[outsider]

This is a bit of an odd issue, so please bear with me and read carefully. Because I liked my nikon 85mm 1.4D lens so much, I bought another one after about 4 years. The seller posted the serial number, so that prompted me to look up known serial numbers on photosynthesis.co.nz I learned that there were 3 separate productions of this lens beginning in 1995. The first "batch's" numbers went from 200*** to 228*** and was produced from 1995- (unknown). The second batch's numbers ran from 300*** to 303*** and all were produced in 2005. The third and last batch's numbers ran from 400***-469*** and was produced from 2006-2010. Here's what i'm saying: I have one of the lenses from the first batch produced (serial # 225*** US Version) and one of the lenses from the last batch produced (serial # 456*** Grey Market). I have noticed that the lens from the last production run is absolutely sharper, at least at larger apertures and definitely in the center, than the lens from the first production run. Although the older lens seems "warmer" and has more character somehow, it's hard to explain (I shoot portraits and street photography). I know this observation may seem irrelevant, but I guess i'm that 1% that looks at very subtle detail. In my equipment and when i'm editing photos. Is there anyone who can give some advice on this? I have even noticed differences between the same model camera. For instance, I have 2 D300's. And one of them focuses noticeably (and substantially) faster than the other. It hunts much less and attains accurate focus quicker. Thanks so much for your input!

[KDAFA]

... I have noticed that the lens from the last production run is absolutely sharper, at least at larger apertures and definitely in the center, than the lens from the first production run. Although the older lens seems "warmer" and has more character somehow, it's hard to explain (I shoot portraits and street photography). I know this observation may seem irrelevant, but I guess i'm that 1% that looks at very subtle detail.

Hi. Sorry, I'm not knowledgeable in Nikon lenses, but I just wanted to drop in to say that I don't think what you observed is irrelevant. Subtle detail matters - sometimes very much indeed!

Also wanted to say that variation in lenses is not an unknown phenomenon. Sometimes it could be due to construction/internal misalignment issues. Sometimes it may be due to the manufacturer having changed the lens coating (I mean a subtle change, not amounting to an entirely new type of coating technology with a new name). And there could be other reasons.

While on the subject, could it be possible that the "warmer" lens is in fact just a touch off in focus accuracy? In my experience this can sometimes lead to a perception
of warmth/character, whereas your newer lens, presumably on target with focus, looks (of course) sharper?

Edit: PS: Don't think of yourself as an "outsider", although you registered under that name... Welcome to Pentax Forums.

[TwoUptons]

The folks at lensrentals have done a bunch of work on lens sample variation as well as at least one article about how an in-spec lens and an in-spec camera can combine out-of-spec...

I'd suggest you read some of their articles; definitely worth reading...

If I had to guess, I would think that for reasons known only to Nikon, they changed the lens. Maybe they wanted to save money, maybe they were correcting a small flaw, whatever. The result would be slight differences between lenses of different generations. No surprise there.

For the bodies, sample variation would still occur even if nothing was changed during the production run. So performance of the cameras might be within spec yet noticeably different. Irritating, but not bad, necessarily, though a trip to the local Nikon service folks would let you know if something's wonky...

I hope that's helpful...

-Eric

[MJL]

I bought a Nikon ED lens couple years ago and I have to exchange it right away due to obvious color shift. So there is no guarantee that even newer or "Pro" lenses will yield consistent result among themselves.

From my years of working with scientific instrument, I understand there is a difference in "tolerance of variation" between Nikon consumer (DXXX camera or D lens for example), professional (DXX camera for example) and scientific (D3 systems on different Space Shuttle for example) product. I will be more surprised if your variations are found among cameras such as D4.

Many optical manufacturers including Leitz (Leica), Olympus and Zeiss apply the same practice to their range of product.

---

Last edited by MJL; 03-16-2016 at 08:35 AM.

[outsider]

Thanks all for the in depth and honest replies. Your experience and knowledge is indispensable. I created 2 accounts on Nikon forums and got almost no replies. Lens technology has been evolving extremely fast and there's a chance the age difference between my two lenses could be 10 years. The japanese are well known for constantly improving something, even if it's the same model lens. And although I believe that the older lens is well within tolerance for that time, it would come as no surprise that the two lenses have different character. I still have some more testing and playing around to do. Like has been mentioned, the newer one is very likely exhibiting the improvements made during it's 10 year production run. The older lens is plenty sharp and I think the motion blur in some of the photos (slight as it may be) was the cause of some of the observations. But it's definitely a fascinating experience to be able to see the differences between the two lenses. The newer one is super sharp. The older one seems to have slightly better bokeh, just as good, if not better contrast. Yes, it may be because it is slightly softer focus, but seems to give a film like feel to portraits.

Here are a few of my photos: https://www.facebook.com/atiimjones/photos

Here is an essential read on Japanese manufacturing and quality control: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-that-Japanese-products-tend-to-be-very-high-quality

[outsider]

I have used pentax extensively. I went from the k-x, to the k-5. And had a nice collection of newer and older lenses. One experience I remember is having the Pentax SMC 50MM 1.7A. Just an amazing lens and it was a joy to use. It had a character all it's own and used it to shoot most of a wedding. Then after getting tired of missfocusing, I bought a flawless version of the SMC 50mm 1.7F version. Plastic, autofocus and supposedly the same optical design. Great. But when I began reviewing the photos taken with the same K-x camera, it seemed something was gone. There was a certain warmth, character, spirit that it lacked, that the "A" version had, even though it was sharper (wide open). I ended up selling it and keeping the A version, which still sits in the cabinet. So even though i'm still doing tests, pixel peeping on my older 85mm 1.4D lens, one thing is for sure. Photos have a warmer, almost film like look to them. The 3D effect, wide open looks more pronouced than the newer version as well. However, the newer version seems to produce better photos on my full frame D700, than the D300. So maybe as production went on, newer versions were "optimized" for use on digital, as the lens was still being produced just as nikon digital cameras were starting to become popular. This older Nikon 85 I just acquired was probably made between 1995 and 1998. My newer version, maybe in 2005 or 2006. That could be a 10 year gap! But I will keep the older version. They sell for around $900 in flawless condition and I paid $700 and it is in flawless condition. The front and rear elements were as clean as a new lens and there were no marks on the mount. It was as though someone bought it, used it once or twice and put it up for years before selling it to the store I bought it from.