A new FF for under $1000 ???

kooks · 01-20-2015, 01:00 PM

I just read a few days ago that Sony is thinking about releasing a really basic FF camera for under $1000. Rumors said that it will be part of an A5 series... mmmmm this will make Canikons think twice about their FF prices for the future.. And Pentax.. where will Pentax stand agains this?? :O :O

Dont know how basic the camera is, but for the price is not going to be at all nothing compared with for example the A7ii

Rumors: Sony A5 Cheap Full Frame E-mount Mirrorless for $799 ! | Camera News at Cameraegg

A Super Cheap FF E-mount Mirrorless (Sony A5) Rumored for $799

Double Full Frame rumors: A5 for 799 Euro and new Leica Monochrome in February. | Mirrorless Rumors

mrNewt · 01-20-2015, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by kooks

And Pentax.. where will Pentax stand agains this??

Nowhere... Pentax is doooooooomed!!!!

**sholtzma** · 01-20-2015, 01:22 PM

Personally, I'd rather Ricoh not put FF in a mirrorless camera. The K-3 would seem to be a perfectly good form factor for a FF version. It might not be marketable for under $1000, but if the price can be under $1500, that might be good enough. Such a camera would have lots of advantages, I would think, over a Sony, in terms of size, features, performance.

Kunzite · 01-20-2015, 01:25 PM

The sky is falling! Run to the caves!
SAR (which probably made it up, together with most of their rumors

) is calling it an "SR2", pretty much every rumor can get at least that ranking unless it's outrageously ridiculous. Yet Pentax should "stand against this".

Let's not forget, the 645z was also declared beaten by a rumored Sony medium format which is still MIA, and that was an "SR3".

Biro · 01-20-2015, 02:13 PM - **1 Like**

The rumored FF Sony looks like an A6000. That would work nicely - as long as the camera included an integrated EVF, built-in flash and a hot shoe. Pentax? I've stopped wondering about FF from them quite a while ago. That doesn't mean that it's not going to happen and I will continue to use my Pentax K-5, K-5 IIs and Ricoh GR in the meantime. But it's almost like Ricoh is running Pentax as a hobby. Maybe that's a good thing. Hobbies don't always have to be profitable.

**boriscleto** · 01-20-2015, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Let's not forget, the 645z was also declared beaten by a rumored Sony medium format which is still MIA, and that was an "SR3".

Or the endlessly rumored Canon medium format.

rawr · 01-20-2015, 03:21 PM

In Australia in late 2014, I saw the A7 for sale new at less than AUD$1000 (= much less than USD$1000) when the A7 was on run-out, and combined with store discounts. The total A7 price could end up even less if puchasers put the free bundled Metabones lens adapter for sale on eBay, which a lot of buyers seem to have done.

So at least locally, a full-featured sub $1000 FF has already happened. Depending on exchange rates, I guess, it would not surprise me the least to see it happen again in 2015. Sony in particular can be a very aggressive price setter.

Kunzite · 01-20-2015, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Or the endlessly rumored Canon medium format.

Sony. Canon. Olympus. Nikon. Fuji. Samsung.

**Spodeworld** · 01-20-2015, 03:34 PM

Agree with Sholtzma. Pentax should develop a mirrorless FF camera. Going head to head with NIkon, Canon and Sony would be especially hard as they have been in this market for years. Mirrorless FF is new territory, and if Pentax does it right, they could stake a claim quickly. They would have to really up their game with AF though.

kadajawi · 01-20-2015, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Spodeworld

Agree with Sholtzma. Pentax should develop a mirrorless FF camera. Going head to head with NIkon, Canon and Sony would be especially hard as they have been in this market for years. Mirrorless FF is new territory, and if Pentax does it right, they could stake a claim quickly. They would have to really up their game with AF though.

The AF sensors are on the sensor anyway these days, if Pentax choses the right sensor. It's only a matter of the right software, I suppose.

I would like to see a proper mirrorless from Pentax, though I don't know if Pentax can do it at this point. The suppliers they rely on aren't exactly the most advanced there is, especially in terms of processor, so we might get a mirrorless camera with a sub par EVF that has a lot of lag, for example, while Samsung has been able to eliminate lag thanks to their very fast processor (which Pentax probably can't get).

cali92rs · 01-20-2015, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Spodeworld

....and if Pentax does it right, they could stake a claim quickly.....

Pentax and the word "quickly" do not belong in the same sentence

Kunzite · 01-21-2015, 01:15 AM

Developing a camera would take a few years (e.g. Samsung recently stated 3, for the NX1); is that quick enough?

Anyway, the MILC market is crowded enough so that competing on it is not easier than on the DSLR market. On the contrary, I'd say it's harder - without the support of a loyal user base.

Spodeworld, you agree with Sholtzma that "Pentax should develop a mirrorless FF camera", but Sholtzma said" "Personally, I'd rather Ricoh not put FF in a mirrorless camera.". It's a bit confusing...

Clavius · 01-21-2015, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

SAR (which probably made it up, together with most of their rumors ) is calling it an "SR2", pretty much every rumor can get at least that ranking unless it's outrageously ridiculous.

Sony did have this one patented though: Sony ?????????NEX-5?????????????So-net??? So the rumor isn't as unlikely as you try to claim.

Originally posted by Kunzite

Let's not forget, the 645z was also declared beaten by a rumored Sony medium format which is still MIA, and that was an "SR3".

Let see, the 645D went from rumor to fruition in... Well we all know how long that took. So, now you're expecting Sony to market a medium format in under three months? I know you think highly of Sony, but lets not overdo it.

---------- Post added 21-01-15 at 09:41 ----------

Originally posted by Kunzite

Anyway, the MILC market is crowded enough so that competing on it is not easier than on the DSLR market.

Wouldn't competition on a free market drive prices down, exactly as claimed by the rumors?

kadajawi · 01-21-2015, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Developing a camera would take a few years (e.g. Samsung recently stated 3, for the NX1); is that quick enough?

Anyway, the MILC market is crowded enough so that competing on it is not easier than on the DSLR market. On the contrary, I'd say it's harder - without the support of a loyal user base.

Spodeworld, you agree with Sholtzma that "Pentax should develop a mirrorless FF camera", but Sholtzma said" "Personally, I'd rather Ricoh not put FF in a mirrorless camera.". It's a bit confusing...

3 years sounds about in line what I think I recall other companies have said. That Samsung did the NX1 in 3 years is impressive IMHO... they do have lots of resources.

I think it is actually good that mirrorless doesn't have a loyal user base. It levels the field. People are going to the system that has the best overall package, and since everyone is starting new it's easier to establish yourself. You don't have to fight against a 30 year head start. The loyal Pentax user base is pretty small.

IMHO mirrorless is going to win over DSLRs, so the advantage Canikon have is going away. The sooner you build up a loyal user base and a solid mirrorless lens line up the better. IMHO.

Kunzite · 01-21-2015, 05:29 AM

3 years, on a stable company, and maybe they had previous research leading onto that. Ricoh Imaging had to struggle with the merger of Pentax Imaging Systems and Ricoh's own camera division, and with fixing the sorry state they were left in by Hoya. Only 3 years and 3 months passed since Ricoh took control... we should keep that in mind. Yet we had the K-3 and the 645z.

"IMHO mirrorless is going to win over DSLRs" - perhaps, eventually. Perhaps photography and cameras will be banned altogether, before that.
Right now I'm glad I can still choose a superior solution

Originally posted by Clavius

Sony did have this one patented though: Sony ?????????NEX-5?????????????So-net??? So the rumor isn't as unlikely as you try to claim.

They patented a FF camera under $1000? Are you sure, I mean, really sure about that? As in: can you point it out?

The patent predates the first FF "NEX" cameras, so it might simply refer to that.

Originally posted by Clavius

Let see, the 645D went from rumor to fruition in... Well we all know how long that took. So, now you're expecting Sony to market a medium format in under three months? I know you think highly of Sony, but lets not overdo it.

I was talking about the 645Z, and in a completely different context.

Originally posted by Clavius

Wouldn't competition on a free market drive prices down, exactly as claimed by the rumors?

You mean, making it harder for Ricoh Imaging to make a profit on that market? Sure.
I disagree with the "exactly as claimed by the rumors".

01-20-2015, 01:00 PM	#1
kooks Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San José, Costa Rica Photos: Albums Posts: 794	A new FF for under $1000 ??? I just read a few days ago that Sony is thinking about releasing a really basic FF camera for under $1000. Rumors said that it will be part of an A5 series... mmmmm this will make Canikons think twice about their FF prices for the future.. And Pentax.. where will Pentax stand agains this?? :O :O Dont know how basic the camera is, but for the price is not going to be at all nothing compared with for example the A7ii Rumors: Sony A5 Cheap Full Frame E-mount Mirrorless for $799 ! \| Camera News at Cameraegg A Super Cheap FF E-mount Mirrorless (Sony A5) Rumored for $799 Double Full Frame rumors: A5 for 799 Euro and new Leica Monochrome in February. \| Mirrorless Rumors

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01-20-2015, 01:03 PM	#2
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by kooks And Pentax.. where will Pentax stand agains this?? Nowhere... Pentax is doooooooomed!!!!

01-20-2015, 01:22 PM	#3
sholtzma Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Salisbury, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,043	Personally, I'd rather Ricoh not put FF in a mirrorless camera. The K-3 would seem to be a perfectly good form factor for a FF version. It might not be marketable for under $1000, but if the price can be under $1500, that might be good enough. Such a camera would have lots of advantages, I would think, over a Sony, in terms of size, features, performance.

01-20-2015, 01:25 PM	#4
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	The sky is falling! Run to the caves! SAR (which probably made it up, together with most of their rumors ) is calling it an "SR2", pretty much every rumor can get at least that ranking unless it's outrageously ridiculous. Yet Pentax should "stand against this". Let's not forget, the 645z was also declared beaten by a rumored Sony medium format which is still MIA, and that was an "SR3".

01-20-2015, 02:13 PM - 1 Like	#5
Biro Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,200	The rumored FF Sony looks like an A6000. That would work nicely - as long as the camera included an integrated EVF, built-in flash and a hot shoe. Pentax? I've stopped wondering about FF from them quite a while ago. That doesn't mean that it's not going to happen and I will continue to use my Pentax K-5, K-5 IIs and Ricoh GR in the meantime. But it's almost like Ricoh is running Pentax as a hobby. Maybe that's a good thing. Hobbies don't always have to be profitable.

01-20-2015, 02:20 PM	#6
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by Kunzite Let's not forget, the 645z was also declared beaten by a rumored Sony medium format which is still MIA, and that was an "SR3". Or the endlessly rumored Canon medium format.

01-20-2015, 03:21 PM	#7
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	In Australia in late 2014, I saw the A7 for sale new at less than AUD$1000 (= much less than USD$1000) when the A7 was on run-out, and combined with store discounts. The total A7 price could end up even less if puchasers put the free bundled Metabones lens adapter for sale on eBay, which a lot of buyers seem to have done. So at least locally, a full-featured sub $1000 FF has already happened. Depending on exchange rates, I guess, it would not surprise me the least to see it happen again in 2015. Sony in particular can be a very aggressive price setter.

01-20-2015, 03:31 PM	#8
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by boriscleto Or the endlessly rumored Canon medium format. Sony. Canon. Olympus. Nikon. Fuji. Samsung.

01-20-2015, 03:34 PM	#9
Spodeworld Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New Joisey Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,370	Agree with Sholtzma. Pentax should develop a mirrorless FF camera. Going head to head with NIkon, Canon and Sony would be especially hard as they have been in this market for years. Mirrorless FF is new territory, and if Pentax does it right, they could stake a claim quickly. They would have to really up their game with AF though.

01-20-2015, 04:20 PM	#10
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by Spodeworld Agree with Sholtzma. Pentax should develop a mirrorless FF camera. Going head to head with NIkon, Canon and Sony would be especially hard as they have been in this market for years. Mirrorless FF is new territory, and if Pentax does it right, they could stake a claim quickly. They would have to really up their game with AF though. The AF sensors are on the sensor anyway these days, if Pentax choses the right sensor. It's only a matter of the right software, I suppose. I would like to see a proper mirrorless from Pentax, though I don't know if Pentax can do it at this point. The suppliers they rely on aren't exactly the most advanced there is, especially in terms of processor, so we might get a mirrorless camera with a sub par EVF that has a lot of lag, for example, while Samsung has been able to eliminate lag thanks to their very fast processor (which Pentax probably can't get).

01-20-2015, 04:48 PM	#11
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	Originally posted by Spodeworld ....and if Pentax does it right, they could stake a claim quickly..... Pentax and the word "quickly" do not belong in the same sentence

01-21-2015, 01:15 AM	#12
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Developing a camera would take a few years (e.g. Samsung recently stated 3, for the NX1); is that quick enough? Anyway, the MILC market is crowded enough so that competing on it is not easier than on the DSLR market. On the contrary, I'd say it's harder - without the support of a loyal user base. Spodeworld, you agree with Sholtzma that "Pentax should develop a mirrorless FF camera", but Sholtzma said" "Personally, I'd rather Ricoh not put FF in a mirrorless camera.". It's a bit confusing...

01-21-2015, 01:36 AM	#13
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Kunzite SAR (which probably made it up, together with most of their rumors ) is calling it an "SR2", pretty much every rumor can get at least that ranking unless it's outrageously ridiculous. Sony did have this one patented though: Sony ?????????NEX-5?????????????So-net??? So the rumor isn't as unlikely as you try to claim. Originally posted by Kunzite Let's not forget, the 645z was also declared beaten by a rumored Sony medium format which is still MIA, and that was an "SR3". Let see, the 645D went from rumor to fruition in... Well we all know how long that took. So, now you're expecting Sony to market a medium format in under three months? I know you think highly of Sony, but lets not overdo it. ---------- Post added 21-01-15 at 09:41 ---------- Originally posted by Kunzite Anyway, the MILC market is crowded enough so that competing on it is not easier than on the DSLR market. Wouldn't competition on a free market drive prices down, exactly as claimed by the rumors?

01-21-2015, 01:49 AM	#14
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by Kunzite Developing a camera would take a few years (e.g. Samsung recently stated 3, for the NX1); is that quick enough? Anyway, the MILC market is crowded enough so that competing on it is not easier than on the DSLR market. On the contrary, I'd say it's harder - without the support of a loyal user base. Spodeworld, you agree with Sholtzma that "Pentax should develop a mirrorless FF camera", but Sholtzma said" "Personally, I'd rather Ricoh not put FF in a mirrorless camera.". It's a bit confusing... 3 years sounds about in line what I think I recall other companies have said. That Samsung did the NX1 in 3 years is impressive IMHO... they do have lots of resources. I think it is actually good that mirrorless doesn't have a loyal user base. It levels the field. People are going to the system that has the best overall package, and since everyone is starting new it's easier to establish yourself. You don't have to fight against a 30 year head start. The loyal Pentax user base is pretty small. IMHO mirrorless is going to win over DSLRs, so the advantage Canikon have is going away. The sooner you build up a loyal user base and a solid mirrorless lens line up the better. IMHO.

01-21-2015, 05:29 AM	#15
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	3 years, on a stable company, and maybe they had previous research leading onto that. Ricoh Imaging had to struggle with the merger of Pentax Imaging Systems and Ricoh's own camera division, and with fixing the sorry state they were left in by Hoya. Only 3 years and 3 months passed since Ricoh took control... we should keep that in mind. Yet we had the K-3 and the 645z. "IMHO mirrorless is going to win over DSLRs" - perhaps, eventually. Perhaps photography and cameras will be banned altogether, before that. Right now I'm glad I can still choose a superior solution Originally posted by Clavius Sony did have this one patented though: Sony ?????????NEX-5?????????????So-net??? So the rumor isn't as unlikely as you try to claim. They patented a FF camera under $1000? Are you sure, I mean, really sure about that? As in: can you point it out? The patent predates the first FF "NEX" cameras, so it might simply refer to that. Originally posted by Clavius Let see, the 645D went from rumor to fruition in... Well we all know how long that took. So, now you're expecting Sony to market a medium format in under three months? I know you think highly of Sony, but lets not overdo it. I was talking about the 645Z, and in a completely different context. Originally posted by Clavius Wouldn't competition on a free market drive prices down, exactly as claimed by the rumors? You mean, making it harder for Ricoh Imaging to make a profit on that market? Sure. I disagree with the "exactly as claimed by the rumors".