[cdd29]

Interesting news from the Fuji camp:
FUJIFILM GFX 50S II: Sleek & Fast Mirrorless Medium Format | B&H Explora

[biz-engineer]

Fuji don't have a FF lineup. This 50S II and new (low cost) kit lens are designed to offer an upgrade path to their Fuji X user base and target the FF market segment at similar prices. Pentax was there many years ago, that same sensor was developed Pentax for the 645z no? Knowing that there are new FF lenses in the Pentax lens roadmap (and no MF lens roadmap available), it would make sense that Ricoh work on the successor of the Pentax K1 II.

[house]

The MF gamble is probably a good one. Apsc + MF is a pretty good combo, keeps Fuji different.

I like how they keep improving and iterating their lenses. Would have been nice to have a closer look at that tilt shift. Could just make out a huge lump of a lens.

[VSTAR]

So who exactly is the ideal purchaser for this camera? Camera body $4k + lens extra….51mp, review of focussing ability not great, not meant for professional videos…?
Fuji coming out with a digital MF made sense, not sure why there are so many different versions.

[biz-engineer]

not sure why there are so many different versions.

The answer I can think of: every new release is an opportunity to advertise, to be visible and to trigger new sales, even if new camera models are basically refactored with existing design subsystems (body frame work from GFX100s, IBIS block and processor from GFX100s and sensor from GFX50s). They still have to pay forward to build up inventory in retail channels, which may even exceed sales, but pre-orders and having some products not available off the shelf may help to minimize the cost and risks associated with inventory. Interesting to me, I noticed online users claimed that the 51Mp sensor made by Sony and used in the 645z was End-Of-Life and discontinued by Sony, and this GFX50S II proves online user claim to be just wrong.

[house]

So who exactly is the ideal purchaser for this camera? Camera body $4k + lens extra….51mp, review of focussing ability not great, not meant for professional videos…?
Fuji coming out with a digital MF made sense, not sure why there are so many different versions.

Fuji is pushing so many variants of their bodies for apsc as well. Most share the same tech so as biz suggests it's probably a good way of keeping the momentum up. I also means users can ho and hum within the lineup finding what they believe is the perfect match for them. This kind of stuff is probably very good in shops, as it seems to be what sales people are all about, but I'm not sure how useful it is online.

Compared to the 645z the 50S is probably as fast focusing and as good at video with similar IQ for a lot less money... It's clear though that the cost and handling means people are starting to talk about features and comparing to FF. Strangely being huge slow hulks of cameras was probably good for MF. Keeping it different enough to avoid comparisons.

[awscreo]

Dang. 4k is low enough to get interesting.. 50mp seems to be enough for anything I want from my raws, I don't think I'd be interested in 100mp raw files, especially storing them. Would definitely love to check out test raws when they land, see how big of a difference is vs K-1

[KiloHotelphoto]

I noticed online users claimed that the 51Mp sensor made by Sony and used in the 645z was End-Of-Life and discontinued by Sony, and this GFX50S II proves online user claim to be just wrong.

Maybe Fuji had stock left over from the 50r and 50s line. Or maybe Sony had a large inventory they wanted to clear out and Fuji got a great deal since nobody else was buying them.

[JPT]

I think this camera is quite attractive as an overall package. If I had $5,000 to try out a new camera system, I'd be much more interested in this camera than the full frame mirrorless cameras that cost almost the same with less improvement over APS-C.

But having said that, I think it shows that Pentax is not that far behind with the 645z. It was ahead of its time.
- The 645z is available for around $5,000 now, so the price difference is not that much
- The 50mp sensor is clearly still current (except with Pentax you could have been using it for seven years by now)
- When you line up the specs of GFX 50s II and the 645z, they are almost the same. The notable advantage of the GFX is IBIS, but otherwise it is ancillary things like screen resolution and wifi

Pentax has said, and I agree, that Fujifilm entering the cropped MF market is good for them. It brings the sensor format further into the mainstream and Pentax could be seen as an alternative fo more people - especially those who tend to use a tripod, because it's the one system that is primarily designed for tripod use. It also probably brings the price of sensors down.

It will be interesting to see what Pentax will do for the next model. They have already said that they will focus on image quality and that they are looking at ways to reduce to body's bulk and weight (both comments in the context of 645).

[KiloHotelphoto]

When you line up the specs of GFX 50s II and the 645z, they are almost the same. The notable advantage of the GFX is IBIS, but otherwise it is ancillary things like screen resolution and wifi

The Fuji is also a lot smaller.

[JPT]

The Fuji is also a lot smaller.

It's a siginificant difference, but I think Pentax would say that their K-1 series is designed primarily for hi-resolution handheld photography, while the 645z is designed on the assumption that it is usually going to be tripod mounted. Fujifilm is closer to an all-purpose camera because they are trying to appeal to both kings of user in one series.

What I meant was that given what the 645z is, it is still relevant in terms of technology, even though it must be near the end of its product cycle and close to replacement by now.

There seems to be a lot of space in the 645z body behind the sensor plane and the back screen which most of the GFX cameras do away with. I think Pentax could and will reduce the size in the next iteration. But it's never going to be quite as small as GFX and neither does it have to be as long as the K-1 exists for handheld photography.

[KiloHotelphoto]

The mirror box is huge on the 645Z and that's something Ricoh is sticking with, and honestly I would be shocked if they came out with another medium format body.

[biz-engineer]

Dang. 4k is low enough to get interesting.. 50mp seems to be enough for anything I want from my raws, I don't think I'd be interested in 100mp raw files, especially storing them. Would definitely love to check out test raws when they land, see how big of a difference is vs K-1

The mirror box is huge on the 645Z and that's something Ricoh is sticking with, and honestly I would be shocked if they came out with another medium format body.

IMO, this is unlikely to happen. As I said, given the Pentax FF lens roadmap, Ricoh is likely to come up with a higher resolution FF camera reusing tech from the K3 III (101 points phase detect AF, better OVF, faster processor, UHS-II cards, BSI sensor) which will make the old 51Mpixel MF tech irrelevant, especially knowing how outstanding the D-FA* prime glass is compared to old FA 645 glass. It seems to me that Ricoh have decided to go the FF + APSC route and cannot maintain three systems with new lenses, new bodies etc. I'm likely to wait for a K1 III (with Sony A7RIV style sensor) because I already have a bunch of DFA glass, it's gonna be a lot cheaper than switching to 51Mp MF system, will give me better AF tracking, faster frame rates and still about 52Mp from 4:3 crops.

[repaap]

It is interesting thing this new Fujifilm 50SII, Basically same as previous model, but with IS. Those consumer grade zooms seem nice way to lure some people in, ofcourse you'll get best out of this with top end lenses.

This is for people who would like to dip their feet in MF water...thou, I'm wondering why I'd go for this if used 50S can be had for half for what this goes and this will offer nothing more than those minor updates and this new thing is going to push that price even more? You'll need the best lenses to be able to push most out of this thing anyway, unless you want that super thin Dof with adapted FF lenses?

What you guys say about next pentax updates, I do also believe that K-1III with K-3III innards revamped is likely to happen and that will lift K-1 on an other level, really. Now should they be able to put those things so that they will work properly to new 645 Z II they would get past Fujifilm IMO. Only thing would be that they should add more 645 lenses, but FF lineup seems to be in good enough shape already and who knows 45-80 and 80-160 updats migh be around the corner, just like DA*16-50 was updated and lifted high up from the what it was.

[house]

The form factor, controls and design are probably a big draw in addition to the ibis. I've said it before but I think those will become more and more important.