Lenses Are About to Get Smaller and Better - Flat Optics

Winder · 03-08-2015, 07:16 PM - **1 Like**

https://fstoppers.com/gear/lenses-are-about-get-smaller-and-better-thanks-ha...t-optics-60674

MadMathMind · 03-08-2015, 08:14 PM - **1 Like**

So professors at Harvard managed to change the laws of physics and economics of manufacturing? Sounds like a Nobel prize is in the future...

...or the article is a bit more hype than reality.

**luftfluss** · 03-08-2015, 08:17 PM

NSA, I bet they're all over this.

**MSL** · 03-09-2015, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by MadMathMind

So professors at Harvard managed to change the laws of physics

No, they haven't changed the laws of physics. But metamaterials (or metasurfaces) let you do things that can't be done with a single ordinary material. For example, you can create materials with a negative index of refraction, or make perfect lenses (for particular wavelengths).

Rupert · 03-09-2015, 06:42 AM - **2 Likes**

I'm betting I can still take crummy pictures with them just like I do now! Wanna bet?

Regards!

Clavius · 03-09-2015, 06:50 AM

I really enjoy living in this day age. I've given up on trying to understand everything they come up with.

**Rondec** · 03-09-2015, 07:02 AM

Interesting.

I'm sure it will be years before such tech "hits the street" and even then, probably traditional lens designs will end up being cheaper, at least till they sort out manufacturing processes necessary to mass produce them.

rawr · 03-09-2015, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

NSA, I bet they're all over this.

No, not NSA. More likely NRO.

They would have been on top of this tech years ago. But it wouldn't be public.

cali92rs · 03-09-2015, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by MadMathMind

So professors at Harvard managed to change the laws of physics and economics of manufacturing? Sounds like a Nobel prize is in the future...

...or the article is a bit more hype than reality.

...or you didn't actually read the article and they aren't saying they changed physics nor manufacturing processes.

jack002 · 03-09-2015, 11:43 AM

They have not changed physics, but have invented a new "thing" that acts like a lens but doesn't refract but reflect with tiny mirrors. It is fascinating and I'd love to hear more about it and see it come to the marketplace

MadMathMind · 03-09-2015, 04:36 PM - **1 Like**

Geez, can't you guys detect sarcasm?

My PhD research involved metamaterials and nonlinear optics. Most research on them is fairly incremental--yet written up in the introduction to the paper as the biggest discovery since fission--and whenever anyone writes a promotional article about this stuff, the claims of what it can actually do are usually based on what the authors claim it can do eventually. Reality is that it will take a few more years and a half dozen papers before anything really comes of it.

Originally posted by MSL

No, they haven't changed the laws of physics. But metamaterials (or metasurfaces) let you do things that can't be done with a single ordinary material. For example, you can create materials with a negative index of refraction, or make perfect lenses (for particular wavelengths).

Metals have negative index of refraction. Well, in the Drude model they do. But that can be a little rough for some applications. More properly, they are complex valued, but if you're only after the phase and aren't worried about attenuation (because you're in the regime where your wave won't be extinguished). The big draw of metamaterials is that you do some really wacky things with bandgap filters, amplification of certain frequencies, etc. that you can't do with single materials.

**MSL** · 03-09-2015, 04:48 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MadMathMind

Geez, can't you guys detect sarcasm?

ALL THE TIME, when someone writes in a sarcastic way... (didya catch my sarcasm there, did ya? did ya?)

The fstoppers article is well written and without much hype, aside from the title which was probably handled by an editor rather than the author of the article.

The article on the Harvard web site is completely over the top, and properly hyped just like those written by any other university press office as it is their job to help the research and alumni dollars flowing in.

And yes, I could have gotten a lot more technical in my response, but unless you've had some exposure to metamaterials they can hard to understand because they do seem to allow you to violate laws of optics or mechanics, until you get a better understanding of how they work.

Winder · 03-10-2015, 08:16 PM

Flat elements developed by Harvard could make camera lenses smaller, lighter and better: Digital Photography Review

SpecialK · 03-10-2015, 08:32 PM

But, will it be compatible with FF?

03-08-2015, 07:16 PM - 1 Like	#1
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Lenses Are About to Get Smaller and Better - Flat Optics https://fstoppers.com/gear/lenses-are-about-get-smaller-and-better-thanks-ha...t-optics-60674

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
why are pics smaller ?	Cee Cee	Site Suggestions and Help	5	08-04-2014 06:03 PM
Why Pentax lenses are smaller than ones from Nikon or Canon?	kitestring	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	32	09-13-2013 12:54 PM
Ready to get better at photography	blueturfbronco	Welcomes and Introductions	4	07-16-2013 04:12 PM
21mm and 40mm Ltd. Which has better optics?	Reportage	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	6	03-19-2009 04:33 PM

03-08-2015, 08:14 PM - 1 Like	#2
MadMathMind Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,717	So professors at Harvard managed to change the laws of physics and economics of manufacturing? Sounds like a Nobel prize is in the future... ...or the article is a bit more hype than reality.

03-08-2015, 08:17 PM	#3
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,627	NSA, I bet they're all over this.

03-09-2015, 06:29 AM	#4
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,756	Originally posted by MadMathMind So professors at Harvard managed to change the laws of physics No, they haven't changed the laws of physics. But metamaterials (or metasurfaces) let you do things that can't be done with a single ordinary material. For example, you can create materials with a negative index of refraction, or make perfect lenses (for particular wavelengths).

03-09-2015, 06:42 AM - 2 Likes	#5
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	I'm betting I can still take crummy pictures with them just like I do now! Wanna bet? Regards!

03-09-2015, 06:50 AM	#6
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	I really enjoy living in this day age. I've given up on trying to understand everything they come up with.

03-09-2015, 07:02 AM	#7
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Interesting. I'm sure it will be years before such tech "hits the street" and even then, probably traditional lens designs will end up being cheaper, at least till they sort out manufacturing processes necessary to mass produce them.

03-09-2015, 07:07 AM	#8
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by luftfluss NSA, I bet they're all over this. No, not NSA. More likely NRO. They would have been on top of this tech years ago. But it wouldn't be public.

03-09-2015, 11:06 AM	#9
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	Originally posted by MadMathMind So professors at Harvard managed to change the laws of physics and economics of manufacturing? Sounds like a Nobel prize is in the future... ...or the article is a bit more hype than reality. ...or you didn't actually read the article and they aren't saying they changed physics nor manufacturing processes.

03-09-2015, 11:43 AM	#10
jack002 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Missouri Photos: Albums Posts: 727	They have not changed physics, but have invented a new "thing" that acts like a lens but doesn't refract but reflect with tiny mirrors. It is fascinating and I'd love to hear more about it and see it come to the marketplace

03-09-2015, 04:36 PM - 1 Like	#11
MadMathMind Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,717	Geez, can't you guys detect sarcasm? My PhD research involved metamaterials and nonlinear optics. Most research on them is fairly incremental--yet written up in the introduction to the paper as the biggest discovery since fission--and whenever anyone writes a promotional article about this stuff, the claims of what it can actually do are usually based on what the authors claim it can do eventually. Reality is that it will take a few more years and a half dozen papers before anything really comes of it. Originally posted by MSL No, they haven't changed the laws of physics. But metamaterials (or metasurfaces) let you do things that can't be done with a single ordinary material. For example, you can create materials with a negative index of refraction, or make perfect lenses (for particular wavelengths). Metals have negative index of refraction. Well, in the Drude model they do. But that can be a little rough for some applications. More properly, they are complex valued, but if you're only after the phase and aren't worried about attenuation (because you're in the regime where your wave won't be extinguished). The big draw of metamaterials is that you do some really wacky things with bandgap filters, amplification of certain frequencies, etc. that you can't do with single materials.

03-09-2015, 04:48 PM - 1 Like	#12
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,756	Originally posted by MadMathMind Geez, can't you guys detect sarcasm? ALL THE TIME, when someone writes in a sarcastic way... (didya catch my sarcasm there, did ya? did ya?) The fstoppers article is well written and without much hype, aside from the title which was probably handled by an editor rather than the author of the article. The article on the Harvard web site is completely over the top, and properly hyped just like those written by any other university press office as it is their job to help the research and alumni dollars flowing in. And yes, I could have gotten a lot more technical in my response, but unless you've had some exposure to metamaterials they can hard to understand because they do seem to allow you to violate laws of optics or mechanics, until you get a better understanding of how they work.

03-10-2015, 08:16 PM	#13
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Flat elements developed by Harvard could make camera lenses smaller, lighter and better: Digital Photography Review

03-10-2015, 08:32 PM	#14
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,482	But, will it be compatible with FF?