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09-01-2008, 10:47 PM   #16
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I would get her the d700, that would keep her very happy a looooooonng time.

09-02-2008, 12:53 PM   #17
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Honestly if she's been DXing for awhile and have no use for the FX resolution i'd stick to DX models.
09-02-2008, 01:29 PM   #18
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Hock the Nikon gear and buy another K10D with the money. Then you can share lenses - which means more new lenses for you!

c[_]
09-02-2008, 03:43 PM   #19
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I did a comparison between the specs for the D80 and D200 yesterday and decided that the difference was minimal, and the price of a secondhand D200 is the same as a new D80, with the main advantage of the D200 being a slightly better sensor.

I made a bid on a second-hand D200 on eBay last night, but missed out by $10. So after missing out on the bid, we agreed we'll buy a new D80.

But now I've read GaryML's post and I'm unsure which way to go; The idea of not using manual lenses sticks in my craw. Maybe that's just a subjective opinion on my part, as I've always preferred total manual control, but my wife has no such preconceptions.

But having reviewed all the NIKON models in our price range, it does appear that ii_coffee_lP's suggestion to buy a second PENTAX has merit; there don't seem to be any semi-pro NIKONs that are sustantially better than the K10D.

09-02-2008, 07:45 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryML Quote
If you want to use manual focus lenses, you need the D200 or D300 (or better models) as manual focus lenses will not meter with the D80 or D90 (or lesser models).
GaryML, I need this clarified: Presumably the D80 model still allows manual-override with focussing, yes? And also has full-manual control over aperture and shutter, as well as priority modes?
09-02-2008, 10:56 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by marcdsgn Quote
GaryML, I need this clarified: Presumably the D80 model still allows manual-override with focussing, yes? And also has full-manual control over aperture and shutter, as well as priority modes?
Yes: With AF-S lenses you can manual over-ride the AF just by turning the focus ring. With older, screw-drive AF lenses (AF or AF-D) you must flip a switch on either the body or lens to switch from AF to manual. Same as Pentax DA and FA lenses.

And yes, the D80 allows full manual mode with matrix metering, as well as aperture priority, shutter priority, and full auto. The full auto allows "hyper-shift" of either aperture or shutter speed by turing the appropriate front or rear command dial (but I honestly don't recall the specifics as I use aperture priority about 99.5% percent of the time).

Just to clarify, the limitation with manual focus lenses on the D80 is that you do not get any metering. You can use them to take pictures in full manual, setting the aperture with the aperture ring on the lens and the shutter speed manually set on the camera. You can use the rear display to review the histogram for exposure information after the shot is taken and then try again. It does work; just no TTL meter.

The D200 WILL meter with almost all manual focus lenses (except for "pre-AI" lenses from the '60s). It is also better built with a magnesium body (nothing like feeling metal in your hands when you hold a camera), full dust and water seals, no stupid "picture modes," etc. It is a really nice camera. But the picture quality on the D80 is virtually identical (almost the same sensor), and the AF system is almost the same also ("Multi-CAM-1000"). The D200 does have a couple of bonuses: e.g., faster frame rate (5 fps versus 3 fps for the D80-due to 4 channel output on the D200 sensor as compared to 2 channel on the D80 and Pentax K10D), more durable shutter, and a more sophisticated metering/flash control chip. You can still buy a new D200:

Nikon | D200 SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) | 00025235 | B&H

I take it you ruled out the D300 due to price. It is a fantastic camera but it is quite expensive. I was handling one in a store today and I was tempted: the feel of the metal body and the 3" high-resolution screen was almost too much to resist. But my wife had already ruled it out a few weeks ago and there would have been serious repercussions ....

Last edited by GaryML; 09-02-2008 at 11:02 PM.
09-03-2008, 06:21 PM   #22
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Thanks GaryML. The lens issue is no longer so much of a concern in light of your info.

Well, I guess either model will do what we want. I agree there's a real sense of security with a solid water-tight frame on a camera, and that's probably the one thing remaining that would make me lean toward the D200, but then my wife's current model (F60) is still in pristine condition despite its plastic body, so it's not likely she'll need anything more durable.

Of course, now you've mentioned shutter durability, and I'm wondering if you've had issues with the D80 shutter?

09-04-2008, 07:23 AM   #23
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Why not wait for the D90? Or, if you want it now, go for the D300. With the D90, you'll get that video mode (could be fun - I'd like it), and with the D300 you'll get good low light/high ISO performance, neither of which the K10D is noted for. That way, you'll have some additional capabilities in house with either choice.
09-04-2008, 09:06 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by marcdsgn Quote
Thanks GaryML. The lens issue is no longer so much of a concern in light of your info.

Well, I guess either model will do what we want. I agree there's a real sense of security with a solid water-tight frame on a camera, and that's probably the one thing remaining that would make me lean toward the D200, but then my wife's current model (F60) is still in pristine condition despite its plastic body, so it's not likely she'll need anything more durable.

Of course, now you've mentioned shutter durability, and I'm wondering if you've had issues with the D80 shutter?
My D80 works perfectly and I've had no problems with the shutter or anything else. If you're going to shoot tens of thousands of photos per year then you may want to step up to more expensive cameras, but otherwise it isn't an issue. The D80 does tend to expose "to the right" a bit, and I often dial in either -0.3 or -0.7 exposure compensation. I use the rear LCD set to "flash" the blown highlights when reviewing photos, but from experience I know that I want some minus exposure compensation for high contrast scenes for better color saturation. With my Pentax K10D, the opposite was true and it tended to underexpose a bit.

The D80 will wirelessly remotely fire the modern Speedlights, and that gives you a lot of flexibility. I use a Nikon SB800 Speedlight and it works very well. I also regularly set the SB800 to either -0.3 or -0.7 flash exposure, and this gives me better exposure and good balance between ambient and flash lighting.

One other thing to consider is getting the Nikon Capture NX 2 RAW processing software. Forget the version 1.x demo that comes with the D80 and download the version 2 demo from Nikon. I think it gives better results with the Nikon RAW (.NEF) files than alternatives from Adobe. It includes tools for *automatically* correcting chromatic aberration, vignetting, geometric distortion, and similar issues (with manual tweaking if desired). Version 2 adds better tools for dust removal and the ability to apply correction to just parts of a picture (similar to Lightroom 2). It includes all the usual adjustments, including exposure, color balance, curves, contrast, etc., and you can also work with .jpeg or .tiff files. It is also fairly easy to use and includes decent file handling and work flow tools. All editing of .NEF files is non-destructive, and the changes are saved within the file itself (rather than in an external database like Lightroom). Check out the demo and you will probably like it. I used to use Lightroom for most of my work flow and post-processing. I now use Capture NX 2 almost all of the time and I think it gives me better results.

Finally, I should say that my D80 is really a nice camera and performs well in most areas: great image quality, great AF speed and accuracy, great flash metering, incredible battery life, etc. The D200 has better build quality and has higher frames rates, but the image quality and AF is virtually identical to the D80. When I made my decision last year, I could not justify the extra expense for a D200. The D90 carries over some of the improvements from the D300 (just as the D80 carried over features from the D200). I expect the D90 to sell for around $1,000. You can decide if the improvements are worth the extra cost.
09-07-2008, 03:51 PM   #25
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Thanks, GaryML. It looks like we're going with the D80.
09-07-2008, 04:20 PM   #26
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marc, just pack a couple of baggies for wet days.
09-08-2008, 04:40 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by marcdsgn Quote
Thanks, GaryML. It looks like we're going with the D80.
You're welcome, and have fun with both the D80 and your K10D!
09-08-2008, 07:14 PM   #28
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Jumping in late I know but now you've at least considered another K10, why not get a K20.
09-10-2008, 05:43 PM   #29
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Yes DamnBrit, it's tempting, but she has a heap of fliters and other fittings specific to her current 35mm body and lenses which she'd like to keep using in conjunction with the DSLR. Still, it's not beyond the realms of possibility, and it will be a little while before we purchase, so who knows?
09-10-2008, 05:51 PM   #30
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Don't forget that Photokina is week after next and PMA is next March. I'm hoping that Pentax will pull out all the stops and introduce a lineup that will put some heat on the big 2--if not at Photokina, then PMA. There's no telling what they have up their sleeve

Heather
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