[D1N0]

I will never do a suggestion that Norm does not agree with any more. To have my loyalty as a Pentaxian questioned has been a traumatic experience......

[normhead]

The same way that Pentax decided to take more years between camera models and didn't tell us back in... 2016 or so when they probably made that decision...

I think Pentax more than other companies tends to be practical. They offer something new, when they have something new to offer, not before.

---------- Post added 07-21-20 at 11:10 AM ----------

I will never do a suggestion that Norm does not agree with any more. To have my loyalty as a Pentaxian questioned has been a traumatic experience......

Next time just clear with me first.

There's nothing wrong with what you said, but after hearing for years how you can just use your old Pentax glass on a Sony, it's definitely a sensitive area. I have an M42 adapter. I hate it. The word "adapter" makes my blood run cold.

Made worse by an ad I recently saw for a Pentax FA*250-600 that had been "adapted" to Canon and the dude had lost the Pentax mount.

Adapters will ruin your life.

I'm just trying to save people from adapter disasters.

Don't do it man... don't do it.

[ChristianRock]

I think Pentax more than other companies tends to be practical. They offer something new, when they have something new to offer, not before.

That is also very true. When they decided to take more time between models, it was probably as much due to the market, as it was because there really weren't that many technology advancements that make it worth worth releasing a new product. The K-new release probably has more to do with AF and viewfinder than it has with any sensor tech, though it should come with a newer sensor - but that won't be a huge differentiator.

I remember when Pentax released the 645Z - they weren't really going to release a new 645 model yet, but when the 50MP sensor came into the market, they just had to use it.

When they have a good reason to, they'll release new products...

[mee]

End of an era. 5D series were a staple in the commercial photography world. Esp in smaller portraiture businesses, among many others.

I guess Canon is making their bets on MILC systems.

It makes sense though. If you keep giving customers a reason not to 'upgrade' their EF system into RF, you'll just slow the progression (profit) of the RF platform.

I don't see Ricoh Pentax ruling the roost in the DSLR field unless they really get a hold of their lacking autofocus system and rethink the lens catalog. Especially on longer primes. Plus they need a sub 30 MP body for those who don't want higher resolution images.

Essentially, if they want to attract Canon and Nikon DSLR customers (who don't want a MILC), they're going to have to compete on the expectations of these buyers.

I suspect Nikon will more slowly transition to Z but keep some DSLR series around. Just like they did with the D750 to D780. The upgrade is pretty much a Z6 in a DSLR body offered a year or two after the Z 6 launched.


Canon? It looks like they might just stick with 1DX at its 6+k dollar price tag as the only DSLR series? that would be dumb imo. They should do like Nikon and release updated DSLR bodies a year or two after the launch of a MILC body but use the same tech. If you want to stick with DSLR you can but you get to wait a couple extra years for the tech.

It will still be above what Ricoh is offering. Unless they have a huge revelation on the AF and lens lineup suddenly (doubt it). Pentax is a different niche imo.

[RGlasel]

I have no doubt that Canon has cancelled development of at least one new product in the last few years, I guess Ricoh is ahead of Canon by simply not starting development of at least one new product that might have been included in planning if the camera business was booming like it was 10 years ago. I doubt that a successor to the Q or 645Z is under active development. Nowhere has Canon officially said that all unsold 5D MkIV's will be destroyed and that from now on, no one will ever be able to use some iteration of the 5D line (which has been around for very nearly 15 years, an eternity in this industry). What glaring deficiencies does the 5D MkIV have that need to be addressed in order to prevent Canon from having to stop building any kind of DSLR? Will Canon go out of business because it changed its mind on developing a MkV?

[Rondec]

If you've read the lens Rentals evaluation about adapters, they are just one more thing that can go wrong.

And if you want a DSLR that means nothing.

After all the whining about FF, you have to know, people want to shoot their lenses on a the system it was designed for. Some people like what they have and bought into the system believing it would be there going forward. You honestly think they won't feel betrayed?

I'm astounded a Pentaxian would even suggest that they won't. We still have people begging Pentax to re-support the M42 pin.

My guess is Canon is pulling a Save Jobs, and severely simplifying their product line. I also suspect they got caught with their pants down, needing a huge influx in capital for mirroless lenses, just when Covid killed their cash flow.

I think it is all about selling more cameras and lenses.

The reality is that when you change mounts, even if your users can use their existing lenses on the new mount with an adapter, they tend to purchase new lenses. Some of the new lenses aren't really matched with existing EOS options either. And they are all really pricey.

When Canon looks at MILCs they just see more dollar signs than at the EOS mount.

[guinnessman]

End of an era. 5D series were a staple in the commercial photography world. Esp in smaller portraiture businesses, among many others.




It makes sense though. If you keep giving customers a reason not to 'upgrade' their EF system into RF, you'll just slow the progression (profit) of the RF platform.

I don't see Ricoh Pentax ruling the roost in the DSLR field unless they really get a hold of their lacking autofocus system and rethink the lens catalog. Especially on longer primes. Plus they need a sub 30 MP body for those who don't want higher resolution images.

Essentially, if they want to attract Canon and Nikon DSLR customers (who don't want a MILC), they're going to have to compete on the expectations of these buyers.

I suspect Nikon will more slowly transition to Z but keep some DSLR series around. Just like they did with the D750 to D780. The upgrade is pretty much a Z6 in a DSLR body offered a year or two after the Z 6 launched.


Canon? It looks like they might just stick with 1DX at its 6+k dollar price tag as the only DSLR series? that would be dumb imo. They should do like Nikon and release updated DSLR bodies a year or two after the launch of a MILC body but use the same tech. If you want to stick with DSLR you can but you get to wait a couple extra years for the tech.

It will still be above what Ricoh is offering. Unless they have a huge revelation on the AF and lens lineup suddenly (doubt it). Pentax is a different niche imo.

They still have the 90D. They haven't updated the 7D is ages (a bit like the K3 line), and they still could I suppose. But I would think that if I was a working pro, the cost of the body is relative peanuts, they want those current 5D users to buy a R5, I can't afford either, so those that can either have more money, or are getting paid to do it. In the meantime, the stopgap is to use an adapter. EVF vs OVF is a debate, but there are pros and cons with both types.

I see Pentax in the same light, it's cool that the K mount is backwards compatible, but when I use most of my lenses, after using my Nikon J1 or Sony, I just cringe at the sound of screwdrives, AF is just part of it. It's probably why I just use the 16-85 nearly always anymore. I don't mind screwdrive as much for shorter lenses, but DC/PLM across the entire lineup would be a real shot in the arm, and would benefit the telephotos the most. Nikon saw that writing on the wall years ago, and updated their lineup.

Every Pentax I've had is faster than the last, but a screwdrive lens is still slow and noisy (glares at the nifty fifty) And I have to guess that people would like to have more DC/PLM Limiteds, like the 20-40.

[mee]

They still have the 90D.

For now.

I just cringe at the sound of screwdrives

Me too. It's a horribly antiquated sound and is startling to those around it. That's not the sound you want to hear piercing the silence in a quiet setting ZIPP ZOOP ZIP ZOOP ZIIPPP ZOOOOP. Ricoh has at least been introducing some new lenses with motors internally, but sadly also reintroducing steam driven antiquities into their lineup as well. It's a strange mixed bag.


Canon shows you can have very small lenses that still have in lens quiet motors with their STM pancakes. But this is a total aside from the subject discussion...

[normhead]

They still have the 90D. They haven't updated the 7D is ages (a bit like the K3 line), and they still could I suppose. But I would think that if I was a working pro, the cost of the body is relative peanuts, they want those current 5D users to buy a R5, I can't afford either, so those that can either have more money, or are getting paid to do it. In the meantime, the stopgap is to use an adapter. EVF vs OVF is a debate, but there are pros and cons with both types.

I see Pentax in the same light, it's cool that the K mount is backwards compatible, but when I use most of my lenses, after using my Nikon J1 or Sony, I just cringe at the sound of screwdrives, AF is just part of it. It's probably why I just use the 16-85 nearly always anymore. I don't mind screwdrive as much for shorter lenses, but DC/PLM across the entire lineup would be a real shot in the arm, and would benefit the telephotos the most. Nikon saw that writing on the wall years ago, and updated their lineup.

Every Pentax I've had is faster than the last, but a screwdrive lens is still slow and noisy (glares at the nifty fifty) And I have to guess that people would like to have more DC/PLM Limiteds, like the 20-40.

Pentax is producing fantastic lenses right now, fast focussing and silent. Are you buying? My faster focussing silent lens started with the DA 18-135 10 years ago. It's not Pentax's fault you still have screw drive lenses you don't like. Screw drive lenses are there if you want them. There's absolutely no way that's not better than not having them there. So you haven't sold your screw drive lenses or otherwise disposed, but you complain about them? You're complaining about your own behaviour and choices. No one forced you to buy any of that stuff. No one forced you to keep it.

My non screw drive lenses. DA* 200, DA*60-250, DA* 55 1.4, DA 18-135, DA 55-300 PLM and there's the DA*16-50 and DA*50-135 that I don't own, and now all the new DFAs (which I also don't own) Pentax covers APS-c better than everyone else, and you can;'t find some thing you like? If you hadn't spend your money on Nikon and Sony gear, you might have have a few excellent DA*s or DFA*s. Owning more than one brand has its price.

You have one modern Pentax lens, and you blame the brand for that.... seriously?

Are you seriously faulting Pentax because you don't like lenses designed more than 10 years ago that you don't have to use and for which there are better alternatives? Buy a couple modern lenses, you do for your other gear. Why not for your Pentax?

As for screw drive, something that works is always better than nothing. I occasionally use MF lenses as well. For things you don't do often, affordable lenses that cost less, give you capability for very little investment. You get what you pay for. But, if you're running three different systems, you're going to pay for duplication. I'm the opposite. Every lens I've bought in the last 5 years is good on both FF and APS_c. I get double the FoV with each lens, two different fields of view (or equivalent focal length) for every lens I buy. I bet you have a kit lens foreach system you own. Three lenses that do the same. The 3 lenses for one purpose thing. Every one I buy is is a 2 for 1 thing. In terms of utility, I'm leaving you behind by a factor of 6.

No wonder I'm so much happier with my Pentax gear, I have an integrated system that gives me tons of options for every shoot, and workable back up for every lens, should one fail (or be borrowed by the wife. ) You have what? A 16-85? Ya, I'd be unhappy too with such a limited arsenal. You don't even have true ILC. It's not really an ILC if you only have one lens you'll use. You bought potential, but you didn't execute in a way that maximized it. Pentax gave you options, you turned them down. There's nothing Pentax can do about that, that's on you.

At the very least try a DA 55-300 PLM. It's been rated best in class, despite being relatively inexpensive.

[stevebrot]

You have one modern Pentax lens, and you blame the brand for that.... seriously?

I only have one "modern" lens and it isn't a Pentax.

I only have four AF lenses and only one is non-screwdrive and it isn't a Pentax.

I would sort of like a DA 55-300 PLM, but will likely get a new tripod head (Acratech $$$) before buying a longer zoom.

There is no current Pentax lens on my "gotta have" horizon, with the possible exception of the D FA* 21mm Limited. That one has my attention.

I might buy the K-new...depending what is actually released.

I buy bodies to support my lenses and my current quiver is pretty complete and adequate to my style of shooting.


Steve

(...not exactly a Pentax power buyer...)

[normhead]

I only have one "modern" lens and it isn't a Pentax.

I only have four AF lenses and only one is non-screwdrive and it isn't a Pentax.

I would sort of like a DA 55-300 PLM, but will likely get a new tripod head (Acratech $$$) before buying a longer zoom.

There is no current Pentax lens on my "gotta have" horizon, with the possible exception of the D FA* 21mm Limited. That one has my attention.

I might buy the K-new...depending what is actually released.

I buy bodies to support my lenses and my current quiver is pretty complete and adequate to my style of shooting.


Steve

(...not exactly a Pentax power buyer...)

Your weirdness never stops catching me off guard, however, it is quite refreshing when considering how many spend so much and are still full of complaints, (about practically everything), for probably the same degree of satisfaction.

You're definitely a "type"

[stevebrot]

You're definitely a "type"

It requires significant effort, but worth it...

The weirdness is intended to diffuse what might be taken as criticism (not of you). It comes in handy at times.


Steve

[Rondec]

They still have the 90D. They haven't updated the 7D is ages (a bit like the K3 line), and they still could I suppose. But I would think that if I was a working pro, the cost of the body is relative peanuts, they want those current 5D users to buy a R5, I can't afford either, so those that can either have more money, or are getting paid to do it. In the meantime, the stopgap is to use an adapter. EVF vs OVF is a debate, but there are pros and cons with both types.

I see Pentax in the same light, it's cool that the K mount is backwards compatible, but when I use most of my lenses, after using my Nikon J1 or Sony, I just cringe at the sound of screwdrives, AF is just part of it. It's probably why I just use the 16-85 nearly always anymore. I don't mind screwdrive as much for shorter lenses, but DC/PLM across the entire lineup would be a real shot in the arm, and would benefit the telephotos the most. Nikon saw that writing on the wall years ago, and updated their lineup.

Every Pentax I've had is faster than the last, but a screwdrive lens is still slow and noisy (glares at the nifty fifty) And I have to guess that people would like to have more DC/PLM Limiteds, like the 20-40.

I don't think Pentax is making any new designs that are screw driven. I happen to like the limiteds and something like the DA 40 would certainly have to be bigger to include a motor.

As far as speed goes, screw drive is plenty fast. Speed has everything to do with focus throw and lenses like the DA 40 and FA 135 f2.8 are extremely fast focusers. A lens like the DFA 100 macro WR is really slow, but it would be the same with a DC motor. The thing that would speed it up would be a focus limiter.

[Serkevan]

I don't think Pentax is making any new designs that are screw driven. I happen to like the limiteds and something like the DA 40 would certainly have to be bigger to include a motor.

As far as speed goes, screw drive is plenty fast. Speed has everything to do with focus throw and lenses like the DA 40 and FA 135 f2.8 are extremely fast focusers. A lens like the DFA 100 macro WR is really slow, but it would be the same with a DC motor. The thing that would speed it up would be a focus limiter.

The main problem with screwdrive is fine movement (which normally happens while tracking or if the subject) - short focus throw coupled with AF.C makes it very difficult for the AF system to keep up. My Tokina 70-210 is *very* fast in AF.S (about 90º throw) but if I try to use AF.C even on a static subject the screwdrive racks back and forth, it feels like it just can't turn a small enough amount to nail it, despite it being dead-on accurate in AF.S...

The noise is oddly satisfying though , although I can't say I dislike the DC motor on the 28-105.

[Winder]

Screw drive is dead. If Ricoh is going to improve the speed and accuracy of their system they have to upgrade the lenses. Screw drive is not fast enough or accurate enough to get accurate C-AF on a long fast lens like an 85mm F/1.4 or 135mm F/1.8. The Canon R-5 advertises 20fps, but we need to see what lenses will work with that. I'm pretty sure none of the adapted EF lenses can track a moving subject at 20fps. The A9 checks and adjusts focus something like 90 times per-second and not all of Sony lenses are capable of keeping up with that. The R-5 has to be doing something similar to track at 20fps. Using AF motors like screw drive is one reason Pentax has fallen behind in terms of AF performance. With older DSLRs 20fps wasn't possible or practical. Getting to the point where a mirror could go up and down at 20fps and stay together or move around was one issue and simply dealing with mirror blackout at 20fps makes it hard to track a fast subject. Hopefully the new lens motors that Ricoh is using are able to keep up with future advancements and improvements in AF speed and accuracy.