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02-03-2021, 06:32 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
Actually, the original post goes beyond expressing joy of getting a new camera, and I think some readers of this thread might be trying to understand the issues that the user encountered. In my opinion, that's a reasonable reaction to the post, especially since the OP obviously also appreciates their Pentax gear, despite the specific issues. So, it's not simply a post about a non-Pentax camera -- it's also about Pentax in particular and its perceived negative aspects.

Going beyond the joy of the new R6, the OP describes some of the problems with their K-1:
  • always at the whim of the cameras AF
  • The slow 4 FPS (and even 7 fps) really made it difficult to anticipate what exact moment you were going to capture the shot
  • extreme shallow buffer made shooting RAW practically impossible
  • The only real way to control things was to switch to single-point
  • Pentax is easily the most clunky.
- Craig
It's all good, the joy of new stuff, art. whatever. I'd love to try an R6, at the same time I kind of like clunky. Slows me down a little, makes me think. I know that's rationalizing but I'm not all that particular I guess, am very happy with my KP and my new stuff is the DA* 11-18 I just ordered, as well as the Fujifilm X-E2s/18mm I recently bought. I'm not a working pro, appreciate diversity. Different strokes.

02-03-2021, 06:59 PM - 2 Likes   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
OK, point taken. However, I don't have time today to play editor, so rather than that I'll just say:
@normhead and @Dan Rentea please cut it out or thread bans will follow.
Thank you!
Despite the (IMHO) off topic argument discussion, I think there is value in this thread. Someone reporting on real world experience with a different camera than Pentax should be of interest regardless of whether anyone is contemplating a switch. And I think this sub-topic is actually about non-Pentax cameras last time I checked.
02-03-2021, 07:28 PM - 4 Likes   #63
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Hello, [this is a lot longer than I wanted, feel free to skip that part in the middle]

What this thread has somewhat de-volved into is also slightly why I was hesitant to post this kind of thing. I find it funny that some wonder if there is some kind of 'conspiracy' or if I am somehow trolling... even though I posted links to videos of results from using the camera over multiple years. Here are some more, if you don't believe: Father's Uplift (an amazing local mentoring group to children without father's, and for fathers who hope to reconnect with their kids... granted I did not take pic/video from the first half. You have to fast-forward to 4:36 as the video is supposed to summarize their experience, and I was only taking pictures at the ceremony): https://youtu.be/NL1yyV2N7yQ; Calculus Project (my education program, which helps PoCs reach Calculus by their Senior year. All of these photos are from 2015, and shot on my K-5):
.

Not that someone should, but you can look at my post history, and you'll see posts dating all the way back to when I first got my K-5 as the first digital camera and big purchase (at the time for me) coming out of college and heard about this forum (and when I considered selling my APS-C kit in 2016 when I first got the K-1, which I eventually just gave to a needy family who has never had a camera of any kind that I work with, a very common occurrence... love that kit!!)... no conspiracy, unless it's some kind mandela effect thing.

For those wondering about the switch... As I have told students, I think most cameras made in the past 6-7 years can be a capable camera and used in certain instance. To respond to some confusion in my original post, by c.a.m: [A couple of statements in the member's post are confusing to me, for example: "The only real way to control things was to switch to single-point, which due to shooting at 2.8 (only while in-doors) made cropping blurry when AF was not quite where you wanted it." I can understand general out-of-focus blurriness, but it seems that the OP might be confounding the single-point focus mode and aperture/depth of field. Or, it might be a question of misfocusing with the focus-and-recompose technique. I'm probably misunderstanding the issue here]. What I was trying to describe here, was how I was not able to feel truly in-control when it comes to capturing a specific moment. Ex: basketball player is driving, and you want to capture the moment they run into someone or make the move at the basket... at that exact moment. Because of the 4fps, I always felt that I couldn't get a feel for the time interval... and the moment captured was more so at the whim of whatever that rate is, as apposed to knowing the moment that is coming up + being able to match that moment to a captured time. In terms of the single-point portion. I used to try and shoot by just letting the camera just AF using all of its points (sometimes it's better, sometimes not as it wouldn't always choose what I wanted)... but sometimes I found that the best way to focus to let that center-point be what its focusing on (the same way one might in a portrait over the eye). It helped give me a little bit more control. The 2.8 depth of field sometimes meant that sometimes where it missed the focus, as I feel the continuous-AF doesn't quite track leading to an individual leaving the initial DoF. Maybe this doesn't explain that scenario, but hopefully this helps explain a little bit.

[Skip, if triggering]
In terms of user-error or skill... I will never claim to be the most skilled photographer ever! There are features that I have barely even really taken advantage of (ex: Pixelshift/Astrotracer... though I hope to change this, and do this more... starting with the Upcoming Feb 13 Conjunction. Still need to find a good locale in my area :shameless plug. I am simply a person who loves to capture moments, and introduce students and individuals to a practice that I love so very much. As I said in the initial post, I love Pentax!! It has been in my life since I was young child, when an estate box randomly showed up to my community center with a K1000 inside of it. I used to love to go around our neighborhood, a bad part of town where people said had a bad reputation, and try to capture its beauty. I talk to students about brand loyalty, and how sometimes that can lead a photographer down a path (though I realize that apparently some people have views on what a 'photographer' is or photography is). I don't think its unreasonable to hope that the only brand of camera that I've ever known in which I have personal sentiment, in this case Pentax, be able to handle these moments (most specifically: sports/wildlife/video... though video less so). And while I don't believe that a camera that shoots 4fps/7fps is suited for this goal, I also do lament that Pentax simply hasn't really kept up with progression of tech. Not blaming the camera or company... just in these realms, I feel something else might meet said need better... for me. Yes, this is my view, and I love the fact that these cameras have met the needs of people here. Myself included (if you remember, my brother's wife had a K-01, my sister a KP... all due to the amazing value! that I helped convince).

I did not hope to bash anything (as I've tried to demonstrate, just how much Pentax has allowed me. Look at my post-history and you'll see my posts about how much I love them, and some of the problems I've had with using them too. Was doing some Macro just a month or so ago), but instead simply give an honest account of a decision for those who might be in my same situation or thought process. And/or see if there are some in the community that has made a similar switch? I feel a lot of Pentax shooters use multiple brands. Its true that I have felt that Pentax tech has been slow to realize, but more importantly Pentax support has been somewhat lacking from 3rd-party. Why not wait for K-3iii?, because at the price of that new camera it feels close to what a new body might be from a different brand... at the cost of having to start new. That is just where I happen to be! and was trying to share my experience... in the Non-Pentax part of this forum. Where I thought this kind of thing is supposed to be... with my thought-process included. I don't think sharing that is bashing. Not to bring John Bloomfield into this, but his video very much captured how I have felt, and I don't think he is bashing it:
[End]

I want to thank those who have given lens recommendations!! I don't really know that much about Canon-glass, aside from the reputation that goes with it. Considering the 3rd-party support, there feels like there is a sea of options. I jumped at it, due to getting a really great ebay price R6 + 24-105 4-7.1 = @$2400 w/tax. It reminded me, of when I got my K-1 and had to basically build an entirely new lens kit again... starting with the DFA 24-105. Seemed fitting. In terms of investment, I don't really buy lenses like that, where you just buy them all at once. I just add them here and there until I fill out the focal range I want. I know that my next purchase will be the 50 STM 1.8. Though not the top IQ, from the reviews I've seen, it is well worth the $200 or so that it costs (the fact that my current Pentax doesn't have a 50mm is also a plus). Even if I upgrade, it feels no-brainer as it would allow me to experiment with some of the faster aperture capabilities. I want to get a K to RF adapter, if that's possible to transfer over some lenses with MF. After that, I plan to convert my Sigma 35 1.4 Art from K-Mount to EF, and get the adapter. Not sure if anyone has thoughts on if the control ring is worth it? I figured by then, after playing around with the 24-105 focal range, I'll have a better idea of what I want next. EF vs RF. I know that I want something Telephoto, so thank you @surfar for those suggestions. As someone who shoots portraits, I want to get something that will allow me to utilize that eye-AF a little more. Been looking at the AF-Rokinon 85 1.4. I don't know where things will take me after that. As I said, that I plan on keeping my Pentax gear for the more slow times... and I feel pretty good about using my Pentax stuff for Wide-Angle moments. I keep going back and forth about the 35 1.4 convert because I really like it on my K-1 for Astro. Or maybe, like J. Bloomfield states in his video, I might realize that I don't really need all of those different lenses (probably will want something tele though).

Sadly, I haven't really gotten that much opportunities to really test this camera (or really shoot with anything really). Moreso due to my own reluctance to go outside my own apartment really. I have a family downstairs that I interact with heavily throughout the week, and if I get sick, they're bound to get sick too As a teacher, we're pretty close to having our turn come up, so I'm trying to be smart. Learning that my apartment has not really been a locale for my photography... motivation to change. Things will pick up soon though. Kind of funny, that my school is apparently planning on running every sport/event over a 2-3 month span, starting in March or so. [fall/winter/spring all together] Looking forward to seeing how things go then... report back with photos and such, for those who might be interested.
02-03-2021, 07:42 PM - 1 Like   #64
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02-04-2021, 12:38 AM - 1 Like   #65
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Yeah, I can learly see why you have gone there and about lenses and all. I do think that even with pentax if you are not shooting with premium lenses, result will be okay. Best quality is when you use the best. Camera is one important component but it is not what does make it shine. Congrats on your deal.


(did not knowthat there was K-RF adapter. this migh be the key)

other than that. I'd keep only the lenses you do enjoy using with pentax and dedicate that system for that and sell the rest. Put that money towards premium EF lenses or even couple of RF. Rent the rest, also Dan seems to do so for his Canon stuff. Now you can choose...being kind a fresh start.

I have DFA 28-105 and while I do think that it is very nice, it is more handy than anyhig else. You have to stop it down to get result close to what I get from my DFA * 70-200 even just a tad stopped down. And that is what it is. I also have DFA 15-30 and it is way better. Althou not at the same class as DFA*. Some others have suggested the same and that is reasonable.

I'm going to get how ever that K-3 mk. 3 and replace my 15-30 to 11-18 just because it is DA* lens and propably going to upgrade my 16-50 with PLM version coming up to get most out form K-33 focus system. AND try to get most out of that video they put there. For more high quality video I'm going to upgrade one of my(i have 2 which I use to make high quality video my pentax don't offer) BMPCC 4K to a proper video cam(still undecided of which it is goin to be and waiting for Covid to go away(economy in my case will get better after)).

I'll be looking and will be interested of findings you make wih your camera!

edit: I do also have K-1 and love it and agree on it's restrictions when shooting fast pace and when in need of faster AF.

Last edited by repaap; 02-04-2021 at 01:39 AM.
02-04-2021, 12:57 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
OK, point taken. However, I don't have time today to play editor, so rather than that I'll just say:
@normhead and @Dan Rentea please cut it out or thread bans will follow.
I know that the simple solution is to ban people or close threads, but this doesn't solve the problems, on the contrary because, as someone suggested, it's also the easiest solution for some members to close a thread. It's a little more time consuming to look for solutions starting from initial comments of both people you're referring to. In this particular topic you will see when Normhead started to comment in this topic and how he did it during 2 pages and you can also see my first comment (comment no. 26) which wasn't a response to him, but to OP.

I understand if I have to be banned if there are reasons for such actions, but I disagree completely with the idea of trashing a person, questioning his photographic skills or with hijacking a thread by implying there are conspiracies against Pentax due to the release of K-3 Mark III. To this sort of "bullying" I do respond as civilized I can because ignoring these comments makes 2 "victims": the ones posting their thoughts and the ones who trash people thoughts also because they will continue to think it's normal to act like that.

I hope you can understand this intervention of mine, even if you consider you have to take action for replying.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 02-04-2021 at 01:03 AM.
02-04-2021, 01:53 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
(did not knowthat there was K-RF adapter. this migh be the key)
its Manual focus only, plenty to choose from onEEE bay

02-04-2021, 03:41 AM - 8 Likes   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I know that the simple solution is to ban people or close threads, but this doesn't solve the problems, on the contrary because, as someone suggested, it's also the easiest solution for some members to close a thread. It's a little more time consuming to look for solutions starting from initial comments of both people you're referring to. In this particular topic you will see when Normhead started to comment in this topic and how he did it during 2 pages and you can also see my first comment (comment no. 26) which wasn't a response to him, but to OP.

I understand if I have to be banned if there are reasons for such actions, but I disagree completely with the idea of trashing a person, questioning his photographic skills or with hijacking a thread by implying there are conspiracies against Pentax due to the release of K-3 Mark III. To this sort of "bullying" I do respond as civilized I can because ignoring these comments makes 2 "victims": the ones posting their thoughts and the ones who trash people thoughts also because they will continue to think it's normal to act like that.

I hope you can understand this intervention of mine, even if you consider you have to take action for replying.
Dan, you make very valid points, but the fact remains that, while you and Norm choose to continue to engage with each other, that is taking away others enjoyment from reading this thread in this part of the forum. So, I'll ask nicely: (and this goes for both of you) Can you two please put each other on ignore (a function available to you as members) or otherwise choose to not correspond with each other in this thread. The "debate" is simply distracting and it's clear that neither of you will convince the other of your point of view. The reason I posted in thread was because I did not want to wade in with a big stick and issue thread bans and close threads.
02-04-2021, 04:25 AM - 1 Like   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Dan, you make very valid points, but the fact remains that, while you and Norm choose to continue to engage with each other, that is taking away others enjoyment from reading this thread in this part of the forum. So, I'll ask nicely: (and this goes for both of you) Can you two please put each other on ignore (a function available to you as members) or otherwise choose to not correspond with each other in this thread. The "debate" is simply distracting and it's clear that neither of you will convince the other of your point of view. The reason I posted in thread was because I did not want to wade in with a big stick and issue thread bans and close threads.
Done that more than a year ago (the ignoring button in Normhead case). What I didn't knew is that people from the ignore list can still see and comment on my posts and when I removed him from the ignore list to check if it's true that he can see my comments, I saw some comments of him addressed to me in some topics I was also participating. I think I would have liked if he simply can't see my comments (as I can't see his) once he's in my ignore list because it's even worse when someone it's talking to you and you're not aware of it...

But, if I have only the ignore button available, I reactivated it again in his case.
02-04-2021, 06:05 AM - 1 Like   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by landofcourtness Quote
Hello, [this is a lot longer than I wanted, feel free to skip that part in the middle]

What this thread has somewhat de-volved into is also slightly why I was hesitant to post this kind of thing. I find it funny that some wonder if there is some kind of 'conspiracy' or if I am somehow trolling... even though I posted links to videos of results from using the camera over multiple years
You're good.

FWIW the upcoming K3III may also have been a great match for the shooting you have in mind. Good burst rate, much improved AF, finally up to standards video, compact form factor, excellent low-light performance and an even better viewfinder. I wouldn't be so quick to decide Pentax wasn't bringing you a camera matched to your needs. From everything reported so far it's built as an action camera.

Big plus too: You already had glass for one, and a vibrant Pentax community willing to offer advice.

These kinds of discussions are helpful learning opportunities as long as everyone plays good together, and each one's personal gear decisions are respected. We all buy with our own money and don't need to be told we spent it foolishly which is where some threads goes awry.

Last edited by gatorguy; 02-04-2021 at 07:38 AM.
02-04-2021, 06:32 AM - 2 Likes   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Yeah, I can learly see why you have gone there and about lenses and all. I do think that even with pentax if you are not shooting with premium lenses, result will be okay.Best quality is when you use the best. Camera is one important component but it is not what does make it shine. Congrats on your deal.
Manufacturers would like you to believe that.
Best photos still happen when you are like @Normhead and know what you are doing - that is still the ultimate goal.
Lousy photographer will take mediocre photos with expensive equipment, and skilled photographer can take great photographs with cheap equipment.

The equipment does set something of a ceiling. though; I could have never ‘stopped’ a speeding Zephyr train with my “Instamatic 100” no matter how good I had become.

Last edited by reh321; 02-04-2021 at 06:43 AM.
02-04-2021, 07:02 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Manufacturers would like you to believe that.
Best photos still happen when you are like @Normhead and know what you are doing - that is still the ultimate goal.
Lousy photographer will take mediocre photos with expensive equipment, and skilled photographer can take great photographs with cheap equipment.

The equipment does set something of a ceiling. though; I could have never ‘stopped’ a speeding Zephyr train with my “Instamatic 100” no matter how good I had become.
Sure. But as you said. Some gear can take you just ’that’ far. No further. Depends what is enough.
02-04-2021, 07:43 AM - 2 Likes   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Some gear can take you just ’that’ far.
It is a question of having an open mind to reality.

a) the number of times I have seen a user being limited by current & upper end gear is less than 1 in 2000 here. Yes it can happen, but that is very, very exotic. I remember a single case and that was someone who has completely irrelevant personal requirements versus my own or what I perceive as the majority of real photo enthusiasts.

b) on the other side I see loads of people complaining, who have a long way up to being even mediocre skilled. This includes quite some commercial shooters with elevated self-perception who tend to wallow in self-pity if their skill shortcomings are addressed.Yes, it takes a grown up person to admit ones own faults.

Nota bene: I talk about photography. Not video. This is a photography forum after all.

Nota bene 2: If someone wants a new shiny toy (I do often enough) then feel free. But do not try to spin the narrative of "need" around it. The truth is all too transparent.
02-04-2021, 07:50 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by landofcourtness Quote
To respond to some confusion in my original post, by c.a.m:
Thanks for taking the time to provide more detail. I think I understand your meaning now.

QuoteOriginally posted by landofcourtness Quote
In terms of the single-point portion. I used to try and shoot by just letting the camera just AF using all of its points (sometimes it's better, sometimes not as it wouldn't always choose what I wanted) ... but sometimes I found that the best way to focus to let that center-point be what its focusing on
Agreed, using a multi-point AF mode in a congested scene can often lead to mis-focused subjects.


Not sure if you've delved into the various AF settings for the R6, but here's a short video from Canon that explains the basic AF methods: Canon Knowledge Base - EOS R Quick Tips: AF Method ?Choices and Selection

You might find some useful information in the EOS R6 Advanced User Guide, available here: Canon U.S.A., Inc. | EOS R



QuoteOriginally posted by landofcourtness Quote
Sadly, I haven't really gotten that much opportunities to really test this camera (or really shoot with anything really). Moreso due to my own reluctance to go outside my own apartment really.
I know the feeling! But, good on you for looking out for your neighbors. We'll eventually get back to 'normal'.

Cheers,

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 02-04-2021 at 08:28 AM.
02-04-2021, 08:30 AM - 1 Like   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
It is a question of having an open mind to reality.

a) the number of times I have seen a user being limited by current & upper end gear is less than 1 in 2000 here
...........................

Nota bene 2: If someone wants a new shiny toy (I do often enough) then feel free. But do not try to spin the narrative of "need" around it. The truth is all too transparent.
My family lived in Chicagoland in the 1950's; we moved to South Bend IN in 1960. In December 1966, in the middle of my sophomore year at Purdue Univ, I was in downtown Lafayette IN with a friend when we saw a nifty-looking model of a 'Burlington' locomotive in a hobby shop window; in later years I realized they had combined the silver paint that went with understated lettering of CB&Q passenger locomotives with the lettering that went with the gray paint of CB&Q freight locomotives, but our walk back to campus included comments such as friend: "TYCO wouldn't just make that up" - I: "Even though I was raised near the Burlington's mainline, I never saw a locomotive like that". A few months later the Purdue RR club hosted a slide show by noted RR photographer Jim Boyd, and I realized that actual photographs of what I had seen would be more persuasive than my words. In August 1968 my brother and I were in Cicero IL when I photographed an incoming Burlington Zephyr from the Laramie Street bridge; even though we were close to Chicago, and the Zephyr was undoubtedly slowing down from its speed limit of 79, my photos were unsatisfactory to me {in recent years, I made the composite below}. In March or April of 1969, the Kodak "Instamatic 100" that had seen me through high school and college died of shutter failure {the only time I had a camera's shutter give up on me}, so a few months later I purchased a Yashica range-finder camera {so I could control shutter speed} at a local drugstore that was getting out of business.

In May 1973, I celebrated the end of grad student finals by taking a drive in southern Illinois; I saw an interesting station from a bridge, but I couldn't photograph the whole thing with my Yashica's 45mm lens, and the bridge got in the way if I backed up; later I purchased a Pentax SLR, because it allowed we to use wider lenses. I have spent the forty years since then how to use what I have.

So, yes, this all depends on what one is attempting to photograph, and whether this is a "need" - but I know from personal experience that getting the photograph you want is a combination of the equipment you have at hand and your skill in using it.
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