting.

03-11-2014, 06:20 AM - 1 Like	#25
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Rondec The A7r, in particular, uses contrast only auto focus and has few lenses (4?) that cover the image circle and will auto focus without an adapter. The fact that the A6000 with phase detect sensors on the sensor focuses faster means nothing to the discussion. But thanks for sharing... It adds to the discussion that the next iteration of the A7/r will most probably be even better then the current. It's a system with a future. Just to put things in perspective: There's currently 24 types of FF DSLRs on the new and used market. The very first mirrorless FF almost beats worlds best FF DSLR. Missed just by a 1%. In a package that is smaller then any blobby APS-C DSLR. That's extremely impressive. And promises a lot for the future. Future as in "2014", not as in "it will come, but not soon."

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03-11-2014, 07:12 AM	#26
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,020	Originally posted by jogiba It seems many here need to stick with fully automatic cameras and let the experienced users work with manual lenses ... I still shoot medium and large format film cameras that don't even have a built in light meter. I get plenty of methodical and manual focus experience. When I pick up a modern digital camera, I want and expect a fast responsive camera with no shutter button lag and fast focus.

03-11-2014, 07:16 AM	#27
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by tuco I still shoot medium and large format film cameras that don't even have a built in light meter. I get plenty of methodical and manual focus experience. When I pick up a modern digital camera, I want and expect a fast responsive camera with no shutter button lag and fast focus. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/251...-tracking.html

03-11-2014, 07:32 AM	#28
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,020	Originally posted by jogiba https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/251...-tracking.html Yeah, but I'm old school. I got rid of my APS-C cameras for FF because I prefer that format I grew up with it and learned on. And while I like the smaller lenses of mirrorless cameras, I don't like their small bodies. They are too small for me. Right now I have a pretty good fit for my casual and candid camera. It is FF, has excellent low light, fast enough focus and acceptable size primes. What I would like more if the sensor tech would improve to get more dynamic range at high ISO. And, again, right now the camera I have is rated pretty good for that too compared to the vast majority of cameras out there.

03-11-2014, 07:44 AM	#29
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by tuco Yeah, but I'm old school. I got rid of my APS-C cameras for FF because I prefer that format I grew up with it and learned on. And while I like the smaller lenses of mirrorless cameras, I don't like their small bodies. They are too small for me. Right now I have a pretty good fit for my casual and candid camera. It is FF, has excellent low light, fast enough focus and acceptable size primes. What I would like more if the sensor tech would improve to get more dynamic range at high ISO. And, again, right now the camera I have is rated pretty good for that too compared to the vast majority of cameras out there. Quote: In the first video, the guy says 14 stops of DR across ALL ISO sensitivities. Now that's a killer feature. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/249...ml#post2662857 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/249...ml#post2728026 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/250851-new-pentax-6...os-sensor.html

03-11-2014, 07:48 AM	#30
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,020	Please, give me some credit for knowing what new cameras are being announced. Like it has not been posted all over the place already.