Nikon Z fc

**pres589** · 07-11-2021, 04:19 AM

The biggest issue I have with "too many dials" is that it takes away top deck real estate that could have been used for an LCD screen to give the user quick information that might otherwise be missed or drive them to fire up the screen on the back. Good way to quickly catch a setting or mode that isn't what the situation calls for. Nikon only showing f-stop on the deck in an on-purpose display on the Zfc is kind of a funny compromise. Maybe a strip across the deck showing ISO and exposure as well would have been useful for when the camera is automating those aspects?

Their implementation of the PASM control seems smart and unobtrusive. Odd to see people complain about it here. I mean, is it as bad as this?

Kunzite · 07-11-2021, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by pres589

Their implementation of the PASM control seems smart and unobtrusive. Odd to see people complain about it here. I mean, is it as bad as this?

Actually I don't think the OVF/LV/Movie dial on the Pentax is bad at all.
First, I hope we agree that having a quick way to identify which mode are you in, and to switch between them is essential. I'm not sure the alternative - having 2 separate LV and Movie buttons - is actually better.

Sure, if we look at that dial, it seems like a waste of space; but, what else would you put on it?
Actually, if you put anything else, you'd have the camera being in a mode which is neither OVF, nor LV, nor movie mode - which wouldn't make any sense.

OTOH the PASM control on this Nikon... they're trying to combine two completely different interface styles. I'd call it schizophrenic.
But I wonder if it's a bad idea; you see, one could satisfy his nostalgia after the old school cameras while using the modern automated modes

Wheatfield · 07-11-2021, 10:05 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pres589

The biggest issue I have with "too many dials" is that it takes away top deck real estate that could have been used for an LCD screen to give the user quick information that might otherwise be missed or drive them to fire up the screen on the back. Good way to quickly catch a setting or mode that isn't what the situation calls for. Nikon only showing f-stop on the deck in an on-purpose display on the Zfc is kind of a funny compromise. Maybe a strip across the deck showing ISO and exposure as well would have been useful for when the camera is automating those aspects?

Their implementation of the PASM control seems smart and unobtrusive. Odd to see people complain about it here. I mean, is it as bad as this?

If one is going to make an analog style camera rather than a melted plastic blob digital, then go all in.
The Fuji method removed any need for a top plate LCD with regard to getting setting information. The lens is either on A or it isn't. If it's on A, you can see at a glance where it's set. Same with the shutter speed and ISO dials.

Do you want full program? Set the shutter and aperture to A. Want aperture preferred auto? Leave the shutter on A and move the aperture to where you want it. With a PASM dial, it's move the dial to the exposure mode you want, then set the control to are using to where you want it.
The PASM dial is one more step....

larryaustin3 · 07-22-2021, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

The Df seemed to me to be too large to pull off the nostalgia trick convincingly, and this new body may well satisfy that segment,

I remember picking up a Df in a camera store and thought it was a massive brick of a camera. Judging from the criticism of the Z fc, Nikonians want a full frame retro camera, but the Df failed, so I don't blame Nikon for taking a second swipe at the retro market with a much smaller APS-C version. The MX-1 was another stylish Pentax camera. Could Pentax fit a bigger sensor in that with a K-mount?

If the Z fc reverses Nikon's fortunes and sells really well, how could Pentax resist putting out a digital K-1000, MX-1 ILC, KPii, or K-02 with analog dials?

**RobA_Oz** · 07-22-2021, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by pres589

Their implementation of the PASM control seems smart and unobtrusive. Odd to see people complain about it here. I mean, is it as bad as this?

If they’d placed the three modes equally spaced around the dial, would you regard it as bad?

I have one of those, and it’s easier to use than looking for separate buttons. I thought it was an odd thing after the K-1’s layout, but not after I’d actually used it. Now I have, I don’t think it’s bad at all.

**Wheatridger** · 07-23-2021, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Serkevan

Nikon made a Fuji!

I took the images from DPR, I'm sorry everyone

Nikon Z fc | Interchangeable Lens Mirrorless Camera Here's the product page.

-21 MP APS-C sensor.
-9 fps (11 technically, but 14-bit RAW is capped at 9)
-2.36 MDot EVF (ouch).
-Fully articulated screen à la K-70
-Alloy body, apparently aluminium dials
-900€ body only (on initial sale, MRSP 1000€), add 250€ for a 28mm f/2.8 new plastey widey styled like the old E series or 150€ for a silver 16-50 kit zoom.
-Half a dozen colours available:

What are your thoughts? That they made this one APS-C smells like directly targeting Fuji... I would have thought a FF would make more sense, since the new Z-mount 28mm is FX?

I love the colors. Can I have my next car in one of those, please? But I owned the camera this is styled after, the Nikon FM, and it wasn't that great to hold or use. The contemporary Nikon F3 HP had a much better OVF and a rudimentary handgrip. The F series were what you bought when you couldn't afford a real "F." So thumbs down for me.

---------- Post added 07-23-21 at 01:04 AM ----------

Originally posted by beholder3

I find this zfc toy camera very strange.

Who came up with the idea to invest into something that has to survive in Fujis homeland while being inferior in pretty any aspect?
If you want to attack the gorilla in the room as a smaller entrant then you have to outrun the competitor massively.

Who in drowning Nikon management thinks it is going to be commercially smart to sell a camera type which is sold for body cosmetics mainly and thus has users who do not want to change lenses or buy tons of them? The typical clientele will buy such a toy for a year and then dump it after a year or two to then buy the next fad item, regardless of brand or mount. They will certainly not buy your lenses (as if Nikon had any). And lenses is where companies can make money.

The good news for consumers is that within a year you can grab the kit bundle for under $500 as a present for your kids.
Maybe less.

I'll keep on saving my mad money for the retro digital Rolleiflex.

**pres589** · 07-23-2021, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

If they’d placed the three modes equally spaced around the dial, would you regard it as bad?

I have one of those, and it’s easier to use than looking for separate buttons. I thought it was an odd thing after the K-1’s layout, but not after I’d actually used it. Now I have, I don’t think it’s bad at all.

How often are you as a user cycling through those functions? A button with an indication on the rear LCD would have been fine and saved space. That the top deck LCD display had to shrink due to the lack of real estate would have been made less drastic with that knob gone.

The K-1 top deck layout always seemed like a step in the wrong direction to me vs. my K-5.

**RobA_Oz** · 07-23-2021, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by pres589

How often are you as a user cycling through those functions?

In the field, more than I thought I would. I carry my camera on my hip, using a sling strap, when I’m walking on rocky trails, in terrain where I’ll be alternating between the eyepiece and rear monitor quite regularly. It works for me in those situations, particularly as I can change the mode as I walk, without looking at it. I also don’t find it adversely impacts on any of the other controls, or the top LCD.

**AgentL** · 07-23-2021, 10:01 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by larryaustin3

I remember picking up a Df in a camera store and thought it was a massive brick of a camera. Judging from the criticism of the Z fc, Nikonians want a full frame retro camera, but the Df failed, so I don't blame Nikon for taking a second swipe at the retro market with a much smaller APS-C version. The MX-1 was another stylish Pentax camera. Could Pentax fit a bigger sensor in that with a K-mount?

If the Z fc reverses Nikon's fortunes and sells really well, how could Pentax resist putting out a digital K-1000, MX-1 ILC, KPii, or K-02 with analog dials?

Just an updated fixed lens MX-2 would be nice!

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07-11-2021, 04:19 AM	#46
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	The biggest issue I have with "too many dials" is that it takes away top deck real estate that could have been used for an LCD screen to give the user quick information that might otherwise be missed or drive them to fire up the screen on the back. Good way to quickly catch a setting or mode that isn't what the situation calls for. Nikon only showing f-stop on the deck in an on-purpose display on the Zfc is kind of a funny compromise. Maybe a strip across the deck showing ISO and exposure as well would have been useful for when the camera is automating those aspects? Their implementation of the PASM control seems smart and unobtrusive. Odd to see people complain about it here. I mean, is it as bad as this?

07-11-2021, 08:53 AM	#47
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by pres589 Their implementation of the PASM control seems smart and unobtrusive. Odd to see people complain about it here. I mean, is it as bad as this? Actually I don't think the OVF/LV/Movie dial on the Pentax is bad at all. First, I hope we agree that having a quick way to identify which mode are you in, and to switch between them is essential. I'm not sure the alternative - having 2 separate LV and Movie buttons - is actually better. Sure, if we look at that dial, it seems like a waste of space; but, what else would you put on it? Actually, if you put anything else, you'd have the camera being in a mode which is neither OVF, nor LV, nor movie mode - which wouldn't make any sense. OTOH the PASM control on this Nikon... they're trying to combine two completely different interface styles. I'd call it schizophrenic. But I wonder if it's a bad idea; you see, one could satisfy his nostalgia after the old school cameras while using the modern automated modes

07-11-2021, 10:05 AM - 1 Like	#48
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by pres589 The biggest issue I have with "too many dials" is that it takes away top deck real estate that could have been used for an LCD screen to give the user quick information that might otherwise be missed or drive them to fire up the screen on the back. Good way to quickly catch a setting or mode that isn't what the situation calls for. Nikon only showing f-stop on the deck in an on-purpose display on the Zfc is kind of a funny compromise. Maybe a strip across the deck showing ISO and exposure as well would have been useful for when the camera is automating those aspects? Their implementation of the PASM control seems smart and unobtrusive. Odd to see people complain about it here. I mean, is it as bad as this? If one is going to make an analog style camera rather than a melted plastic blob digital, then go all in. The Fuji method removed any need for a top plate LCD with regard to getting setting information. The lens is either on A or it isn't. If it's on A, you can see at a glance where it's set. Same with the shutter speed and ISO dials. Do you want full program? Set the shutter and aperture to A. Want aperture preferred auto? Leave the shutter on A and move the aperture to where you want it. With a PASM dial, it's move the dial to the exposure mode you want, then set the control to are using to where you want it. The PASM dial is one more step....

07-22-2021, 02:23 PM	#49
larryaustin3 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 105	Originally posted by RobA_Oz The Df seemed to me to be too large to pull off the nostalgia trick convincingly, and this new body may well satisfy that segment, I remember picking up a Df in a camera store and thought it was a massive brick of a camera. Judging from the criticism of the Z fc, Nikonians want a full frame retro camera, but the Df failed, so I don't blame Nikon for taking a second swipe at the retro market with a much smaller APS-C version. The MX-1 was another stylish Pentax camera. Could Pentax fit a bigger sensor in that with a K-mount? If the Z fc reverses Nikon's fortunes and sells really well, how could Pentax resist putting out a digital K-1000, MX-1 ILC, KPii, or K-02 with analog dials?

07-22-2021, 03:03 PM	#50
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by pres589 Their implementation of the PASM control seems smart and unobtrusive. Odd to see people complain about it here. I mean, is it as bad as this? If they’d placed the three modes equally spaced around the dial, would you regard it as bad? I have one of those, and it’s easier to use than looking for separate buttons. I thought it was an odd thing after the K-1’s layout, but not after I’d actually used it. Now I have, I don’t think it’s bad at all.

07-23-2021, 12:03 AM	#51
Wheatridger Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Colorado Front Range Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 644	Originally posted by Serkevan Nikon made a Fuji! I took the images from DPR, I'm sorry everyone Nikon Z fc \| Interchangeable Lens Mirrorless Camera Here's the product page. -21 MP APS-C sensor. -9 fps (11 technically, but 14-bit RAW is capped at 9) -2.36 MDot EVF (ouch). -Fully articulated screen à la K-70 -Alloy body, apparently aluminium dials -900€ body only (on initial sale, MRSP 1000€), add 250€ for a 28mm f/2.8 new plastey widey styled like the old E series or 150€ for a silver 16-50 kit zoom. -Half a dozen colours available: What are your thoughts? That they made this one APS-C smells like directly targeting Fuji... I would have thought a FF would make more sense, since the new Z-mount 28mm is FX? I love the colors. Can I have my next car in one of those, please? But I owned the camera this is styled after, the Nikon FM, and it wasn't that great to hold or use. The contemporary Nikon F3 HP had a much better OVF and a rudimentary handgrip. The F series were what you bought when you couldn't afford a real "F." So thumbs down for me. ---------- Post added 07-23-21 at 01:04 AM ---------- Originally posted by beholder3 I find this zfc toy camera very strange. Who came up with the idea to invest into something that has to survive in Fujis homeland while being inferior in pretty any aspect? If you want to attack the gorilla in the room as a smaller entrant then you have to outrun the competitor massively. Who in drowning Nikon management thinks it is going to be commercially smart to sell a camera type which is sold for body cosmetics mainly and thus has users who do not want to change lenses or buy tons of them? The typical clientele will buy such a toy for a year and then dump it after a year or two to then buy the next fad item, regardless of brand or mount. They will certainly not buy your lenses (as if Nikon had any). And lenses is where companies can make money. The good news for consumers is that within a year you can grab the kit bundle for under $500 as a present for your kids. Maybe less. I'll keep on saving my mad money for the retro digital Rolleiflex.

07-23-2021, 05:25 AM	#52
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	Originally posted by RobA_Oz If they’d placed the three modes equally spaced around the dial, would you regard it as bad? I have one of those, and it’s easier to use than looking for separate buttons. I thought it was an odd thing after the K-1’s layout, but not after I’d actually used it. Now I have, I don’t think it’s bad at all. How often are you as a user cycling through those functions? A button with an indication on the rear LCD would have been fine and saved space. That the top deck LCD display had to shrink due to the lack of real estate would have been made less drastic with that knob gone. The K-1 top deck layout always seemed like a step in the wrong direction to me vs. my K-5.

07-23-2021, 06:59 AM	#53
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by pres589 How often are you as a user cycling through those functions? In the field, more than I thought I would. I carry my camera on my hip, using a sling strap, when I’m walking on rocky trails, in terrain where I’ll be alternating between the eyepiece and rear monitor quite regularly. It works for me in those situations, particularly as I can change the mode as I walk, without looking at it. I also don’t find it adversely impacts on any of the other controls, or the top LCD.

07-23-2021, 10:01 AM - 1 Like	#54
AgentL Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,756	Originally posted by larryaustin3 I remember picking up a Df in a camera store and thought it was a massive brick of a camera. Judging from the criticism of the Z fc, Nikonians want a full frame retro camera, but the Df failed, so I don't blame Nikon for taking a second swipe at the retro market with a much smaller APS-C version. The MX-1 was another stylish Pentax camera. Could Pentax fit a bigger sensor in that with a K-mount? If the Z fc reverses Nikon's fortunes and sells really well, how could Pentax resist putting out a digital K-1000, MX-1 ILC, KPii, or K-02 with analog dials? Just an updated fixed lens MX-2 would be nice!