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D1N0 · 04-14-2015, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

Unlike DXOMark scores, DPR scores are highly subjective and vary over time (83% this year would not score the same next year). DPR scores are no indication of anything except the reviewer's personal opinion.

As if Kings are crowned on the basis of sound statistics.

jaad75 · 04-15-2015, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

There is some argument about whether the DXO score for the D7200 is correct, because supposedly dynamic range goes beyond what a 14-bit sensor should manage.

It is still below 14EV (13.79 EV), so it is possible, at least in theory. The problem is they give their summary scores for print normalized photos (i.e. downscaled to 8MPix), so you need to look at Measurements tab and click on Screen, to get the real results.

falconeye · 04-15-2015, 02:21 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jaad75

It is still below 14EV (13.79 EV), so it is possible, at least in theory.

I believe, the theoretical max. for pixel-level DR using the DxO definition (SNR=0) is 14.3EV for a 14Bit ADC. I may be wrong though because this applies to sine wave signals, not a random signal.

biz-engineer · 04-15-2015, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

I believe, the theoretical max. for pixel-level DR using the DxO definition (SNR=0) is 14.3EV for a 14Bit ADC. I may be wrong though because this applies to sine wave signals, not a random signal.

How do you get 14.3 EV based on a 14bits ADC ?

falconeye · 04-17-2015, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

How do you get 14.3 EV based on a 14bits ADC ?

You have to properly compute quantization noise. It is not as straightforward as you seem to think. You have to find the luminosity where quantization noise equals the signal. For sine-wave signals (audio) it is 0.29 bits above the ADC bit depth. For luminosity data with Poisson distribution (photon shot noise) I couldn't find the corresponding mathematical treatment.

biz-engineer · 04-17-2015, 07:26 AM

For me, if a 14 bits ADC is used and cover the full scale of the photo diode cell, 14 bits equals 14ev. I don't differentiate noise sources thermal noise versus shot noise. I dont know how DXO measure their dynamic range, but i find that my K-3 has much less DR than I would expect: from black to blown, I get max 7ev or 8ev.

jaad75 · 04-17-2015, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

but i find that my K-3 has much less DR than I would expect: from black to blown, I get max 7ev or 8ev.

For 8-bit JPG, definitely. :P From the lowest ISO RAW you get about 10-11 stops - last to bits in the shadows from DxO measurements are almost useless.

neostyles · 04-17-2015, 07:27 PM

Nikon doesnt seem to be moving ahead as much as i would want. They are making small baby steps where as sony is leaping ahead by massive bounds. They arent making as much an effort to compete with canon's cinema line either. I would love to see an answer to the 1DC. We're not really seeing huge increase in continuous shooting speeds either unfortunately. The 7dmk2 packs a whopping 10 fps where as with each new release, nikon seems to bump up the fps by one or so. Awhile back they even said that they didnt see the need for a mirrorless camera with a large sensor...

Look at the cool stuff samsung is doing.. 120 fps movie's at 1080p, having a button on the lens that gives you quick access all your settings. This is innovation.

jaad75 · 04-17-2015, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by neostyles

They arent making as much an effort to compete with canon's cinema line either. I would love to see an answer to the 1DC. We're not really seeing huge increase in continuous shooting speeds either unfortunately

They couldn't - their EXPEED 4 is basically the Milbeaut 7 processor (almost the same as the PRIME III) and they could not do things the processor wasn't capable of.

Originally posted by neostyles

Look at the cool stuff samsung is doing.. 120 fps movie's at 1080p

The same as the newest Milbeaut 8 - and 4K@30p...

Stavri · 04-23-2015, 07:59 AM

video comparison of the K3iis and D7200 features..

You Tube

audiobomber · 04-23-2015, 08:22 AM

The video doesn't mention that Wi-Fi is available for the K-3 II, which equalizes the cost.

What the hell is Flat Picture Control?

Don't most people like star trails?

D7200 metering:
0 to 20 EV (3D color matrix or center-weighted metering)
2 to 20 EV (Spot metering at ISO 100 equivalent, f/1.4 lens at 20°C/68°F)

K-3 metering
-3 to 20 EV (ISO 100, 50mm F1.4)

D1N0 · 04-23-2015, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

T

What the hell is Flat Picture Control?

low contrast dull colours that you can pump up in post so your movie looks pro

audiobomber · 04-23-2015, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

low contrast dull colours that you can pump up in post so your movie looks pro

If they're going to mention specialty items, they should have mentioned the K-3's sensor shift features; tilt and horizon level.
They mentioned the D7200 is lighter but not why (K-3 has a full metal case, the D7200 doesn't).

D1N0 · 04-23-2015, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

If they're going to mention specialty items, they should have mentioned the K-3's sensor shift features; tilt and horizon level.
They mentioned the D7200 is lighter but not why (K-3 has a full metal case, the D7200 doesn't).

Shame on them. They're just a youtube channel trying to get as much views as possible. no reason to get worked up about it.

audiobomber · 04-23-2015, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

Shame on them. They're just a youtube channel trying to get as much views as possible. no reason to get worked up about it.

I can assure you, I am not worked up about it. It seems they know more about Nikon than Pentax though.

04-17-2015, 06:08 AM	#35
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by biz-engineer How do you get 14.3 EV based on a 14bits ADC ? You have to properly compute quantization noise. It is not as straightforward as you seem to think. You have to find the luminosity where quantization noise equals the signal. For sine-wave signals (audio) it is 0.29 bits above the ADC bit depth. For luminosity data with Poisson distribution (photon shot noise) I couldn't find the corresponding mathematical treatment. Last edited by falconeye; 04-17-2015 at 06:14 AM.

04-23-2015, 08:22 AM	#41
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	The video doesn't mention that Wi-Fi is available for the K-3 II, which equalizes the cost. What the hell is Flat Picture Control? Don't most people like star trails? D7200 metering: 0 to 20 EV (3D color matrix or center-weighted metering) 2 to 20 EV (Spot metering at ISO 100 equivalent, f/1.4 lens at 20°C/68°F) K-3 metering -3 to 20 EV (ISO 100, 50mm F1.4) Last edited by audiobomber; 04-23-2015 at 08:28 AM.

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04-14-2015, 10:07 AM	#31
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by audiobomber Unlike DXOMark scores, DPR scores are highly subjective and vary over time (83% this year would not score the same next year). DPR scores are no indication of anything except the reviewer's personal opinion. As if Kings are crowned on the basis of sound statistics.

04-15-2015, 12:37 AM	#32
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by audiobomber There is some argument about whether the DXO score for the D7200 is correct, because supposedly dynamic range goes beyond what a 14-bit sensor should manage. It is still below 14EV (13.79 EV), so it is possible, at least in theory. The problem is they give their summary scores for print normalized photos (i.e. downscaled to 8MPix), so you need to look at Measurements tab and click on Screen, to get the real results.

04-15-2015, 02:21 PM - 1 Like	#33
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by jaad75 It is still below 14EV (13.79 EV), so it is possible, at least in theory. I believe, the theoretical max. for pixel-level DR using the DxO definition (SNR=0) is 14.3EV for a 14Bit ADC. I may be wrong though because this applies to sine wave signals, not a random signal.

04-15-2015, 10:38 PM	#34
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,249	Originally posted by falconeye I believe, the theoretical max. for pixel-level DR using the DxO definition (SNR=0) is 14.3EV for a 14Bit ADC. I may be wrong though because this applies to sine wave signals, not a random signal. How do you get 14.3 EV based on a 14bits ADC ?

04-17-2015, 07:26 AM	#36
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,249	For me, if a 14 bits ADC is used and cover the full scale of the photo diode cell, 14 bits equals 14ev. I don't differentiate noise sources thermal noise versus shot noise. I dont know how DXO measure their dynamic range, but i find that my K-3 has much less DR than I would expect: from black to blown, I get max 7ev or 8ev.

04-17-2015, 10:46 AM	#37
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by biz-engineer but i find that my K-3 has much less DR than I would expect: from black to blown, I get max 7ev or 8ev. For 8-bit JPG, definitely. :P From the lowest ISO RAW you get about 10-11 stops - last to bits in the shadows from DxO measurements are almost useless.

04-17-2015, 07:27 PM	#38
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445	Nikon doesnt seem to be moving ahead as much as i would want. They are making small baby steps where as sony is leaping ahead by massive bounds. They arent making as much an effort to compete with canon's cinema line either. I would love to see an answer to the 1DC. We're not really seeing huge increase in continuous shooting speeds either unfortunately. The 7dmk2 packs a whopping 10 fps where as with each new release, nikon seems to bump up the fps by one or so. Awhile back they even said that they didnt see the need for a mirrorless camera with a large sensor... Look at the cool stuff samsung is doing.. 120 fps movie's at 1080p, having a button on the lens that gives you quick access all your settings. This is innovation.

04-17-2015, 10:30 PM	#39
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by neostyles They arent making as much an effort to compete with canon's cinema line either. I would love to see an answer to the 1DC. We're not really seeing huge increase in continuous shooting speeds either unfortunately They couldn't - their EXPEED 4 is basically the Milbeaut 7 processor (almost the same as the PRIME III) and they could not do things the processor wasn't capable of. Originally posted by neostyles Look at the cool stuff samsung is doing.. 120 fps movie's at 1080p The same as the newest Milbeaut 8 - and 4K@30p...

04-23-2015, 08:34 AM	#42
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by audiobomber T What the hell is Flat Picture Control? low contrast dull colours that you can pump up in post so your movie looks pro

04-23-2015, 09:45 AM	#43
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by D1N0 low contrast dull colours that you can pump up in post so your movie looks pro If they're going to mention specialty items, they should have mentioned the K-3's sensor shift features; tilt and horizon level. They mentioned the D7200 is lighter but not why (K-3 has a full metal case, the D7200 doesn't).

04-23-2015, 09:52 AM	#44
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by audiobomber If they're going to mention specialty items, they should have mentioned the K-3's sensor shift features; tilt and horizon level. They mentioned the D7200 is lighter but not why (K-3 has a full metal case, the D7200 doesn't). Shame on them. They're just a youtube channel trying to get as much views as possible. no reason to get worked up about it.

04-23-2015, 11:25 AM	#45
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by D1N0 Shame on them. They're just a youtube channel trying to get as much views as possible. no reason to get worked up about it. I can assure you, I am not worked up about it. It seems they know more about Nikon than Pentax though.

All Hail the New King!

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