[audiobomber]

Look a Fuji. The X-mount line is quirky, a little slow to work with and the RAW files can be a little more challenging but people love the system and its doing very well.

Sony still isn't there, but they have come a long way.

A large measure of Fuji's success is due to their lies about noise performance vs. other brands (i.e. understated ISO and raw NR). Lots of people were sucked in by Fuji's deceit.

Sony is eating up the MILC market, and Mirrorless is still a much smaller market compared to DSLR. Last year Sony had 40% of Mirrorless sales, this year even more. The others, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, Samsung are losing money and fighting over the remainder.


Wow - Sony’s *killing it* in cameras and elsewhere! (Plus, a really cool headset-trainer-thingie.)

---------- Post added 2015-09-21 at 13:44 ----------

If this is true, I think Ricoh should purchase the NX line, rebadge the NX500 and NX1 (with perhaps a cosmetic redesign)

Buying a failed product line doesn't make much sense. If Samsung can't sell them, what makes you think Pentax can?

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Last edited by audiobomber; 09-21-2015 at 10:50 AM.

[Doundounba]

Buying a failed product line doesn't make much sense. If Samsung can't sell them, what makes you think Pentax can?

It makes sense insomuch as
a) Ricoh would get an infusion of great and needed tech to use on k-mount cams. Fujitsu's Milbeaut appears to be falling behind the curve, for example. Ricoh's line that they're "not interested in video" for Pentax is, IMHO, largely a marketing decision based on the lag of the Fujitsu processors in video. Samsung could really help here, and I think a k-mount camera with, more or less, the guts of the NX1 (plus IBIS) would be a tremendously successful product. Having the by-all-acounts wonderful 16-50mm F/2-2.8 plus 50-150mm F/2.8 on k-mount also seems to make perfect sense from where I'm standing, as people have been clamoring for SDM-less replacements to the equivalent k-mount lenses.
b) Everyone seems to agree that the NX1 and NX500 are really good cameras, and that their inability to make a large dent in the camera market comes from the perception that Samsung products are cold, tech infused devices with little of the "soul"/cachet that makes a successful camera. Ricoh/Pentax might be able to infuse this cachet into that line-up...

It's a gamble, for sure, but even if Ricoh were to eventually drop the NX line-up if they can't turn it into a market success, I still think they'd come out winners from all the tech they'd get for the k-mount Pentax DSLR line-up...

[audiobomber]

I don't think "soul" is the reason Samsung is failing. The lens line is too restricted, and the cameras are never quite right. Most of their cameras, including the NX500 lack a viewfinder. The NX1 is simply too expensive. Samsung's 16-50 and 50-135 won't help Pentax at all, because of the short registration distance. The market has spoken, not enough people want what Samsung imaging is selling.

[Doundounba]

... The market has spoken, not enough people want what Samsung imaging is selling.

You could have said the same thing about Sony a few years back, yet Sony stuck with it and it's apparently paying off now. We'll see whether the rumor us true or not, but Samsung is huge. If they want to stick around for a few more years trying to make inroads into the camera market, I'm sure they can. Personally, I think exiting now would be premature, as they have only now gained a modicum of respect with the NX1. I do think as you do that they're pricing the NX1 too high, but that's pretty easy to fix. It certainly is not an inherent flaw with the product. I don't think they are that far from being able to carve out a profitable niche for their products. For me, as I consider my next camera purchase (possibly in 2016), Samsung is certainly at the forefront of the contenders - barring their rumored exit from the camera market.

But what I'd most like is for Samsung's sensor and processor tech to come to a k-mount APS-C body near me...

[audiobomber]

But what I'd most like is for Samsung's sensor and processor tech to come to a k-mount APS-C body near me...

Previous Samsung sensors were inferior to Sony. The Samsung BSI sensor has finally caught up to the previous generation Sony sensor. I predict the soon-to-be-released Sony APS-C sensor will pull ahead again.
Samsung NX1 versus Sony A6000 versus Nikon D7200 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

My a6000 shoots 11fps, but I never use it. 8fps on my K-3 is perfect for me. The a6000 doesn't have 4K, but I don't do video and polls I've seen at DPR and here say most Pentax shooters agree that video is not important. The NX1 has no appeal for me:
Samsung NX1 Mirrorless Digital Camera with 16-50mm f/2-2.8 S ED OIS Lens - $2599
Pentax K-3 with Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM - $1316

[neostyles]

Sony or Panasonic could be next.

Sony has a higher market share than pentax dude. Their cameras outsold dslrs last year i think. And panasonic's gh4 is one of the most popular cameras for videographers.. Sooo yeaahh probably not

[clackers]

Sony has a higher market share than pentax dude.

My guess is the boards of Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic are less than impressed with their camera sales and will look to their other business units for profitability.

If you read Sony's documents intended for shareholders you'd know that's true of them, Neostyles.

Sensors supplied for other companies are where their efforts lie.

Pentax has survived as a niche player, that's not Samsung or Sony's game and you know it.

They want Nikon and even Canon level sales.

[neostyles]

My guess is the boards of Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic are less than impressed with their camera sales and will look to their other business units for profitability.

If you read Sony's documents intended for shareholders you'd know that's true of them, Neostyles.

Sensors supplied for other companies are where their efforts lie.

Pentax has survived as a niche player, that's not Samsung or Sony's game and you know it.

They want Nikon and even Canon level sales.

The whole world is raving about the sony systems. So many people are selling their canon/nikon gear and switching to the sony E mount. I dont see how samsung and sony are equals. The nx1 got pretty good revies but it hasnt swept up the photography world in remotely the same way as sony A7 series has.. Honestly, i dont know how you havent noticed this. Pros on youtube are raving about them, And like i said they outsold dslrs... soo.. Yeahh.. I would say with everyone raving about the A&rii and how its basically the first camera that nails video and stills... that they probably have a new focus. Sony has been like wildfire for the photography word. They are changing everything. Small full frame cameras that are almost pocketable, a sub $1000 camera that has a stupid amount of f points and offers more than $6k dslrs, etc.

I doubt panasonic is having any trouble either
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/panasonic-quarterly-profit-soars-more-50-tax-ch...ance.html?nf=1

The GH4 is the 5dmk3 of the video world.

The only reason why the nx1 didnt do so well imho, is that it didnt really have a place in the market. It was a a $3000 aps c camera with a somewhat limited lens lineup. Heck, sony is being championed by some of the most well known names in photoraphy, such as gary fong. Cant say the same thiI dont even know how you can compare sony to olympus...




Pentax and all the other niche brands you mention are tiny compared to sony.. And that was only 2014 before the A7rii came onto the scene and blew everyone away. There is a very good chance that now they have the equivilent market share of all those niche brands put together. Sony doesnt have to play the niche game because they havent been a niche brand ever since the original A7 came out. T

[clackers]

And like i said they outsold dslrs...

I don't even know where to begin with that post (Gary Fong???? Puh-leeze).

Perhaps with that quote above.

Proof?

[RobA_Oz]

Interesting chart there, but with no vertical ordinate to tell us what we're looking at, it's not much use (eg is it items sold, items shipped, sales revenue or what?). Given that we've got phone and tablet makers in the mix, I take it that anything with a digital camera built in is included, except perhaps desktop or laptop computers. So, on that basis, what parts of Sony's and Samsung's shares are accounted for by phones and/or tablets? The whole world may be talking about Sony, but this chart seems to indicate that, by whatever measure you care to use, they're still not doing as well as Canon or Nikon when it comes to market share, and the A7 doesn't appear to have made much impression, because Sony's share hasn't moved significantly in the time since it appeared. Or is there another chart we should be looking at?

[pathdoc]

Samsung, like Sony, do not have a long pedigree in cameras and I have no faith in their overall systems. Sony at least had the benefit of inheriting Minolta's legacy, but I'm not sure how much good it's done them (Minolta themselves seemed to have a later history of brilliant ideas executed not-quite-right). If Samsung got out of the camera business (exempt cellphone/tablet etc. imaging) and devoted themselves to components (sensors, processors, etc), they would probably make a very good partner for Ricoh to source tech from as it would remove the issue of having to buy essential materials from a direct competitor. EXCEPT that we have already had a Pentax/Samsung marriage, and it ended in divorce. Would either side really want to go there again? (I'm not saying they wouldn't, but a lot would have to change.)

[rawr]

a lot would have to change

Two large, sprawling enterprises like Ricoh and Samsung partnering would involve a vastly different competitive calculus today than it did before.

Samsung and Ricoh, for example, both make printers, photocopiers, data projectors, chips etc and compete in those realms all around the world. Hoya/Pentax was never going to tread on Samsung's toes in the same way as Ricoh might.

[Winder]

We don't know for sure that Samsung is getting out of the business, but they need to focus on supplying sensors and processors to others. Technically they make great stuff, but thir products are about as exciting as using a calculator.

[D1N0]

Meanwhile Samsung fans are getting kind of desperate over at DPReview Samsung Talk: We love you Rokinon/Samyang!: Samsung Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

[osv]

Meanwhile Samsung fans are getting kind of desperate over at DPReview Samsung Talk: We love you Rokinon/Samyang!: Samsung Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

somebody pointed out that those lenses are getting released in a dead format like ef-m, but not nx mount.

no wonder the natives are getting restless