1 inch sensor performance.. low light?

neostyles · 06-21-2015, 01:49 PM

Hey all stumbled across the annoucnement of the sony rx10ii the other day and i fell in love. 4k in camera and 1000 fps shooting for something that is cheaper than my d600 (or atleast when i got it). Only thing though is the sensor isnt even aps c sized Thing is though it is the newest technology and from what ive heard the a77ii (the other camera im considereding) is basically equal to ff from a few years ago. SO does anyone have any thoughts on the one inch sensor size. Would primarily be buying the rx10ii to shoot video but would occasionally shoot stills. Worth noting i have been impressed with the peformance of my lenovo smart phone (came out last year i think) and it delivers pretty good results and the senor is probably the size of a tic tac.

Adam · 06-21-2015, 02:48 PM

I have the RX100 III and I'm very satisfied with the image quality. During the day it's superb. At higher ISOs it obviously falls short of a DSLR's performance, but it's still perfectly usable.

jimr-pdx · 06-21-2015, 08:05 PM

I tried a Nikon 1 and was satisfied with subject isolation. For noise it was similar to 4/3rds from a year or so back, before Sony sensors arrived: it's OK but needs some extra work above 1600 or so depending on your level of tolerance. Samsung's nx300 walks all over it with aps.c sensor so the Nik1 is long gone..

neostyles · 06-21-2015, 08:40 PM

Theres a little grey area i feel like here though. I mean, the d600 has amazing low light capability for stills but thats just not there for video. Shot a small indoor graduation recently and i was only at iso 1000 and i still had to denoise the final product. At 720p its only 17 mb/sec which didnt really match the raw files either for being able to go in and mess with it to your hearts content. Up until now, it's canon has been the go to option for video and nikon for stills. I really love that we have an all around package with sony.

**clackers** · 06-21-2015, 09:54 PM

I've got the Samsung Mini NX.

I don't treat it seriously - I'm not afraid to do cartoon post processing with it.

This is at ISO 640, 1/30s, summertime in the 'Australian Alps'.

neostyles · 06-21-2015, 10:09 PM

Large sensor video cameras are relatively new though right? And many pro level video cameras have smaller sensors if im not mistaken?

neostyles · 06-26-2015, 01:15 PM

I feel like sensor size is becoming less and less relevant with the advances in technology and this is i think where sony really stands out from everyone else. For years canon/nikon have been playing the sensor size game. How many ff dslrs did nikon come out with in 2014 and the advances were all relatively minor up against mirror less. What sony is doing with the rx10 ii sensor was previously used to give tiny sensors in phones great low light performance and i cant wait to see how it works when used in a s sensor ~7x as big. Having a sensor that is a little bigger isnt nearly as exciting as something that can capture movies with no line skipping or capture rgb separately imo. Sony is breaking new ground and i think that is why they are working their way to the top

Not to mention my shooting style has largely changed. Coming off the k20d, a camera that came out when i was in high school, and i was afraid to push the iso over 400, when i got my d600 i couldnt wait to to take every shot at iso 1600+. It was like having a super power. These days, most of what i shoot is at iso 100. Occasionally on a cloudy day, i might go a little bit further but having a speed light has also really change the way that i shoot as well. Pro level gear has always had great low light performance but high iso is something that is only used in a punch i feel like. Here are some pictures from my phone whos sensor is probably not much bigger than dime

Last edited by neostyles; 09-09-2016 at 03:17 AM.

Rupert · 06-28-2015, 07:08 AM

Last year I was reading of some amazing new sensor technology from Fuji......then it just went dark and I haven't heard anything more. Was it all just hype or has anyone read anything lately about new Fuji sensors?

Regards!

john5100 · 06-28-2015, 12:45 PM

Actually most small sensor point and shoots can do well now. I have a sony HX30V and an Olympus XZ-10; both have a 1/2.3 sensor.

Sony at ISO1600

Chihuly Glass At The Seattle Center by John Rudolph, on Flickr

Oly at ISO 800

DISGUISE: MASKS & GLOBAL AFRICAN ART by John Rudolph, on Flickr

**Rondec** · 06-28-2015, 02:37 PM

I think as long as you shoot within its limitations, these cameras do fine. Obviously, they don't do much narrow depth of field photography and above iso 800, things start to look grainy, but they certainly look very nice at lower isos.

ChristianRock · 07-01-2015, 07:39 AM

The actual sensor area of the "1 inch" sensor has a diameter of about 0.625 inch. So why they call it one inch sensor, I don't know... same with the 2/3" sensor which is more like 0.4 inch and change...

Still, the technology is there that you can take great pictures and get good resolution and decent ISO performance from these sensors now - and even smaller, as proven by John5100...

rawr · 07-01-2015, 08:29 AM

There are, of course, ways to get great mileage out of small or even just old sensors:

You Tube

reeftool · 07-01-2015, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Rupert

Last year I was reading of some amazing new sensor technology from Fuji......then it just went dark and I haven't heard anything more. Was it all just hype or has anyone read anything lately about new Fuji sensors?

Regards!

I remember a couple of articles, one about a sensor with different sized pixels an another about an organic coated CMOS sensor project with Panasonic. They are both over a year old and a quick search didn't reveal any updates. Right now, Sony is getting all the press and hype. Fuji, Sigma, And Samsung are doing some amazing things in sensor design and getting pretty much ignored by the mainstream photography press. In all honesty, if I was to buy into a mirrorless system right now, the new Samsungs look pretty awesome.

How I see it......Fuji and Samsung are "consumer camera" manufacturers and while generally good, they aren't to be taken seriously. Sigma cameras are nice but a "niche" market item for photographers who want to carry something different. Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority of the public are taking pictures on camera phones and those tiny sensor cameras are getting better and better with each new model of phone. Add to that the fact that R&D and sales are being subsidized by the big phone carriers. They are going to sell millions of each new model because they are cheap to the public. Every 2 years, you just get a new phone for a hundred bucks and the camera is one of the big selling points. Little sensors are going to rule very soon and probably do now in terms of sales.

06-21-2015, 01:49 PM	#1
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445	1 inch sensor performance.. low light? Hey all stumbled across the annoucnement of the sony rx10ii the other day and i fell in love. 4k in camera and 1000 fps shooting for something that is cheaper than my d600 (or atleast when i got it). Only thing though is the sensor isnt even aps c sized Thing is though it is the newest technology and from what ive heard the a77ii (the other camera im considereding) is basically equal to ff from a few years ago. SO does anyone have any thoughts on the one inch sensor size. Would primarily be buying the rx10ii to shoot video but would occasionally shoot stills. Worth noting i have been impressed with the peformance of my lenovo smart phone (came out last year i think) and it delivers pretty good results and the senor is probably the size of a tic tac.

06-21-2015, 02:48 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	I have the RX100 III and I'm very satisfied with the image quality. During the day it's superb. At higher ISOs it obviously falls short of a DSLR's performance, but it's still perfectly usable. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

06-28-2015, 12:45 PM	#9
john5100 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,725	Actually most small sensor point and shoots can do well now. I have a sony HX30V and an Olympus XZ-10; both have a 1/2.3 sensor. Sony at ISO1600 Chihuly Glass At The Seattle Center by John Rudolph, on Flickr Oly at ISO 800 DISGUISE: MASKS & GLOBAL AFRICAN ART by John Rudolph, on Flickr Last edited by john5100; 06-28-2015 at 01:21 PM.

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06-21-2015, 08:05 PM	#3
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	I tried a Nikon 1 and was satisfied with subject isolation. For noise it was similar to 4/3rds from a year or so back, before Sony sensors arrived: it's OK but needs some extra work above 1600 or so depending on your level of tolerance. Samsung's nx300 walks all over it with aps.c sensor so the Nik1 is long gone..

06-21-2015, 08:40 PM	#4
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445 Original Poster	Theres a little grey area i feel like here though. I mean, the d600 has amazing low light capability for stills but thats just not there for video. Shot a small indoor graduation recently and i was only at iso 1000 and i still had to denoise the final product. At 720p its only 17 mb/sec which didnt really match the raw files either for being able to go in and mess with it to your hearts content. Up until now, it's canon has been the go to option for video and nikon for stills. I really love that we have an all around package with sony.

06-21-2015, 09:54 PM	#5
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	I've got the Samsung Mini NX. I don't treat it seriously - I'm not afraid to do cartoon post processing with it. This is at ISO 640, 1/30s, summertime in the 'Australian Alps'.

06-21-2015, 10:09 PM	#6
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445 Original Poster	Large sensor video cameras are relatively new though right? And many pro level video cameras have smaller sensors if im not mistaken?

06-26-2015, 01:15 PM	#7
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445 Original Poster	I feel like sensor size is becoming less and less relevant with the advances in technology and this is i think where sony really stands out from everyone else. For years canon/nikon have been playing the sensor size game. How many ff dslrs did nikon come out with in 2014 and the advances were all relatively minor up against mirror less. What sony is doing with the rx10 ii sensor was previously used to give tiny sensors in phones great low light performance and i cant wait to see how it works when used in a s sensor ~7x as big. Having a sensor that is a little bigger isnt nearly as exciting as something that can capture movies with no line skipping or capture rgb separately imo. Sony is breaking new ground and i think that is why they are working their way to the top Not to mention my shooting style has largely changed. Coming off the k20d, a camera that came out when i was in high school, and i was afraid to push the iso over 400, when i got my d600 i couldnt wait to to take every shot at iso 1600+. It was like having a super power. These days, most of what i shoot is at iso 100. Occasionally on a cloudy day, i might go a little bit further but having a speed light has also really change the way that i shoot as well. Pro level gear has always had great low light performance but high iso is something that is only used in a punch i feel like. Here are some pictures from my phone whos sensor is probably not much bigger than dime Last edited by neostyles; 09-09-2016 at 03:17 AM.

06-28-2015, 07:08 AM	#8
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Last year I was reading of some amazing new sensor technology from Fuji......then it just went dark and I haven't heard anything more. Was it all just hype or has anyone read anything lately about new Fuji sensors? Regards!

06-28-2015, 02:37 PM	#10
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I think as long as you shoot within its limitations, these cameras do fine. Obviously, they don't do much narrow depth of field photography and above iso 800, things start to look grainy, but they certainly look very nice at lower isos.

07-01-2015, 07:39 AM	#11
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	The actual sensor area of the "1 inch" sensor has a diameter of about 0.625 inch. So why they call it one inch sensor, I don't know... same with the 2/3" sensor which is more like 0.4 inch and change... Still, the technology is there that you can take great pictures and get good resolution and decent ISO performance from these sensors now - and even smaller, as proven by John5100...

07-01-2015, 09:33 AM	#13
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	Originally posted by Rupert Last year I was reading of some amazing new sensor technology from Fuji......then it just went dark and I haven't heard anything more. Was it all just hype or has anyone read anything lately about new Fuji sensors? Regards! I remember a couple of articles, one about a sensor with different sized pixels an another about an organic coated CMOS sensor project with Panasonic. They are both over a year old and a quick search didn't reveal any updates. Right now, Sony is getting all the press and hype. Fuji, Sigma, And Samsung are doing some amazing things in sensor design and getting pretty much ignored by the mainstream photography press. In all honesty, if I was to buy into a mirrorless system right now, the new Samsungs look pretty awesome. How I see it......Fuji and Samsung are "consumer camera" manufacturers and while generally good, they aren't to be taken seriously. Sigma cameras are nice but a "niche" market item for photographers who want to carry something different. Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority of the public are taking pictures on camera phones and those tiny sensor cameras are getting better and better with each new model of phone. Add to that the fact that R&D and sales are being subsidized by the big phone carriers. They are going to sell millions of each new model because they are cheap to the public. Every 2 years, you just get a new phone for a hundred bucks and the camera is one of the big selling points. Little sensors are going to rule very soon and probably do now in terms of sales.