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02-15-2017, 03:23 AM - 1 Like   #16
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The factor that usually is ignored with regard to auto focus is the lens. As long as Canon is issuing their entry level cameras with slow kit lenses, the auto focus will be limited by the lenses, even if the algorithms and number of points are adequate.

Anyway, I suppose this has more to do with tracking then with any thing else. It may help a few folks who are shooting their kid's soccer games, but even there, they will probably be using slow 70-300 variable aperture lenses, which once again, aren't going to be able to keep up with action, even if the camera body can.


Last edited by Rondec; 02-15-2017 at 04:06 AM.
02-15-2017, 03:34 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
I would even venture to say that Pentax puts MORE thought into their camera systems than most other companies.
absolutely
02-15-2017, 03:49 AM   #18
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I watched the promo video on B&H news page, and it's laughable & sleazy.

M6 is used by a young woman photographer who is having fun with her friends, the 77D is used by a man doing some product shooting of candy factory, and the t7i is used by a mom-beginner-photographer to take pics of her children.

The most disgusting is the "optional OVF" which they sell for $249 (!)

Out of these I guess 77D is decent, but I don't see anything new or revolutionary. It's just put together from parts of other cameras in their lineup
02-15-2017, 05:24 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZeljkoS Quote
I watched the promo video on B&H news page, and it's laughable & sleazy.

M6 is used by a young woman photographer who is having fun with her friends, the 77D is used by a man doing some product shooting of candy factory, and the t7i is used by a mom-beginner-photographer to take pics of her children.

The most disgusting is the "optional OVF" which they sell for $249 (!)

Out of these I guess 77D is decent, but I don't see anything new or revolutionary. It's just put together from parts of other cameras in their lineup
For all their potentially problematical plasticality these are shrewdly judged cameras intended for regular family folks who want a straightforward camera which Just Works. The M6 has dual pixel tech, an excellent touch screen, controls familiar to the whole Canon range and will take any Canon lens pretty seamlessly with an adapter. Folks can move up or down the Canon canyon and still find the ground reassuringly similar.

And tempting soaraway special sales will probably put that optional EVF unit into the hands of anyone who really wants one for only a few bucks, but most buyers probably won't miss it and will use this camera off the rear LCD as they use their smartphone. Canon are likely #2 in the mirrorless market, are #1 in the DSLR market and last year sold about half of all cameras made. These are pretty nice problems to have. Some of their competitors would kill to have just one of them, let alone all of them. If Canon ever decided to do an "M6++" with enthusiast features, I would find it very tempting.


Last edited by mecrox; 02-15-2017 at 07:10 AM.
02-15-2017, 05:25 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
As long as Canon is issuing their entry level cameras with slow kit lenses, the auto focus will be limited by the lenses, even if the algorithms and number of points are adequate.
Taking that into consideration, the new Canon entry level camera is still going to be met with cries of inadequate AF. Mainly because the user base won't know how to get the most out of it.
02-15-2017, 05:35 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by rrstuff Quote
It seems that canon out an 80d af system into their t7i. I wonder how will ricoh respond.
feel free to jump ship if you find the other ship better
02-15-2017, 06:13 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
feel free to jump ship if you find the other ship better
It's just another discussion on the forum, nothing more. This "feel free to jump ship" expression starts to become very outdated, don't you think? It's inevitable that people will start to compare cameras each time a manufacturer releases a new one. As Rondec said, these entry level cameras are aimed to a different crowd, such as the one that:
- will use them only with the kit lenses (18-50mm f3.5 - f5.6 and 70-300mm f4.5- f6.3) to photograph kids and dogs playing
or to
- video bloggers who don't want to invest too much money in getting a camera

Ricoh on the other hand is aimed more to travelers (the ones with some basic knowledge about photography) when they release an entry level camera (small bodies and lenses, weather resistant cameras, etc.). At least this is my impression.


Last edited by Dan Rentea; 02-15-2017 at 08:16 AM.
02-15-2017, 06:23 AM - 1 Like   #23
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How do company's respond to the company's press releases?
They respond like they don't exist.
The three pro users I know who switched from Canon to Nikon on the past year, wanted better Dynamic Range and more resolution for landscape. They were quite happy to give up on "Canon AF."

What's the point in having great AF, if you get an inferior image?

Canon is just going with what got it here. Like the Steve Jobs reality warp. Press releases about AF are part of their schtick. SO are press releases about organic sensors with 100 EV dynamic range etc. They have become the kings of photographic vapourware.

Last edited by normhead; 02-15-2017 at 06:38 AM.
02-15-2017, 06:48 AM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Ricoh will respond by playing dead.

Pentax is DOOOOMMMED
I was so afraid this would be the Canon result....it ruined my day, and I started out so happy and hopeful.....


Regards!
02-15-2017, 07:04 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The three pro users I know who switched from Canon to Nikon on the past year, wanted better Dynamic Range and more resolution for landscape. They were quite happy to give up on "Canon AF."

What's the point in having great AF, if you get an inferior image?
I know 2 pro users who switched from Nikon to Canon, I also know other 4 users who switched from Canon/Nikon to Sony, and I know another 2 pro users who switched from Nikon to Fuji. I'm not sure who is getting inferior images with their newer cameras. I guess none of them, because their images are still gorgeous.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 02-15-2017 at 07:12 AM.
02-15-2017, 07:15 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I know 2 pro users who switched from Nikon to Canon, I also know other 4 users who switched from Canon/Nikon to Sony, and I know another 2 pro users who switched from Nikon to Fuji. I'm not sure who is getting inferior images with their newer cameras. I guess none of them, because their images are still gorgeous.
Ture dat.

It would be useful if you explained why they switched. In my post you'll notice I explained what their reasoning was, and why they were happier after they switched. IN your post above all you say is that they swtched which provides no useful information to possible switchers. You also don't mention if they were happy with their switch afterwards.


Does Canon actually have a camera that will focus in -3 EV. FIve years ago I go a shot in low light with ny K-5 that the Canon shooters standing beside me couldn't lock focus on, not enough light for them. They were using Canon pro level gear. I was using a K-5 with an FA 50 1.8. I wonder if Canon ever caught up.

Two can play this game.

I once had a discussion about some insane topic with the fundamentalist Baptist minister next door. "He said get your quotes together and we'll have a discussion." A week following he came over with his quotes, a bunch of biblical references. I said , let's see what you've got. I started into the first. He said, "No , how many do you have?" I said 5. He said, "I have 7 I win." I feel like I'm debating with a Baptist minister. Numbers , but no information.

Last edited by normhead; 02-15-2017 at 07:42 AM.
02-15-2017, 07:37 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
True, that.
Does Canon actually have a camera that will focus in -3 EV. FIve years ago I go a shot in low light with ny K-5 that the Canon shooters standing beside me couldn't lock focus on, not enough light for them. They were using Canon pro level gear. I was using a K-5 with an FA 50 1.8. I wonder if Canon ever caught up.

Two can play this game.
It catched up in that department. If you look at the specs, they have it implemented in the new entry level camera just released. It still has to catch up Pentax in terms of dynamic range and build quality on entry level and middle level cameras. Not much though if we speak about K1 vs 5D Mark IV, as I'm able now to play with my friend's K1 and compare images. If K1 had a mature system to back up it's performance, it would have been an outstanding camera. Let's hope Ricoh will start to work on releasing new modern lenses and maybe find a solution for the flash system. I can live with K1's af with no problem.

---------- Post added 02-15-17 at 02:43 PM ----------

They switched because:

- they got some big contracts with a few agencies and those agencies were using a different system
- they gave up Nikon because of the price increased (the new Nikon 70-200mm is almost twice the money you pay for the equivalent from Canon, at least in Romania)
- they changed their bussiness from studio work to landscape (so they wanted to travel light and went for Sony)
- they bought Fuji at the begining as a camera to use it day by day and they fell in love with the camera and sold the other system and now they do fashion photography with their Fuji cameras
02-15-2017, 07:51 AM   #28
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Forumites get way too focused on DXO Mark scores. The place where Sony sensors used in Nikon and Pentax cameras really beat Canon sensors is in low iso dynamic range. That said, if you are shooting out of camera jpegs or are shooting at iso 400 or above, you aren't going to see a difference in real world situations.

If you used DXO Mark scores alone, it would be hard to tell why Canon is cleaning up the market place with Nikon, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Canon has cameras that work in different price ranges and glass that fits all sorts of situations -- priced for the most part a little lower than Nikon and Sony offerings.
02-15-2017, 08:08 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Forumites get way too focused on DXO Mark scores. The place where Sony sensors used in Nikon and Pentax cameras really beat Canon sensors is in low iso dynamic range. That said, if you are shooting out of camera jpegs or are shooting at iso 400 or above, you aren't going to see a difference in real world situations.

If you used DXO Mark scores alone, it would be hard to tell why Canon is cleaning up the market place with Nikon, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Canon has cameras that work in different price ranges and glass that fits all sorts of situations -- priced for the most part a little lower than Nikon and Sony offerings.
Canon like everyone else has their place in the world.
02-15-2017, 08:36 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Canon like everyone else has their place in the world.
That's not really the point either. We get all stewed up about small differences in high iso performance and dynamic range and all the rest of the world wants is a camera that gives decent jpeg output in green mode or, if they are really intrepid, Program mode.

Weather sealing, dynamic range, and 100 percent viewfinders probably are not that big a deal to most of the budding photographers out there. Reasonably priced bodies and glass probably are.
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